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Offlinehoopershroomer
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Registered: 03/30/06
Posts: 1,704
Loc: WA
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
i know now, there truly has to be a CREATOR(god)
    #5781255 - 06/22/06 05:58 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

so a few days ago i was listening to this rap cd, by an artist name, mishon control(he works with talib kweli if that helps). ne way at the end of this track i was listening to, randomly this sound of a woman came on and she was talking about philosophical things, about life, and the fact there is a god. it was a little hard to decipher at first but after i listened to it a few times, the concept of what the woman was saying absolutely blew my mind. and this is what she said:

"look at the sun, look at the moon. look at the formulation of the light of the day. look at the stars...the way they are...placed in the sky so we(humans) can guide ourselves across the earth. look at the ships we sailed across the ocean for the benefit of mankind...and the waves that blow them. look at the clouds that bring the rain...and the crops that grow, and the food you eat....and look within yoursleves, and the farthest horizons. all of these things are signs which are clear for those who are wise, for those who contemplate, for those who have the ability to understand. In other words, the creator is pointing to his creation as the proof of the reality of his existence and his power and his knowledge."


once i heard this....i was speechless for a few minutes and all i could do was contemplate about life and the fact that there is a god. i started looking at everything around me and started realizing there was no way that everything around me (whether it was my bed, my stereo my wallet, my mirror, all my clothes) was pure chance. i realized none of this could be just luck and there really is a creator, a god, a powerful entity, or w/e it is. wow, life is just absolutely astoundingly amazing, possibilities are endless....

new ay any comments/ questions would be appreciated?
whats your take on the fact of a creator of this all?


--------------------
"Life lived in the absence of the psychedelic experience that primordial shamanism is based on is life trivialized, life denied, life enslaved to the ego."

"You teach the world how to treat you, by showing the world how you treat yourself."

A well developed sense of humor is far superior to any religion"

"Everything you could want and could be, you already have and are."

:peace: & :heart:

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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: i know now, there truly has to be a CREATOR(god) [Re: hoopershroomer]
    #5781324 - 06/22/06 06:17 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Reality creates reality through the process of being reality. I know not of this "god" that you refer to.

Unless, you are referring to cause and effect? A mesh network of facets that exist in a state of constant interaction with all other facets of reality?

The concept of a "creator" is one that results from our natural tendency to impose our humanity onto the reality in which we exist. There, quite honestly, is not an identity that is responsible for this. Obviously, there are actions being carried out that are entirely far beyond our comprehension, on scales and levels unfathomable. Our fault is to attribute the phenomenon of reality to an identity that resembles our own, and, in light of the nature of reality, it is entirely senseless.

Reality is reality. "Reality" is all-encompassing, and simply represents the entirety of this phenomenon of existance without implying any human conception that is brazenly limited and without an encompassing perspective.

To assume more... is to not reflect reality... which, quite frankly, is not beneficial to our ability to navigate reality, to further propagate reality, as an aspect of reality...

Bring awareness within oneself and observe. Initiate change, interact with reality, as one directly perceives and observes, and build more understanding of reality. Repeat. :mushroom2:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: i know now, there truly has to be a CREATOR(god) [Re: hoopershroomer]
    #5781372 - 06/22/06 06:31 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

man have you picked a wrong place to share this, nice post though


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: i know now, there truly has to be a CREATOR(god) [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5781379 - 06/22/06 06:33 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
man have you picked a wrong place to share this




Completely unnecessary, detrimental sentiment, in my opinion. :nonono:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineBasilides
Servent ofWisdom
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Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
Loc: Crown and Heart
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: i know now, there truly has to be a CREATOR(god) [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5781424 - 06/22/06 06:47 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
:blah: :blah: :blah: :mushroom2:
:blah: :blah: :blah:  :rolleyes:
:blah: Reality is Reality :blah: :blah:
:blah: :blah: :blah: :smile:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:




--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
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Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: i know now, there truly has to be a CREATOR(god) [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5781434 - 06/22/06 06:50 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
man have you picked a wrong place to share this




Completely unnecessary, detrimental sentiment, in my opinion. :nonono:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:




Thank you for enriching my knowledge database with information about your opinion

plus I've learned a new word today: detrimental


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Offlinecapliberty
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Registered: 04/23/06
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Re: i know now, there truly has to be a CREATOR(god) [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5781542 - 06/22/06 07:12 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Obviously, there are actions being carried out that are entirely far beyond our comprehension, on scales and levels unfathomable




Quote:

To assume more... is to not reflect reality... which, quite frankly, is not beneficial to our ability to navigate reality, to further propagate reality, as an aspect of reality...




