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OfflineCrobih
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When is war against the terror going to end?
    #5771799 - 06/20/06 08:53 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I suppose muslims can not be eradicated, as long as there is too many of them.

So, if we accept this idea, what is the other way of finishing this great war US is fighting? Is there any idea who can this war actually end, will it end ever?

If the answer is no, how do you accept the fact you live in the country who fights the war, kills thousands of innocent with no change to succeed?

Are you affraid of it?

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InvisibleGijith
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: Crobih]
    #5771940 - 06/20/06 10:09 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Someone really should direct this question to the president, since he's really one of the only people dumb enough to think this is the type of war that has a definitive end.


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what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?

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OfflinePhred
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: Crobih]
    #5771956 - 06/20/06 10:16 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

The war on Islamic terrorists will end when Islamic terrorists give up, and not before. That will be a very long time from now, if ever.

The very nature of Islam ensures there will always be Muslims who believe it is their duty under Allah to achieve their goals through violent means. The only way to alter that is for Islam to reform itself, and by the very nature of the basic Islamic tenets, that is never going to happen -- at least not completely. Devout Muslims believe the Koran is literally the word of Allah, unaltered from the time Mohammed revealed this will. The best we can hope for is that more and more Muslims will follow the path so many Christians and Jews and even Mormons have -- that they will become less observant and more lax in their devotions as time goes by.




Phred


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OfflineCrobih
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: Phred]
    #5771991 - 06/20/06 10:29 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
The war on Islamic terrorists will end when Islamic terrorists give up, and not before. That will be a very long time from now, if ever.




Give up from what, Phred? I can not notice that Islamic terrorist harm you in US at all? Or you are preparing for such thing, such as Hitler did by attacking Poland? Thats neat.

Neverhtless, you really think that the World is based on only one option you eventually are aware of? Is there any possiblity there might be some more options, eventually?

Quote:

The very nature of Islam ensures there will always be Muslims who believe it is their duty under Allah to achieve their goals through violent means. The only way to alter that is for Islam to reform itself, and by the very nature of the basic Islamic tenets, that is never going to happen -- at least not completely.




I can notice many lunatics around the World, yet nobody bombs them just because they are lunatics. What is maybe even more important. some people do find Americans in whole as great lunatics, so do these people have the right to nuke US just because they believe so? I think not. You?

Or you have different principles for you and different for others?

Quote:

Devout Muslims believe the Koran is literally the word of Allah, unaltered from the time Mohammed revealed this will. The best we can hope for is that more and more Muslims will follow the path so many Christians and Jews and even Mormons have -- that they will become less observant and more lax in their devotions as time goes by.




This is common thing seen throughout the history. Lunatics who kill in the name of God, of Freedom and so on and so on. And I do not see much differnece as long as I find all of them be irresponsible to World, taking pretty shitty, Nazi like Karma. And you?

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: Crobih]
    #5772005 - 06/20/06 10:33 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:


Give up from what, Phred? I can not notice that Islamic terrorist harm you in US at all? Or you are preparing for such thing, such as Hitler did by attacking Poland? Thats neat.




I think you're forgetting about that one time when a bunch of those nutjobs hijacked a few planes.

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OfflineCrobih
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: Redstorm]
    #5772018 - 06/20/06 10:38 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Of course I did not. Yet, does this act give you the right to nuke every single country with Muslims as a majority? And not just country, but all the people who claim as Muslims?

Or did you see this little massacre of US army in Iraq? Do you find this thing be enough for antiamericans fight the Americans as long as they claim to be one of those?

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OfflineCrobih
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: Crobih]
    #5772024 - 06/20/06 10:39 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

It seems that your logic says:" Yes it is all right, lets eliminate every single American lunatic who wants to destroy the Earth". I do not share your opinion.

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: Crobih]
    #5772035 - 06/20/06 10:42 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Who said anything about nukes?

