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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: are you an old soul? [Re: BlueCoyote]
#5788805 - 06/25/06 08:03 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I think that he would get the same response to a post which read:
"Are you more philosophically advanced than other people? I believe that I possess more wisdom and rationality than most people. I cannot demonstrate this in any way, I just feel it."
See? No religious terms necessary. If you hop on a debate forum and post a claim to spiritual OR philosophical superiority, you can expect to be questioned.
hoopershroomer: I think that it is excellent that you are interested in developing your inner life, understanding the spirit, and connecting the dots of this curious puzzle. What is not so excellent is deciding that these pursuits make you spiritually superior to others who are pursuing different paths.
The most important part of a spiritual path (IMO) is the way it deepens and broadens YOUR life experience. If others do not choose to undertake that journey, or they follow a path which is divergent from yours, it does not necessarily follow that their souls are new/inexperienced/inferior.
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BlueCoyote
Beyond
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Re: are you an old soul? [Re: Veritas]
#5788815 - 06/25/06 08:11 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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But philosophical terms are better to 'debate', as they can be better argued and differentiated, I think. He would have to make his point of view much clearer in arguable terms.
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: are you an old soul? [Re: BlueCoyote]
#5788822 - 06/25/06 08:15 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Claims of superiority are subject to questioning, whether they contain religious terms or philosophical terms. Certainly it is difficult to define "soul," much less "old" and "new" subsets of the word, but it is also difficult to define or demonstrate "wisdom" or "rationality," because someone else can always disagree that you are wise or rational.
Again, anyone who does not want their beliefs questioned has another forum in which they will be vigorously protected from challenge.
Interesting, that this same subject was discussed in MR&P this week, in the "spiritually equal" thread.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,009
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Re: are you an old soul? [Re: Veritas]
#5788829 - 06/25/06 08:20 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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age of souls? debate? time? sounds like cross cultural contamination. souls are a topic that is out of the time constraint altogether, debate about it sounds totally trite in the context of timelessness, and time itself, well that is another thread, or is it?
-------------------- _ 🧠_
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BlueCoyote
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Re: are you an old soul? [Re: Veritas]
#5788904 - 06/25/06 08:57 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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You are right, veritas. It is simply, that I would like to see it drawn down to arguable or philosophical arguments
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: are you an old soul? [Re: BlueCoyote]
#5788996 - 06/25/06 09:45 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Hmm...how would one discuss this issue in philosophical/arguable terms?
We can define the qualities which are being classified as evidence of multiple reincarnations: interest in spirituality and philosophy, concern with personal growth, precocious wisdom, developed intellect, ethical/moral behavior, concern for others, etc...
Once these qualities are defined, we still need to take someone's opinion of themself as evidence of spiritual or philosophical superiority. We can examine the limited demonstration of behavior on this board, and try to contrast/compare to their stated opinion of their capacity, but this is not a broad enough "sample" upon which to conduct accurate research.
We could say: "these are the attributes of a spiritually superior person," and use this model as a measuring stick for our own behavior/qualities, thus engaging in applied philosophy.
Still, what is the purpose of defining oneself as superior or inferior, as compared to others? Is it a motivator to improve (if we are big spiritual losers), or permission to slack off (as we are sooooo far ahead already)?
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BlueCoyote
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Re: are you an old soul? [Re: Veritas]
#5789019 - 06/25/06 09:57 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yes, self declaring this, like with all positive attributes still remains kind of foolish. I see now what you mean.
That's why an old saying goes: A shaman never rates himself as that. He is rated.
That may be true for all 'superiorities', otherwise it may be valuated as simple pride ego games
Buuuut, it would not be bad to make such a rating scale, or to select some 'idols' in our days for that purpose
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Anonymous
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Re: are you an old soul? [Re: BlueCoyote]
#5789081 - 06/25/06 10:36 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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enlightennment of all kinds does kind of smack of elitisim quite harshly! But all types of mystical experiences do vary. Everyones experience cannot be the same . it is virtually impossible. IF NOTHING Happened for a reason , Nothing would ever exist, but yet there is something.... And we do exist... And some people exist differently than others.... THats just the way it is... have you thought of the idea that god might actually have a devine plan for all of us in a great unbeknown quest to bridge the gap between where we are now, and where we could be as 1. enjoying life together. choosing subject few to come to come to a realization of this amazing world we are given by creation, and to help everyone enjoy everything our bodies and soul have to offer us..... ... For the ultimate mastertask of helping everyone to accept and interpret things truely as they are and should be for everyone.. Im Sure it will take EONS
Edited by Horseonsandhill (06/25/06 10:51 AM)
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BlueCoyote
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Re: are you an old soul? [Re: Veritas]
#5789117 - 06/25/06 10:58 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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sorry, have to add: umpf, better no idols...hehe (as BC remembers his ancient statement about personal debates)
Idol is a much too strong word, sorry. Better I would and will use the word human 'example', that fits much better, as it brings down the theory into practice
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SoY
I am the LizardKing
Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 774
Loc: Everywhere
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Re: are you an old soul? [Re: BlueCoyote]
#5789147 - 06/25/06 11:13 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Please, concepts of spirituality that are not egocentric in nature will plainly express that everyone is at different levels of the same path to higher awareness.
thank you for agreeing with me
-------------------- "The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji "Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream." "My karma ran over my dogma!"