If there are actions being carried beyond our comprehension, to know of their existence is assuming, besides assumptions can be used theoretically such as in science and then verified by proof, in which science is a tool to navigate our reality, and if there are actions beyond our capacity and comprehension, is not right to assume, if there are actions beyond our capacity, it doesn't mean it doesn't exit if you can't prove it, you just don't know how, and is it wrong to entertain such an idea, in certain cases but not philosophically

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OfflinePanoramix
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Registered: 11/26/03
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Re: i know now, there truly has to be a CREATOR(god) [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5781642 - 06/22/06 07:33 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

...Wow, she really knows what she's talking about, to quote the Beastie Boys. There's a flipside to the coin, however, and it's a bit naive to ignore it. Navigation by stars seems like it's been pretty swell, but slaves kidnapped from their homes and sent across the world for menial labour and the like might have disagreed in their time, not to mention the indigenious populations that violent and ambitious ocean-faring cultures have destroyed. And to assume the stars are in the sky for us to navigate by seems a bit human-centric to me. And since when do waves blow boats? But yeah, to see God in all things is about as clear a view of God as one could hope to achieve, in my opinion. To start labeling God a Creator is, I would say, a misstep. You're now assuming an absolute non-existance that was(avoiding using the word 'existed' there) prior to our reality. To do this seperates God from the rest of existance, 'cause if he Created, he must have existed prior to Creation. If he is external to and greater than Creation, then reality can and has not been.

But yes, reality, the very intricacy of it and the manner in which it fits so clockworkishly together are quite a marvel. I wouldn't consider them evidence of higher power or intelligent design necessarily though. I mean, when you think about it, how could it be any other way? As Fireworks_God pointed out, reality propagates reality, otherwise it would never have been and could never be. Yeah, actually, as I read it over I realize the redundency of my own post, as Fireworks has laid things out pretty spot on, as is generally the case. Watch me post it anyway. Though I think you may have meant "Rinse and repeat" at the end there, man... But yeah, the emphasis you place on the initiating change and the percieving nicely encaptulates the receptive AND creative dualism that is necessary to reflect reality and thus be part of it's flow.

In terms of divine hip-hop lyrics, I don't have liner don't so this is just my best decipherment but how about
"Oh yeah, I seen him before/ playing with rings and C-4/ he looks into the future and sees war/ his name was Seymour/ a man of all faiths/ he read holy books while he drank gin and smoked ace/ Buddhist, Hindu, Jewish, Christian, Morman/ Then one morning/ He opened up his eyes and read the Koran/ He said 'The Holy Wars are just a warning/ so he sat down, closed his eyes/ looked within and started truly exploring/ He found God in all living things/ Then envisioned kings dead/ scepters broken, crowns crumbling/ finally he talks after years of mumbling/ finally he walks after years of stumbling/ he's headed for the city limits/ to purge himself of the metropolis and everything that is within it/ threw his hands to the sky and promised to die/ when his time came/ a single vibe that re-enforced his mindframe/ he said I absolve myself of every religion and faith/ and take no pride or stake in any country or state/ looked around and found out not many could relate/ so he put words on wax and used beats as bait/ and look at how he caught'cha/ carressed and chopped'cha/ re-arranged your mind/ now your vision's blind/ go forth and speak it from the soul, it's time/ my powers are manifest.


--------------------
Don't worry, I'm wrong.

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Offlinecapliberty
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Re: i know now, there truly has to be a CREATOR(god) [Re: Panoramix]
    #5781718 - 06/22/06 07:51 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

i can't bye the argument that reality propagating reality as an adequate explanation for creation, this statement here is a mere assumption and based on human conception that doesn't encompass the whole.

