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Invisiblecarbonhoots
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Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 1,351
Loc: BC Canada
Drive weeks after smoking weed? Get convicted of drugged driving.
    #5781860 - 06/22/06 08:34 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

"That the statute might apply to some persons who are not actually 'under the influence' of marijuana does not render the statute unconstitutional."


Michigan Supreme Court Upholds 'Zero Tolerance' Per Se DUID Law

June 22, 2006 - Traverse City, MI, USA



"It is irrelevant that a person who is no longer 'under the influence' of marijuana could be prosecuted under the statute," Court Rules

Traverse City: MI: The Michigan Supreme Court ruled 4-3 this week that the state's 'zero tolerance per se DUID (driving under the influence of drugs) law is constitutional, even if the statute might apply to drivers who are not under the influence of illegal substances. The majority held also that motorists could be prosecuted under the state's DUID law for having detectable levels of non-psychoactive cannabis metabolites in their blood - even though the presence of such metabolites are not associated with driver impairment, and are not defined under the statute as an illicit substance.

The ruling reverses a prior Appellate Court ruling that determined that the state had to demonstrate that the presence of a controlled substance in a driver's body was the proximate cause of an accident to move forward with a DUID prosecution.

Michigan's DUID law "does not require [driver] intoxication, impairment, or knowledge of that one might be intoxicated; it simply requires that the person have 'any amount' of a schedule I substance in his or her body when operating a motor vehicle," the Court opined. "It is irrelevant that an 'ordinary' marijuana smoker does not know that [cannabis metabolites] could last in his or her body for weeks. ... That the statute might apply to some persons who are not actually 'under the influence' of marijuana does not render the statute unconstitutional."

The Court further found that cannabis metabolites may be defined under the law as a Schedule I controlled substance with a "high potential for abuse," even though they have "no pharmacological effect on the body."

Michigan is one of 13 states that have enacted either per se or 'zero tolerance' per se DUID laws making it a criminal offense to operate a motor vehicle with trace levels of illicit drugs and/or drug metabolites in a driver's blood, saliva or urine.

Writing for the dissent, Judge Michael Cavanaugh opined: "Today's holding now makes criminals out of numerous Michigan citizens who, before today, were considered law-abiding, productive members of our community. Now, if a person has ever actively or passively ingested marijuana and drives ... he is [unknowingly] breaking the law, because if any amount of [cannabis metabolites] can be detected - no matter when [the marijuana] was previously ingested - he is committing a crime. The majority's interpretation, which has no rational relationship to the Legislature's genuine concerns about operating a motor vehicle while impaired, violates the United States Constitution and the Michigan Constitution."

The consolidated cases are Michigan v Derror and Michigan v Kurts.

You Are Going Directly To Jail


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  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES


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InvisibleGabbaDjS
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Registered: 04/08/01
Posts: 19,679
Loc: By The Lake
Re: Drive weeks after smoking weed? Get convicted of drugged driving. [Re: carbonhoots]
    #5782323 - 06/22/06 10:58 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Now thats fucked up.


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GabbaDj

FAMM.ORG             


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Invisiblelsdandfrisbee
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Registered: 11/09/05
Posts: 1,177
Loc: da projects
Re: Drive weeks after smoking weed? Get convicted of drugged driving. [Re: GabbaDj]
    #5782349 - 06/22/06 11:06 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

GabbaDj said:
Now thats fucked up.




I second that. :thumbdown:


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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Drive weeks after smoking weed? Get convicted of drugged driving. [Re: carbonhoots]
    #5782636 - 06/23/06 12:36 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

At what point does a judge stop caring about justice... and after that point how do we get their sorry ass fired?


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I find your lack of faith disturbing


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
Re: Drive weeks after smoking weed? Get convicted of drugged driving. [Re: carbonhoots]
    #5782665 - 06/23/06 12:46 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

doesnt look like ill be going to michigan anytime soon...

what i dont understand is that cannabis metabolites are not even included in the law...so did the court just change the law to include them from the bench??...
EDIT ..more fun w/ drugged driving laws...such laws typically also include cases where the defendant is legally allowed to use the controlled substance.. ie a prescription painkiller...this means that you can still be convicted of a DUID offense without actually violating any laws...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


Edited by Annapurna1 (06/23/06 01:43 AM)


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Invisiblecarbonhoots
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Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 1,351
Loc: BC Canada
Re: Drive weeks after smoking weed? Get convicted of drugged driving. [Re: Annapurna1]
    #5782850 - 06/23/06 02:35 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Does this sort of thing again set off alarm bells in anyone's mind here?