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fireworks_god
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Re: are you an old soul? [Re: SoY]
#5789165 - 06/25/06 11:24 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I have not agreed with you. Different points on the same path, and you are not capable of discerning where anyone else is on that path. To make a statement that one is more spiritually advanced than another demonstrates that one is full of their own shit.
Peace.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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SoY
I am the LizardKing
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If they are at different points of the same path, then obviously some are more aware and some are less aware, otherwise they would be at the same point....
-------------------- "The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji "Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream." "My karma ran over my dogma!"
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Icelander
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Re: are you an old soul? [Re: SoY]
#5789195 - 06/25/06 11:37 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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That is assuming that one really knows what the path is and what the purpose of other peoples experience is. That's a really big reach for someone who isn't fully awake to the full purpose of Tao.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: are you an old soul? [Re: SoY]
#5789199 - 06/25/06 11:38 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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It is very tempting to indulge in the more aware/less aware game. I have done it myself, and enjoyed the pleasant sense of being part of the "eyes open" club.
But when I take a step back from my own self-satisfaction, it seems clear that I know very little about the spiritual qualities of others.
The seemingly angry young man on the bus will hurry to offer his seat to an older woman using a cane to walk onto the bus.
That cranky clerk at the Post Office will open up and smile when asked about the beautiful calendar on her station wall.
A tense stranger will relax and begin to chat about her puppy when I laugh about the dog hair on my black slacks.
People I might otherwise judge and dismiss can surprise me with a glimpse of their soul, a peek at their spirit, after just a brief moment of non-judgmental attention and warmth.
When we are locked within our personas, believing that we are superior or inferior to others, we miss the opportunity to connect and enjoy one another. It is natural to do this, but it is far from preferable.
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fireworks_god
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Re: are you an old soul? [Re: SoY]
#5789228 - 06/25/06 11:52 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
SoY said: If they are at different points of the same path, then obviously some are more aware and some are less aware, otherwise they would be at the same point....
All of us are more aware and less aware, of different things.... We are on the same path, but that path is different for everyone. Judgement demonstrates a sense of superiority, which, honestly, isn't very enlightened.
Peace.
-------------------- If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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SoY
I am the LizardKing
Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 774
Loc: Everywhere
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Judgement demonstrates a sense of difference, not neccessarily superiority. One could be further along the path to enlightenment, but that doesn't make them superior to anyone else. This is what I mean when I say "spiritually advanced".
For example, I would say that a zen buddhist monk is more spiritually advanced than a person who goes through life doing evil acts to others. Yes, the monk and the person doing evil are each more and less aware of different things, but overall the monk is more spiritually advanced because of the way he interacts with others.
Someone who is filled with love and compassion for others because they realize that in fact we are one is more spiritually advanced than someone who hates or does evil to others. If you cannot see this than I am afraid that you are lost.
The evildoers can always become as advanced as anyone else, but often times they go through life asleep....
-------------------- "The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji "Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream." "My karma ran over my dogma!"
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hoopershroomer
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Registered: 03/30/06
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Quote:
fireworks_god said:
Quote:
hoopershroomer said: i dont want people taking this the wrong way and soem of you are and it frustruates me to see that.
Quote:
i know how this world works and i have complete capability to cope with the everyday reality challenges this world faces me with.
Which is why you grow frustrated when other individuals interpret ideas in a manner differently than what you intended? If you truly knew how this world "works", that would probably be one of the first lessons you would have realized. Growing frustrated is not demonstrating your "complete capability to cope".
Quote:
im no different then any of you, i just feel i have an enlightened soul and a profound purpose on this earth because of that, nothing else
Don't worry about it, everyone gets delusions of grandeur from time to time. Honestly, I'd suspect that, if you hadn't read some lofty notion of their being old souls in the first place, on some website such as ZetaTalk, then you would have never gotten the "feeling".
Ultimately, the idea of being an old soul intrigued you, specificially because it made you feel better about yourself, granted you a sense of identity and fufillment that was possibly lacking beforehand, so you "felt" it.