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OfflineCrobih
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: Redstorm]
    #5772050 - 06/20/06 10:47 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

War is good, nukes are bad? :laugh:

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: Crobih]
    #5772053 - 06/20/06 10:47 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

War is sometimes necessary, though never good. Nukes are bad.

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OfflineCrobih
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: Redstorm]
    #5772086 - 06/20/06 10:55 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

So, when is war necessary? When some president states lies in order to start it? Such as Hitler did? What can legitimate exact war? I mean, UN did not legitimated it, the president who started admited whe was actually lying about the reason, none attacked your territory.

Do you find the war against the Iraq as necessity?

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: Crobih]
    #5772092 - 06/20/06 10:56 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

War is necessary when we are attacked or declared war on.

No, I do not believe the war in Iraq was a necessity. I do believe we were justified in going to Afghanistan, though/

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: Redstorm]
    #5772110 - 06/20/06 11:02 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

You can't fight a war against a non-state entity, that kind of defeats the concept of "war".

Just like the War on Drugs - it's not really a "war" at all, just a failed criminal justice case that is labeled "war" to make it sound more important and necessary to the general public.

The US is treating a criminal situation as if it were a full-scale war - which it isn't. I've said it before and I'll say it again - in doing so the US is making far more enemies than it had before the "war" on terror began. (yes that's abbreviated TWOT!)


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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OfflineCrobih
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: Redstorm]
    #5772112 - 06/20/06 11:03 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

OK. Yet, it seems to me this Iraq thing is just one stage of the global warfare Americas oligarchy got involved into, initiated by mysterious Al Quaida and great friend of Bush fammily Osama.

It seems to me that US oligarchy needs enemies, needs continous wars in order to keep its domination against American people. So, as long as Nazis are not existing, Commies are not popular (even alive), so you need something storng, something different, something new.

Muslims.

And those idiots (Muslims) play they role as puppets as long as they are gennerally stupid as all people who are not into big manipulation games regularly are.

And you are part of this great Hoax with actually only one enemy. The one that brings every season new patriot act leading you to thrue slavery and unceratinty.

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: trendal]
    #5772120 - 06/20/06 11:05 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

If you were responding to me, I agree with you 100%.

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: Redstorm]
    #5772137 - 06/20/06 11:10 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I was just kind of responding in general, yours happened to be the last post in the thread at the time :wink:

I thought you would agree with that, redstorm!


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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OfflineCrobih
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: trendal]
    #5772139 - 06/20/06 11:11 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

trendal said:
You can't fight a war against a non-state entity, that kind of defeats the concept of "war".

Just like the War on Drugs - it's not really a "war" at all, just a failed criminal justice case that is labeled "war" to make it sound more important and necessary to the general public.

The US is treating a criminal situation as if it were a full-scale war - which it isn't. I've said it before and I'll say it again - in doing so the US is making far more enemies than it had before the "war" on terror began. (yes that's abbreviated TWOT!)




Hmh. I can notice you attacked Iraq and Afganistan in these several years bringing pretty much mess into that system. I can not notice that you attacked any country in war against drugs.

So, there is a slight difference, right?

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: Crobih]
    #5772147 - 06/20/06 11:13 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Crobih said:
Hmh. I can notice you attacked Iraq and Afganistan in these several years bringing pretty much mess into that system. I can not notice that you attacked any country in war against drugs.



Well, not directly. But we have used the War on Drugs as an excuse to help governments fight leftist guerillas.


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OfflineCrobih
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: Silversoul]
    #5772157 - 06/20/06 11:18 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

As long as I can notice, we do agree about the fact that this war can not end by the win of US. So, is there any other option? Such as that US gets destroyed due to all of these wars? Goes around, comes around stuff?

What I can notice, people througout the world do not show great empaty to US soldiers in Iraq, nor do they show such empaty for innocent people in Iraq. If the war gets to US, would people all over the world look at Americans in the same manner?

Showing no empaty? And do you actually deserve it after all mess you did?