All of sudden earth made dinosaurs extinct and human into existence all on its own propagation, OK you had a ice age, whipped out the dinosaurs, then monkeys already existed, but some how they evolved into cave men, and if it wasn't monkeys then where did we evolve from, but you look at monkeys where is the transition species with the higher levels of intelligence, can you attempt to explain the evolution process a little better, how did monkey intelligence become human intelligence, how did the monkeys loose its hair and turn colors, and why was it just the monkeys, us suddenly appearing is not an adequate explanation of reality propagating itself,

Edited by capliberty (06/22/06 07:59 PM)

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: i know now, there truly has to be a CREATOR(god) [Re: Basilides]
    #5781951 - 06/22/06 09:10 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
Quote:

fireworks_god said:
:blah: :blah: :blah: :mushroom2:
:blah: :blah: :blah:  :rolleyes:
:blah: Reality is Reality :blah: :blah:
:blah: :blah: :blah: :smile:

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:







You've got to be kidding. His posts have ten times the content of yours. :tongue:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflinePanoramix
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Posts: 634
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Re: i know now, there truly has to be a CREATOR(god) [Re: capliberty]
    #5782028 - 06/22/06 09:36 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Reality propagating reality isn't trying to be an adequate explanation for creation, just for existance.  There is a very real difference there.

As for explaining evolution more clearly to you, I'll try but I forget the exact line of things for humans.  First off, I'd lose the 'All of a sudden', because nothing happens all of a sudden, it just seems that way if your scope isn't broad enough.  There was a cataclysmic event that killed off most of the various varieties of species that existed prior to that event, let's call those critters that didn't make it dinosaurs for the sake of simplicity.  Monkeys didn't exist as such then, but the conditions of the time, most notably the climatic instability, allowed for mammals to prosper.  They filled the niches their cold-blooded cousins had so recently been forced to vacate.  Some got into trees in a big way.  They got well-suited to doing that, all prehensile with the tails and whatnot, let's for the sake of simplicity call these organisms monkeys.  Now, some of them decided they were big enough to inhabit the ground more permanently.  Some of the primarily ground-dwelling monkeys were spending a lot of their time upright, and did other things with their forelimbs.  The more they manipulated things, the more neural connections for manipulating things they grew.  They starting feeling awfully clever due to the obvious lifestyle advantages this gave them and decided they were different and distinct from every other animal, that their intelligence was higher and better and more important.  When did 'monkey intelligence' become 'human intelligence'?  Never.  You ARE a monkey, m'boy, and the most profound lines of thinking you can concieve of are the ones that are shared by the greatest number of warm-blooded animals.  Elephants mourn their dead, whales masturbate for the sake of making themselves feel good, tricking their bodies into triggering their sexual responses when there is no opportunity to reproduce and your dog loves you.

Evolution is the gradual change of the genetic information of a species in ways that allow them to still be fertile and produce fertile young.  It has a variety of causes, from mutation to only the most well-suited organisms living to an age where they can reproduce.  When it comes to us humans and our variety of hair colours, there's no reason to think that wasn't something that existed in the species already, but the fact that people spread across the world and stopped being a single interbreeding population helped with making us different in terms of pigmentation.  As for the hair loss, all it takes is for there to be more babies with less hair doing well.  I'd guess we didn't much need to be hairy to survive any more because we'd taking to wearing to skins of other animals, and the less hair we had, we easier we could groom ourselves.  That means fewer deaths due to tick-borne blood parasites and the like.  All of a sudden, hair was a liability rather than an asset. 

But in any practical sense, people have always been people, cats have always been cats, monkeys have always been monkeys and so on, because evolution happens SO GRADUALLY that it hardly matters to anyone except as a way of understanding the shape of the things that have been, that are and that are to come.  It doesn't go from worse to better, it's just a matter of what chemical processes are most likely to propagate themselves.  Looking over this, I realize I said all of a sudden after saying there was no such thing.  Hair wasn't all of a sudden a total liability or else no one would have hair.  Notice we've for the most part kept the hair on top of our heads, the area from which we lose the most body heat and where it's hardest to wear crude fur clothing without it getting in the way of our sensory intake organs.  For my money, we'll keep the eyebrow, eyelash and nose hair to the end and nose hair will be the very last go, if it goes at all.  They're the most useful hair in terms of preventing disease and injury.  But I'm speculating and not a geneticist in any case.  There will proabably be a better explanation up already by the time I get this posted... :smirk:


--------------------
Don't worry, I'm wrong.

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Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: i know now, there truly has to be a CREATOR(god) [Re: capliberty]
    #5782192 - 06/22/06 10:23 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

capliberty said:
i can't bye the argument that reality propagating reality as an adequate explanation for creation, this statement here is a mere assumption and based on human conception that doesn't encompass the whole.