I mean, the system is getting pretty rotten when you can be convicted for Driving Under Influence of Drugs when the court doesn't even care if your actually under the influence of drugs.

And I imagine it's a shitter of a thing. Suspended licence, huge fine, criminal record, etc.

At what point will people start noticing the war on drugs has gone way, way too far? It's fascist in it's character.

So, if this happens to you, and you get DUID (cuz you smoked a joint last week), does that mean you are not allowed to get any student loans either (higher education act)? It it's you third offence in a three strikes state, are you going away for life?


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  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES


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OfflineRosettaStoned
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Registered: 05/29/06
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Re: Drive weeks after smoking weed? Get convicted of drugged driving. [Re: carbonhoots]
    #5782921 - 06/23/06 03:24 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I hope I'm not the only one who isn't surprised?


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"Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa


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OfflineNgalyod
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Re: Drive weeks after smoking weed? Get convicted of drugged driving. [Re: carbonhoots]
    #5783183 - 06/23/06 08:16 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I can't believe they can get away with that. It boggles the mind. Really it does.

So by that rationale one can get charged for drink driving for that beer they had 36 hours ago? No? Ok.


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OfflinexDuckYouSuckerx
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Re: Drive weeks after smoking weed? Get convicted of drugged driving. [Re: carbonhoots]
    #5783402 - 06/23/06 10:31 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

What if teh driver has mariwanna flash bax! I know a guy that tish happenned 2!


Idiotic legislation.


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Unions are the bastions of the mediocre. - luvdemshrooms


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Registered: 05/21/02
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Loc: innsmouth..MA
Re: Drive weeks after smoking weed? Get convicted of drugged driving. [Re: carbonhoots]
    #5783484 - 06/23/06 11:06 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

So, if this happens to you, and you get DUID (cuz you smoked a joint last week), does that mean you are not allowed to get any student loans either (higher education act)? It it's you third offence in a three strikes state, are you going away for life?




you dont even have to have smoked the joint or otherwise used an illegal (or legal) drug...the only requirement is that you fail a drug test pursuant to a traffic citation..and drug tests have been known to produce false positives...

in practice..however..a drug test also requires a probable cause to administer..such as failing or refusing a field sobriety test...the text of the michigan case is available at ..

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data2/mich...or3jan06-op.pdf

in this case..there was more than enough probable cause for a drug test..and in all probability the defendants were properly under the influence...

what is disturbing about this case..however..is that the court has apparently legislated from the bench and changed the law to include metabolites that were excluded under the original DUID law...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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Offlinekotik
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Re: Drive weeks after smoking weed? Get convicted of drugged driving. [Re: Annapurna1]
    #5786068 - 06/24/06 08:02 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

the crazy shit is that as someone already said, metabolites are not drugs, or anything of the sort. they are just tiny clues that tell someone that you had thc in you at one point, but its no longer there.

having metabolite will not affect you in anyway, and there are so many false positives, its crazy to think how they would try to enforce something like that....

thats fuckin crazy


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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OfflinePanoramix
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Registered: 11/26/03
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Re: Drive weeks after smoking weed? Get convicted of drugged driving. [Re: kotik]
    #5788317 - 06/25/06 12:41 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Hrm, that's so messed up it makes me glad I don't live in the States.  Or drive, for that matter. :smirk:


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Don't worry, I'm wrong.


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Invisiblepsilomonkey
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Registered: 08/08/03
Posts: 812
Loc: Airstrip One
Re: Drive weeks after smoking weed? Get convicted of drugged driving. [Re: carbonhoots]
    #5788756 - 06/25/06 07:15 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Thats pretty fucked up. It is a perversion of a law intended to (sensibly) make it an offense to be in control of a vehicle while your judgment and co-ordination are impaired.