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: Crobih]
    #5772194 - 06/20/06 11:31 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I was only using the War on Drugs as a comparrison to show that the War on Terror isn't really a war, by definition.


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: trendal]
    #5772411 - 06/20/06 12:48 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I was only using the War on Drugs as a comparison to show that the War on Terror isn't really a war, by definition.




Agreed.

There isn't an enemy-state that we have declared "war" on, just "terrorists".
Thats a pretty loose definition of an "enemy". Someone who doesn't agree with your policies is now an "enemy" that deserves to be attacked :cuckoo:

How can the Geneva Convention be effective in this type of "war/conflict"....it can't.
The U.S. gets to make up the rules as they go along.

I'm afraid that this "war" is going to be the downfall of our civilization/way of life as we know it today, if it isn't stopped soon.....and I don't see an end in sight :sad:


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Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: niteowl]
    #5772697 - 06/20/06 02:29 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

There isn't an enemy-state that we have declared "war" on, just "terrorists".


Good point. It's a war on an abstract noun. Those are pretty hard wars to win  :crazy:

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: Alex213]
    #5772786 - 06/20/06 03:03 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

"Terrorist" is an abstract noun? Do tell. Then I guess "Painter" is as well. Or "student". Or "writer". Or "murderer". Back to class with you


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5773047 - 06/20/06 04:19 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I think he was trying to imply that we are at war with an idea and not a nation.

Ideas are abstract, nations are not.


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: Crobih]
    #5773487 - 06/20/06 06:27 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Probably never.

Why?

Because this so-called "war" is independently designed by both sides to be self-perpetuating. This allows both camps to demonize the other so as to conveniently channel public outrage and thereby deflect public criticism away from their own failed world views and repressive policies.

So we have a series of outrages:

They have 9/11.

We have Abu Gharib.

They have beheadings.

We have the Haditha massacre.

The propoganda cycle never ends..


As Ron Suskind points out in his new book 'The One Percent Doctrine' , Osama bin Laden's preferred winner of the 2004 election was none other than.. George W. Bush! That is why he had his provacative tape released just prior to the election- to give Bush the edge. Of course the Bush camp would have you believe just the opposite.

If you are going to understand this "war" you must begin by realizing that both sides in this conflict need each other. In fact they actually give birth to each other and feed off the other as all religious zealots and extremists have throughout the ages.

Osama bin Laden was the best thing that ever happened to George W. Bush.
If you recall, his presidency had little sense of focus or mission prior to 9/11. The presidency just seemed like the final entry in his resume' until then.

In my mind Bush is basically a hot-tempered dupe who was handed by history his own personal wet dream of committing unending aggression against "evil-doers". The real schemers are the people who know better- the rogues in the smoky back rooms..repulsive degenerates like Cheney who skulk in the shadows and use the military as their own private army as his pals reap their blood money while keeping a boardroom chair warm for Cheney. It turns your stomach when you really think about it.

Folks, this is why history warns again and again of mixing politics with religion. Our founding fathers were against it. Jesus for that matter was against it in spite of repeated attempts by his "followers" to draw him into the fray.

And now we have so-called "holy" warriors tearing up the planet, trashing our democracy from within and without.
But the evil they seek lies within which is why they will never find it or defeat it. People never learn it seems.

And so it goes..


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5775105 - 06/21/06 01:05 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
"Terrorist" is an abstract noun?




No, "Terrorism" is. Try and read what I actually write instead of what your mind imagines I have written. You'll find it's the best way.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: Alex213]
    #5776989 - 06/21/06 03:49 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Alex213 said:
There isn't an enemy-state that we have declared "war" on, just "terrorists".


Good point. It's a war on an abstract noun. Those are pretty hard wars to win  :crazy:




You wrote that we declared war on terrorists.  Read your own fucking posts.  The referent for "abstract noun" is found in the previous sentence, which would be "terrorists".  Whether you were the originator of that sentence is irrelevant, you used it.