Honestly, feelings do not substantiate any aspect of reality, and you will not be able to demonstrate the existance of a "soul", nor determine its age. It is simply a feeling, and the mind can generate whatever feeling it wishes and associate it with whatever crazy idea it wants.
I personally consider myself to have gained an increased understanding of the nature of reality, and am fairly intelligent, but yet I have never made myself feel as though I have some ancient soul that is more enlightened than others.
It doesn't make a lot of sense to say, "I'm no different than you", just that I have an older soul and actually have a profound purpose on here because of this difference. Hhhm... a difference is a difference, and you are pronouncing a distinct difference. If this feeling of yours is already promoting oversight and subtle hypocrisy, then it, quite honestly, isn't doing you any good but feeling your head with a sense of baseless self-importance.
Peace.
"Don't worry about it, everyone gets delusions of grandeur from time to time. Honestly, I'd suspect that, if you hadn't read some lofty notion of their being old souls in the first place, on some website such as ZetaTalk, then you would have never gotten the "feeling"."
sorry but your supection is wrong. if you noticed in the notion the quote" if you are reading these words, your soul has guided you hear, you are an old soul", that reinforces my thought of being an old soul. see, sometime ago, i had an extremely in-depth philosopical and spiritual conversation with my step-mom(my half-bro's mom) about life. she was surprised by the exponential knowledge and wisdom i had at my young age while talking with her, and during a spiritual point i was trying to make(i forgot exactly what i was trying to say) she said" it's because your an old soul. when she said that i had no clue what she meant by an old soul, and i asked her what it was and she explained it to me. ever since that i had an inspirational relavation about myself and my life that i really was an old soul, and god has something special for me which will be revealed at some point in my life. i was very intrigued by this experience.
then, about 2 or so months ago, i had met a hippie guy and his girl that was selling his rot/german shepard newborn puppies through my mom and little brother(which my lil bro had met outside while they were walking there dogs, mind you my brother loves to pet any dog he sees). the white guy had dreadlocks and looked like a stoner, and he asked me if i wanted to smoke and i agreed, (btw this chronic was dank nyc diesel), and after we got high we started talking spiritually and philosophically(like im always inclined to bring up), and he also told me i was an old soul, he said "...because were old souls, and we know how to cope...". we clicked almost instantaneously, and that notion also stated in the zeta talk passage" Old souls almost instantly recognize each other. This is not a body language issue, as the human can be unaware of the age of their soul" also reinforced that situation. when he said that, that reminded me of when my step mom told me i was an old soul and this really fascinated me. when i told him my name also which is(i shouldnt be doing this but) Jah'di Zurishada Levi, he said "that's a powerful name, god has a mission for you" and this also inspired me a whole lot.
then just recently i decided to look up, old soul, on google and clicked on a few websites, and was amazed by its description of an old soul, which had alot of similarity and corrolated to the type of person i am. quotes within the passages like "Old souls almost instantly recognize each other. This is not a body language issue, as the human can be unaware of the age of their soul", remined me of the time the the hippie guy knew i was an old soul within in 15 minutes of meeting. all kinds of other things.
so that is when i got that idea. its real and you obviously do not understand what im getting at, but im just glad that people like soy know what im talkin about. if you cant except my point of view and how i say things, and you just want to try to degrade and express negative thoughts towards me then that your problem. do what you want but i know what im saying is real, now be gone
so that
-------------------- "Life lived in the absence of the psychedelic experience that primordial shamanism is based on is life trivialized, life denied, life enslaved to the ego." "You teach the world how to treat you, by showing the world how you treat yourself." A well developed sense of humor is far superior to any religion" "Everything you could want and could be, you already have and are." &
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Andy21
Armchairanarchist
Registered: 01/01/06
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While I do see that there are varying degrees of delusion in this world among all peoples, I see also spiritual materialism and a holier than thou attitude among those who would think themselves more enlightened. Giving yourself a name like 'old soul' seems to me to be just another ego game, it is merely a concept that seperates you from the populace. I have found once I stop building myself up in my head and just take people as I find them that all people are you, all people are good and worthy of your time. Do not feel like you are being attacked, but if you are an 'old soul' what then?
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DoctorJ
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Re: are you an old soul? [Re: Andy21]
#5791947 - 06/26/06 09:55 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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like dude, one time I went to this Buddhist monastery, and we all started meditating, and I was like the best meditator there, like I kicked everyone's ass at meditation, and they were all like: "You're the best meditator of all time," and then they gave me a prize!
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: are you an old soul? [Re: DoctorJ]
#5791958 - 06/26/06 09:59 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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No way! You won a Golden Idol award, too?
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