Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1
OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
Yet another example of why Kyoto is worthless
    #5783098 - 06/23/06 06:34 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

One of the few things that Bush has done that I agree with is not signing the Kyoto agreement. Here is a great example of why I don't like the agreement:

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg19025574.000&feedId=online-news_rss20

Quote:

MANY governments, including some that claim to be leading the fight against global warming, are harbouring a dirty little secret. These countries are emitting far more greenhouse gas than they say they are, a fact that threatens to undermine not only the shaky Kyoto protocol but also the new multibillion-dollar market in carbon trading.

Under Kyoto, each government calculates how much carbon dioxide, methane and nitrous oxide its country emits by adding together estimated emissions from individual sources. These so-called "bottom-up" estimates have long been accepted by atmospheric scientists, even though they have never been independently audited.

Now two teams that have monitored concentrations of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere say they have convincing evidence that the figures reported by many countries are wrong, especially for methane. Among the worst offenders are the UK, which may be emitting 92 per cent more methane than it declares under the Kyoto protocol, and France, which may be emitting 47 per cent more.




... and if you make it to the bottom of the article:

Quote:

Some western governments, say the scientists, have been reluctant to set up permanent monitoring stations. "Of all the G8 nations, the UK does the least," says Nisbet, who runs the only permanent monitoring point in England, from his lab near Egham, on the south-western fringes of London. The longest-running CO2 monitoring point on British soil, in the Shetland Islands, was run by Australia till 2001 and is now funded by Germany. France runs a network of monitors on its remote island territories round the world, but the UK government refuses pleas for it to do likewise on territories such as Ascension Island or South Georgia in the remote South Atlantic, or the Chagos Islands in the Indian Ocean. The European Union recently shut down its pioneering programme of measuring atmospheric methane across the continent. "Ironically, the best monitoring is done by the US and Australia, which are both in denial over Kyoto," Nisbet says.





I find it disgusting that various countries fault the US for not signing the agreement, then have the audacity to lie about their own levels of pollution.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblekaiowas
lest we baguette
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
Re: Yet another example of why Kyoto is worthless [Re: Seuss]
    #5783302 - 06/23/06 09:35 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

i did an essay for my environmental studies class on the Kyoto Protocol that leads to some interesting conclusions (though not surprising).  if you want to read it I'll send it to you, fully referenced to boot!

sucks about the methane since it's the worst trap of emissions out of all of GHG. 

Look at the systm the US has and it's just as shit.  Greenhouse gas intensity(GHGI) is pure rubbish.  Greenhouse gas intensity is greenhouse gas emissions divided by GDP. The US version wants to decrease this GHGI by 18% in ten years. In my essay I found that between 1990-2000 (before the new policy) GHGI went down by 24%!  in this time span actual GHG emissions of CO2 equivalent went up by 12.8%.  this is because GDP always outgrows GHG emissions! 12.8% increase from 1990 levels is quite a lot considering how big a proportion of the global CO2eq emissions the US is involved in. 

it would not have made a difference if KYOTO was signed or not.  The EU-25 will not meet its target, China and India do not have one since they are exempt from Kyoto emission standards, and Japan is havign a tough time as well. 

if we are worried about emissions  then what needs to happen is that cars need to be much more fuel efficient than they are now.

my opinion anyway :wink:


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: Yet another example of why Kyoto is worthless [Re: Seuss]
    #5783436 - 06/23/06 10:43 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Yet another example of why Kyoto is worthless

Is it more worthless than doing nothing tho?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: Yet another example of why Kyoto is worthless [Re: kaiowas]
    #5783443 - 06/23/06 10:45 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

if we are worried about emissions then what needs to happen is that cars need to be much more fuel efficient than they are now.


The situation in the UK is that just 5 companies produce more pollution than all the cars in the country. Industry needs to be controlled now. There's no time to waste. Our grandchildren are going to be in a desperate situation because a few "superstars of business" didn't give a fuck about anything but their profit levels.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
Re: Yet another example of why Kyoto is worthless [Re: kaiowas]
    #5783559 - 06/23/06 11:39 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

> Look at the systm the US has and it's just as shit.

I won't argue with you there. I am not claiming that the US is doing any better... but at least the US isn't pretending while blaming others.

> is it more worthless than doing nothing tho?

Yes, it is! With nothing in place, people recognize there is a problem. With something in place, and countries being dishonest, people think something good is happening when in fact the situation is getting worse.

My gripe against Kyoto has always been that it does absolutely nothing to help the pollution problem while making people feel good that they are doing something all the while playing Robin Hood between rich and poor countries.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibletrendalM
J♠
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada Flag
Re: Yet another example of why Kyoto is worthless [Re: Seuss]
    #5783616 - 06/23/06 12:02 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I find it disgusting that various countries fault the US for not signing the agreement, then have the audacity to lie about their own levels of pollution.

Where in the article does it say they have "lied" about their emissions?

Because after reading it, I didn't get that impression at all.

The impression I got is that the estimates have been wrong, and because of the "bottom-up" estimate system being used to determine total emissions their totals can be off by almost 100%.

I don't know where you got "lie" from, though.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
Re: Yet another example of why Kyoto is worthless [Re: trendal]
    #5791651 - 06/26/06 04:50 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

When a countries emmissions are detected by a third party to be 50% to 90% more than what that country declares, then I consider that country to be telling a lie.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: Yet another example of why Kyoto is worthless [Re: Seuss]
    #5791656 - 06/26/06 05:01 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Maybe

But then again if we go by Phred and the other right-wingers standards of what constitutes a lie it probably isn't. Bush assured us there was a threat from WMD. There were none. But apparantly that isn't a lie  :laugh:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
Re: Yet another example of why Kyoto is worthless [Re: Alex213]
    #5791713 - 06/26/06 06:20 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Oh sure, pick on Phred...  :wink:

I honestly feel that Bush lied to me about the WMDs in Iraq... but that is a different topic for a different thread.  Just because Bush lies does not mean the rest of the world should follow his example.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1

Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Kyoto luvdemshrooms 584 11 12/31/05 07:13 PM
by Catalysis
* Kyoto Protocal MokshaMan 921 2 12/01/01 10:28 PM
by Lenore
* Kyoto debunked. luvdemshrooms 554 7 11/05/03 04:56 PM
by luvdemshrooms
* Kyoto Protocol: Yay or Nay. meatcakeman 448 9 03/26/09 09:38 PM
by dill705
* The Kyoto Accord....a retraction
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
RonoS 3,838 91 05/03/06 09:35 PM
by Catalysis
* Time to go back to Kyoto
( 1 2 3 all )
Xlea321 1,975 56 01/15/04 03:09 AM
by luvdemshrooms
* Join the Int'l Movement to DEMAND Inquiry into 9-1
( 1 2 all )
YouInfoIt 5,686 31 01/01/02 01:24 AM
by Phred
* Kyoto newuser1492 410 4 11/19/04 08:18 PM
by Krishna

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil, ballsalsa
768 topic views. 1 members, 1 guests and 9 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.03 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 14 queries.