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Offlinejohnuk
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Registered: 06/13/05
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Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
Just for RogerRabit - oven baked shrooms
    #5782989 - 06/23/06 04:15 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

P. Mexican... grown using zero pressure cooking / boiling, everything was just baked in the oven or microwaved... :wink:



But yes... pressure cooking probably is the better way


Edited by johnuk (06/23/06 04:20 AM)


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InvisibleArrakis
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Registered: 03/03/04
Posts: 276
Re: Just for RogerRabit - oven baked shrooms [Re: johnuk]
    #5783050 - 06/23/06 05:57 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

:popcorn:


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Offlineretro_killa
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Re: Just for RogerRabit - oven baked shrooms [Re: Arrakis]
    #5783068 - 06/23/06 06:11 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

i like to boil my iteams :wink:


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: Just for RogerRabit - oven baked shrooms [Re: retro_killa]
    #5783168 - 06/23/06 08:00 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

nobody said it couldn't be done, its just hard to get moisture right, and hard to get consistent results.  consistency is important if you prefer the majority of your projects succeed rather than fail.  if you come up with an exact method that does give you consistent results, more power to ya. :thumbup:


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Just for RogerRabit - oven baked shrooms [Re: creamcorn]
    #5783192 - 06/23/06 08:19 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Awesome! A couple more times running that tek and you'll have enough mushies for a trip.
RR


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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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Offlinejohnuk
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Posts: 226
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
Re: Just for RogerRabit - oven baked shrooms [Re: creamcorn]
    #5783200 - 06/23/06 08:25 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I'm only really posting it because RR said...

"You can't sterilize in the oven. If you think so, do it and show us the mushrooms you grow."

"This is not even a point to argue. I've seen lots of people over the years try oven sterilization, with a 100% failure rate. I've never seen one single proponent post a picture of a mushroom grown on grains that were 'sterilized'in the oven. If you weighed 'jars' and they were the same as before the oven, you didn't even heat them to 100c, and they will contaminate."

Moisture content isn't really much of an issue if you foil cap your jars. The jar those mushrooms are growing from didn't change by a single gram in the process of baking them.

RR mentioned the idea of boiling beyond 100C by using a smooth pyrex container and distilled water, which obviously isn't realistic (as he also pointed out) since our water is mainly rye grass. It may be this point that also makes oven sterilisation not such a terrible idea, as the boiling point of a solution changes depending on what's dissolved into that solution. I believe this is termed a colligative property of solution - boiling point elevation;

(col·li·ga·tive) (kol¢[ibreve]-ga²tiv) in physical chemistry, depending on the number of molecules present in a given space, rather than on their size, molecular weight or chemical constitution. The colligative properties of solutions are osmotic pressure, boiling point elevation, freezing point depression, and vapor pressure lowering.

Since this particular jar took quite a long time to colonise, yet came out of the oven the same weight it went it, I can only assume that all the junk from the RGS dissolved in the water has altered it's boiling point. If I remember right, the oven was preheated to 130C and the jars left in there for half an hour. I would have used a higher temperature but the filters melt.

Yeah, the pressure cooker will ensure you get higher water temperatures - zero questions from me. My main reason for using the oven was firstly to test the idea that the jars will come out dry and also to give a bit of hope to those who don't have a PC.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Just for RogerRabit - oven baked shrooms [Re: johnuk]
    #5783215 - 06/23/06 08:33 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

1/2 hour in a 130C oven didn't even heat the contents of your jar nearly to the boiling point, and that's why the weight didn't change. Your batch of grass seed apparently had no bacterial endospores.

Rye grass seed will not change the boiling poing of water to any noticable degree.

Had the interior of the jars ever reached 100C they would have been totally dry. That is a fact of physics. It's cool that you got some fruits.. Again, congrats!
RR


--------------------
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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


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Offlinejohnuk
Strangerlove
Registered: 06/13/05
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Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
Re: Just for RogerRabit - oven baked shrooms [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #5783219 - 06/23/06 08:34 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Awesome!  A couple more times running that tek and you'll have enough mushies for a trip.
RR




:heart: xXx :heart: xXx :heart:

Unless this tray suddenly contaminates (which doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the way it was sterilised to begin with), I don't see why there should be any difference between it's yield and that from a PC'er.

I was thinking... if you were to incubate a medium for a short while prior to sterilisation, could you not germinate the endospores and thus make it much easier to kill them? It would be a balance between getting the hard to kill things germinated but also not multiplying too many of the easier to kill contaminations. Perhaps you could achieve this by baking once, incubating for a little while and then baking again.

I'm approaching this from a kind of 'provided the numbers are low enough' cultivation angle, as opposed to an absolute lab method.

I'll be thinking of you whilst I nibble on this :heart:


Edited by johnuk (06/23/06 09:15 AM)


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: Just for RogerRabit - oven baked shrooms [Re: johnuk]
    #5783577 - 06/23/06 11:46 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

The biggest point here IMHO is the fact that under pressure you can reach 250F. much quicker as well as full penetration in less time making it much more effective without boiling out the moisture which certainly won't dry out your substrate but it will throw off it's moisture content which will without a doubt affect yield. You guys should really look deeper and not only at the obvious (surface). As everyone knows you can cook a turkey faster with a PC. :wink: No pun intended.


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OfflineHand_of_Nog
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Re: Just for RogerRabit - oven baked shrooms [Re: hyphae]
    #5783674 - 06/23/06 12:27 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Are those growing out of perlite?


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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InvisibleFooMan
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Re: Just for RogerRabit - oven baked shrooms [Re: johnuk]
    #5783679 - 06/23/06 12:30 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

johnuk said:
I was thinking... if you were to incubate a medium for a short while prior to sterilisation, could you not germinate the endospores and thus make it much easier to kill them? It would be a balance between getting the hard to kill things germinated but also not multiplying too many of the easier to kill contaminations. Perhaps you could achieve this by baking once, incubating for a little while and then baking again.




Fractional Sterilization


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OfflineMrMolotov
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Re: Just for RogerRabit - oven baked shrooms [Re: FooMan]
    #5783805 - 06/23/06 01:26 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

yeah that looks like he cased it with perlite? maybe a verm/coir mix would get you much better yields.


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Just for RogerRabit - oven baked shrooms [Re: MrMolotov]
    #5783966 - 06/23/06 02:11 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

30 min at 130c wouldn't even bake a cake, so why would you think it actually sterilized anything?

You just lucked out and had success with unsterilized, or partially pasteurized, substrate.


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