To further illuminate the foolishness of this statement, a metalinguistic circle jerk, you could just as easily say that world war 2 was a war against a proper noun, i.e. the Axis Powers.  Schoolboy masturbation.  If you think you have a point try actually making it.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5777010 - 06/21/06 03:56 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I, too, am quite sick of the overuse of this "war" meme. War on poverty, drugs, terror, AIDS, crime, forest fires, whatever. It's Madison Ave bullshit and a shortcut around discussion. But it's a quick sounder and doesn't cause any harm.

Nonetheless, the stupid name does not invalidate the worthiness of the cause.


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5777045 - 06/21/06 04:12 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I, too, am quite sick of the overuse of this "war" meme.  War on poverty, drugs, terror, AIDS, crime, forest fires, whatever.  It's Madison Ave bullshit and a shortcut around discussion.  But it's a quick sounder and doesn't cause any harm.

Nonetheless, the stupid name does not invalidate the worthiness of the cause.




What "worthy cause" is it, that we are fighting for?

Are we trying to catch the person (OBL) who attacked us on 9-11?

No.

That was the real reason for this "war on terror"......to catch the people responsible for 9-11.

That was a worthy cause....but it was just a ruse. The U.S. government never made any real effort to catch OLB. They just used this as an excuse to invade Iraq....revenge.

Is revenge a "worthy cause" to murder over 100,00 people?

:noway:


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: niteowl]
    #5777110 - 06/21/06 04:35 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

As has been repeated over and over again, and which I will repeat yet again for the special few who have no clue. It is about the rule of law. It is as simple as that.


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5778406 - 06/21/06 10:16 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

So you're saying that this "worthy cause" is over "rule of law".
What rule of law are you talking about?

Iraq had NOTHING to do with what happened on 9-11.......there was no reason what so ever to invade Iraq.....other than revenge.

Bin Ladin was the "enemy who attacked us" not Saddam. :rolleyes:

GWB declares a "War on Terror".......an open-ended war........with no objective, no foreseeable end, nor means for an end.

With all other wars we have fought, there was a clear objective........a means to the end of the war.

What is our objective, in this war?

When is this "War on Terror" going to be over?
When we catch Bin Ladin?......We are not even looking for him.

What are the terms for ending this "war"

No one knows, because the terms, for ending the war, were never set.

Sounds a little fishy to me.


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: Crobih]
    #5778433 - 06/21/06 10:23 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Depending on how you see it, the war is either allready over, or will never end.

Honestly though, this war is a means to an end, and the end is not in the interests of the populace. It's become an excuse to expand government powers, and that's why we're continuing to be told about supposedly horrible threats that are at best a longshot.


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing

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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: niteowl]
    #5778594 - 06/21/06 11:02 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

The U.S. government never made any real effort to catch OLB.




What an absolute crock of shit. Do you have some secret information we are not privy to? I have a friend who had to leave his wife, job, and students behind out of nowhere for a week to fly to Pakistan because the government had a tip he was there. That sounds like they are looking for him to me.

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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: Redstorm]
    #5778943 - 06/22/06 12:27 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

If our government wanted Bin Laden we would have had him YEARS ago.

They really didn't want him they wanted Saddam, and the oil he controlled.....and that is who they found....they morphed Bin Laden into Saddam, and went after him instead.

We had Bin Laden cornered shortly after we went into Afghanistan....and let the locals go in after him........WTF.


Quote:

U.S. forces allowed Osama bin Laden to escape during the battle at Tora Bora in 2001 because the administration, he said, "outsourced" the task to Afghan militia leaders. This probably overstates the case -- it is unclear whether bin Laden was at Tora Bora -- but it is true that the Pentagon relied on Afghan proxy forces in an effort to minimize the potential loss of U.S. military lives.




link


Quote:

The Bush administration has concluded that Osama bin Laden was present during the battle for Tora Bora late last year and that failure to commit U.S. ground troops to hunt him was its gravest error in the war against al Qaeda, according to civilian and military officials with first-hand knowledge........