All of sudden earth made dinosaurs extinct and human into existence all on its own propagation, OK you had a ice age, whipped out the dinosaurs, then monkeys already existed, but some how they evolved into cave men, and if it wasn't monkeys then where did we evolve from, but you look at monkeys where is the transition species with the higher levels of intelligence, can you attempt to explain the evolution process a little better, how did monkey intelligence become human intelligence, how did the monkeys loose its hair and turn colors, and why was it just the monkeys, us suddenly appearing is not an adequate explanation of reality propagating itself,




Basically you are expressing amazement that reality is the way it is. I agree, it is a truly marvelous and breathtaking thing to think about. But suddenly jumping from amazement to conceptualizing some sentient being creating all this (God in our image anyone?) is unwarranted.

Perhaps our environment is itself intelligent (Gaia!). There are so many possibilities that it boggles the mind. But one need not know all the intricacies and mechanics of reality to live in harmony with reality. Such is the joy of intuition!


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln

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Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
Re: i know now, there truly has to be a CREATOR(god) [Re: dblaney]
    #5782245 - 06/22/06 10:34 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

don't let what I say discredit what you found.

You, through synchrnoicity, were lead to revelation and it is pertinent..... accept it's profound nature and be happy and grateful for it, and for the capacity to feel such things.

It is your personal truth at least and a unviersal one at best... but here is my skepticism if you wanna read.... it doesn't mean you're wrong, this is just my mind trying to grasp such things:
i don't see how there can be one creator..... reigning over all.

unless he isn't real.

becuase i mean think it

we're real right? (arguably "no"?) well then...... in order for us to be real we had to be created.... because our unvierse is so bogglingly complex right?

Well how more bogglingly complex is a supreme creator that has the authority to create everything? Even more so... so if he's real, he has to have a source of creation too... eh?

I suppose things don't make sense at all I mean... if you really think about it just the fact that you exist at all is completely mind blowing, and could render you in the fetal position. No it doesn't make any sense to me at all..... but it doesn't really make sense that there is a sentient God-thing who deliberately designed everything to be an exact way.... but ah isn't it...

isn't it circular? God is an easy solution because when faced with the immense complexities our minds are blown. There could be a God, a conscious and sentient God. Perhaps God is just dreaming, and we are his characters.

I mean I can see how in the begining there was just one consciousness, and somehow it was split and divided many many many times, so we are lesser manifestations of that consciousness and can tap that consciousness within. I'm not sure how I can see that a God painstakingly and deliberately made everything htough.

But at the same time... I can. In a way it makes sense..... in a way it doesn't

How is there a God though? How can there possibly be a being so powerful.... how did it come into existence? How can it have always existed, if we haven't always existed? What is.... what is typing.

How are we real? I dunno man.... don't know at all.

there is something, and we can go ahead and call it God, and I will be okay with that..... creationism itself I am not so sure about.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!

Edited by leery11 (06/22/06 10:38 PM)

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OfflineBasilides
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Registered: 02/10/06
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Re: i know now, there truly has to be a CREATOR(god) [Re: Icelander]
    #5782666 - 06/23/06 12:48 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Way to NOT GET THE JOKE Icelander.  :tongue:


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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Offlineslaphappy
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Re: i know now, there truly has to be a CREATOR(god) [Re: Basilides]
    #5782746 - 06/23/06 01:31 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Humanity.

PAH!


--------------------
The argent messenger of truth beyond truth, the antithesis of life, cruel and bleak as interstellar space, pulseless and frozen as absolute zero, dazzling with the frost of irrefragable logic and unforgettable fact.

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
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Re: i know now, there truly has to be a CREATOR(god) [Re: hoopershroomer]
    #5782752 - 06/23/06 01:36 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Do you have any idea how many stars there are in the universe? Even if a tiny percentage of them have planets, and a tiny percentage of those are Earthlike, that leaves billions and billions of planets much like our own. Saying that it's luck or divine providence that we live on a planet with conditions ideal for the kind of life that evolved here is really absurd.


--------------------

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Offlineslaphappy
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Re: i know now, there truly has to be a CREATOR(god) [Re: Silversoul]
    #5782795 - 06/23/06 02:05 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Letting numbers negate the existence of God is absurd.

Everyone knows God is just a word.