If its just traces of metabolites associated with Schedule I substances, they are on patchy ground. Apart of legal medication there are a number of other innocuous things thats could put traces of metabolites in your system.

I would think twice about eating a poppy seed bagel in Michigan.  :tongue:

However I could understand if the levels required were used to show intoxication at the time of arrest, as it is not always possible to obtain a sample in time to detect the active compounds. If the burden was to show that you had been intoxicated say within 6 hrs I could accept that.


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InvisibleGabbaDjS
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Re: Drive weeks after smoking weed? Get convicted of drugged driving. [Re: psilomonkey]
    #5789079 - 06/25/06 10:34 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

It is a perversion of a law intended




This is what lawyers have forced on us. The judge is probably sick of kids with lawyers getting them off with just a slap on the wrist even though everyone around knows they are guilty.

Judge took things way too far but Im sure he did it because someone needed to be punnished.

The law is such a funny thing. A person who gets caught in the act, admidts to a crims can still go free.

I think we should call it OJ Justice.


--------------------
GabbaDj

FAMM.ORG             


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OfflineMicrocosmatrix
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Registered: 10/20/05
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Re: Drive weeks after smoking weed? Get convicted of drugged driving. [Re: RosettaStoned]
    #5789084 - 06/25/06 10:39 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Let's see what the U.S. supreme court has to say. This is only going to fuck the system up in Michigan.


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:orly:



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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Drive weeks after smoking weed? Get convicted of drugged driving. [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #5789241 - 06/25/06 11:56 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

the SCOTUS ruled in indianapolis v edmonds (2000) that police cannot arbitrarily stop a vehicle to look for drugs ("ordinary criminal wrongdoing")...however..in michigan state police v sitz (1990) the SCOTUS upheld such stops to check for alcohol intoxication...as such..the standard used will be if police have a probable cause for intoxication at a sobriety checkpoint or ticket stop...they cannot..however..stop your vehicle purely for the purpose of administering a drug test...so the best defense is simply to drive carefully...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...


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OfflineMicrocosmatrix
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Re: Drive weeks after smoking weed? Get convicted of drugged driving. [Re: Annapurna1]
    #5789279 - 06/25/06 12:12 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah, but if some other asshole hits you, you can go to jail and face heavy financial losses due to no fault of your own.

The best defense is to stay the fuck out of those retarded states that have DUID laws. Especially zero tolerance DUID laws..

http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=4516

Avoid the states that have a little car in them..


Read here about DUID laws..

http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=6492


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:orly:



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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Drive weeks after smoking weed? Get convicted of drugged driving. [Re: psilomonkey]
    #5789392 - 06/25/06 01:12 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

> If the burden was to show that you had been intoxicated say within 6 hrs I could accept that.

Why make it difficult... the cop gives you a road side skill test and if you fail it, you get a driving while impaired charge. Doesn't matter if you fail because you got hurt in a football game or if you fail because you are driving on a valid prescription or if you fail because you smoked a bowl an hour ago... if you fail, you fail. If the impaired person disagrees, use a camera to record the test and let a jury decide. No magic numbers, no breath tests, no blood tests... a simple skill test, pass or fail on the spot.


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OfflineRosettaStoned
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Re: Drive weeks after smoking weed? Get convicted of drugged driving. [Re: Seuss]
    #5789424 - 06/25/06 01:28 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

use a camera to record the test and let a jury decide.




And where do you suggest poor people get such a camera? This is always what I find amusing about people who feel protected by the law. They always know they have money to hire a decent lawyer and can use the latest technology to their benefit in a court case. Yet in reality very few have that luxury, most of us would have to rely on a public defender which are next to worthless. Nor could the majority of people affected by such asinine laws ever afford a camera to record the test, let alone have a snowballs chance in hell at winning a trial by jury against a govt prosecutor.


--------------------
"Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa


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OfflineMicrocosmatrix
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Re: Drive weeks after smoking weed? Get convicted of drugged driving. [Re: RosettaStoned]
    #5789431 - 06/25/06 01:34 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Maybe the cops should be required to record these tests and provide them at trial? :shrug:


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