After-action reviews, conducted privately inside and outside the military chain of command, describe the episode as a significant defeat for the United States. A common view among those interviewed outside the U.S. Central Command is that Army Gen. Tommy R. Franks, the war's operational commander, misjudged the interests of putative Afghan allies and let pass the best chance to capture or kill al Qaeda's leader.........

In the fight for Tora Bora, corrupt local militias did not live up to promises to seal off the mountain redoubt, and some colluded in the escape of fleeing al Qaeda fighters.........

"We [messed] up by not getting into Tora Bora sooner and letting the Afghans do all the work," said a senior official with direct responsibilities in counterterrorism. "Clearly a decision point came when we started bombing Tora Bora and we decided just to bomb, because that's when he escaped. . . . We didn't put U.S. forces on the ground, despite all the brave talk, and that is what we have had to change since then."

"Terror is bigger than one person," Bush said March 14. "He's a person that's now been marginalized." The president said bin Laden had "met his match" and "may even be dead," and added: "I truly am not that concerned about him."




link

Straight from the horses mouth........GWB isn't concerned about finding OBL, and we havent made any real effort to find him since Tora Bora.
We went after Saddam instead.


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Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: niteowl]
    #5779036 - 06/22/06 12:51 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

The last time I checked, the President doesn not create battle strategy and determine where troops go. Someone fucked up, but it wasn't him this time.

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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: Redstorm]
    #5779548 - 06/22/06 04:49 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Generals make decisions like that, as well as the secretary of defense.

the commander in chief CAN step in whenever he damn well pleases and order something, but presidents normally trust the judgement of their designated military officials.


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing

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Invisiblegone
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: Konnrade]
    #5780915 - 06/22/06 03:51 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

the war on terror will be won right around the time the wars on drugs and poverty are won. Translation: never. Fighting terror means fighting fear. Fear will not subside when it has 115,000 guns put to it's head.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: niteowl]
    #5781346 - 06/22/06 06:24 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
So you're saying that this "worthy cause" is over "rule of law".
What rule of law are you talking about?




The law inherent in his surrender agreement, whereby he was to verifiably destroy all WMDs, among other conditions, as well as numerous other violations of Kindergarten etiquette.  He clearly failed sandbox and needed to be expelled
Quote:



Iraq had NOTHING to do with what happened on 9-11.......there was no reason what so ever to invade Iraq.....other than revenge.




Is it your ridiculous assertion that the only bad act anyone has ever perpetrated is 9/11?  Nobody said he had anything to do with 9/11.  Bulletin to you......Other people have committed other hideous acts.  Was Saddam some poor innocent lamb?  No, he was a murderous thug who had committed many acts of international and intranational terrorism and who clearly was willing to commit more.  So sorry, time for him to go
Quote:



Bin Ladin was the "enemy who attacked us" not Saddam. :rolleyes:





Not alone.  That's why the Taliban live in caves.  And they had shit resources.  Given Saddam's willingness to support terror and his potential resources to do so (see recent news regarding offers of support and declassified reports of WMDs) and his clear refusal to adhere to the inspection regime he agreed to his removal was imminently necessary.  Now we could have chosen to just do that and left a stinking pile of debris, but we chose to take on a harder job with the potential for greater rewards, i.e. future stability.  We'll see.  Can the troglodytes govern themselves peacably?  Stay tuned.  I think it's worth a shot.  I don't care what you think.  You're not in charge.  And that helps me sleep at night.
Quote:




GWB declares a "War on Terror".......an open-ended war........with no objective, no foreseeable end, nor means for an end.



I have already expressed my distaste for this metaphoric use of the word "War".  There is an objective,just as there is an objective in every criminal murder investigation or sting operation.  To get the bad actors off the streets.  There is no end.  There will never be an end.  You overbuy the metaphor.  Get over it.
Quote:



With all other wars we have fought, there was a clear objective........a means to the end of the war.