--------------------
The argent messenger of truth beyond truth, the antithesis of life, cruel and bleak as interstellar space, pulseless and frozen as absolute zero, dazzling with the frost of irrefragable logic and unforgettable fact.

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Offlinebugi_bi
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Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 52
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Re: i know now, there truly has to be a CREATOR(god) [Re: hoopershroomer]
    #5782889 - 06/23/06 03:03 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

hoopershroomer said:
"look at the sun, look at the moon. look at the formulation of the light of the day. look at the stars...the way they are...placed in the sky so we(humans) can guide ourselves across the earth. look at the ships we sailed across the ocean for the benefit of mankind...and the waves that blow them. look at the clouds that bring the rain...and the crops that grow, and the food you eat....and look within yoursleves, and the farthest horizons. all of these things are signs which are clear for those who are wise, for those who contemplate, for those who have the ability to understand. In other words, the creator is pointing to his creation as the proof of the reality of his existence and his power and his knowledge."




i understood this like its all placed there to help us...i have to be wrong cuz thats all messed up IMO...
its like what came first egg or the chicken....human or earth...is earth shaped according to humans or are the humans shaped according to earth...


--------------------

end

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OfflineBlueCoyote
Beyond
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Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
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Re: i know now, there truly has to be a CREATOR(god) [Re: slaphappy]
    #5782906 - 06/23/06 03:12 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah, and words are only names and there exist many names for g*d, while one always fails to call him by one name :grin:

Ice: Clean in front of your hut, first :rolleyes:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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Offlinecapliberty
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Re: i know now, there truly has to be a CREATOR(god) [Re: dblaney]
    #5783263 - 06/23/06 09:06 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

dblaney said:
Quote:

capliberty said:
i can't bye the argument that reality propagating reality as an adequate explanation for creation, this statement here is a mere assumption and based on human conception that doesn't encompass the whole.

All of sudden earth made dinosaurs extinct and human into existence all on its own propagation, OK you had a ice age, whipped out the dinosaurs, then monkeys already existed, but some how they evolved into cave men, and if it wasn't monkeys then where did we evolve from, but you look at monkeys where is the transition species with the higher levels of intelligence, can you attempt to explain the evolution process a little better, how did monkey intelligence become human intelligence, how did the monkeys loose its hair and turn colors, and why was it just the monkeys, us suddenly appearing is not an adequate explanation of reality propagating itself,




Basically you are expressing amazement that reality is the way it is. I agree, it is a truly marvelous and breathtaking thing to think about. But suddenly jumping from amazement to conceptualizing some sentient being creating all this (God in our image anyone?) is unwarranted.

Perhaps our environment is itself intelligent (Gaia!). There are so many possibilities that it boggles the mind. But one need not know all the intricacies and mechanics of reality to live in harmony with reality. Such is the joy of intuition!




Whats amazing is conceptualizing that we're an accidental aberration of space or the cosmos, space didn't create me, for something to propagate itself, you still need something to trigger the chain reaction, such as how we are born, you need a egg and sperm to conjoin, after that then the two propagates and we evolve into human beings, but without the triggering of the two a human is none existent,

look at the moon, their is no ecological balance to introduce any molecules to trigger a chain reaction in which life can evolve, and anyways what gave the unconscious universe the ability to create the first form molecules that eventually create different matters of life, how was a tiger molecule obtained naturally, then how was a human, or a billion other species of molecules obtained naturally, what evolutionists overlook is the fact of the first existing elements and molecules to trigger the chain reaction of creation, you can easily explain its creation after assuming its introduced but how was it introduced is the question,

don't tell me that it introduced itself through ecological balance, that space or the cosmos is the true genius behind our creation, reality can't explain itself, that things were made by accident, reality creates reality only up to certain point, things have to be made into existence, for them to exist, don't tell me earth always existed and life on it always existed, is it so hard to believe that a higher intelligence, whether it was the cosmos or whether something else planned this, regardless this working of existence had a higher level of intelligence, besides what makes water, air, certain temperature, give life. Why are these inherited life giving properties,

Are we truly alive, is vegetation alive, life to me consciousness, why is it so hard to assume that there's higher levels of consciousness, vegetation has no consciousness but its considered alive, besides human can only grasp 5 dimensions at best, we perceive a 3 to 4 dimensional universe, but math has proven infinite dimensions,

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