What is our objective, in this war?

When is this "War on Terror" going to be over?
When we catch Bin Ladin?......We are not even looking for him.

What are the terms for ending this "war"

No one knows, because the terms, for ending the war, were never set.

Sounds a little fishy to me.




Look, you can get caught up in this metaphor all you want.  It's not a real war anymore than the War on Poverty is a real war.  IT'S A FUCKING METAPHOR.  Capisce?  Jesus.  Get my car.  I'm outta here.


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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5782707 - 06/23/06 01:05 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

The law inherent in his surrender agreement,

You are talking utter bollocks. Resolution 641 says nothing like "The US has the right to invade Iraq in 12 years if the US alone thinks it has the right to". If you can find me that line, go ahead.

Without UN authorisation the war was illegal. End of story. 

and who clearly was willing to commit more.

Evidence? Or is this up there with "WMD"?

Given Saddam's willingness to support terror

Evidence?

see recent news regarding offers of support and declassified reports of WMDs

Sorry but the reports are bollocks. They amount to nothing more than 20 year old shells found unexploded on old battlefields.

and his clear refusal to adhere to the inspection regime

Come again? You need to read up on someone called Hans Blix.

his removal was imminently necessary

Not according to the UN who utterly rejected the invasion of Iraq.

There is no end. There will never be an end.

Don't be melodramatic. Of course there'll be an end to the clusterfuck in Iraq.

IT'S A FUCKING METAPHOR

You fighting wars on metaphors now?  :rolleyes:

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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: Crobih]
    #5782776 - 06/23/06 01:53 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

The war on terror will end when both combattants eventually run out of money.

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OfflineBasilides
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: Crobih]
    #5784924 - 06/23/06 08:34 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

The war on terrorism began and ended with Afghanistan. Right now they're just fighting thin air in the sense that they are killing "terrorists" who never would have dreamed of taking up arms 3-4 years ago. The US can kill deadenders all they like, that doesn't make it a "War on Terrorism". Besides, I thought it was renamed to the global struggle against extremism or something.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: Basilides]
    #5785286 - 06/23/06 10:17 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

More and more this "war/conflict/police action" is beginning to feel like Vietnam.

At least in Vietnam....we were ASKED to intervene.
We never declared "war"........just sent some "advisers", troops and weapons.
Never had a clear objective.....and lost many American lives in the process.


People on both sides were/are dying....but it's not a "war" :rolleyes:

What do you call a situation, where two countries are trying to kill each other.
If we are going to argue over what to call this conflict.....lets make up our minds now.

The situation in Iraq, is it a....

1. War
2. Police Action
3. Bureaucratic Cluster Fuck
4. An attempt to spread peace and democracy.


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: niteowl]
    #5785380 - 06/23/06 10:57 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

5) An attempt to bypass reason and foster repression.

Okay it's not very catchy.

People need simple, wrong solutions.

I'm out of ideas, guys. Sorry.


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Offlined33p
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: zorbman]
    #5785440 - 06/23/06 11:21 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

6)A Conflict


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I'm a nihilist. Lets be friends.

bang bang

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InvisibleAlex213
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5785581 - 06/24/06 12:31 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

You wrote that we declared war on terrorists.

I wrote no such thing.

Read your own fucking posts.

You're the one misinterpreting them, YOU fucking read them  :smile:

Whether you were the originator of that sentence is irrelevant, you used it.


Bullshit. You have misinterpreted my post and made yourself look silly. Get over it.

you could just as easily say that world war 2 was a war against a proper noun, i.e. the Axis Powers

The axis powers can be defined tho. Germany, Italy, Japan. The war had a clear goal and objective. Can you give break down who we are fighting in the "war on terror" and what our objective is?

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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: Alex213]
    #5785943 - 06/24/06 03:29 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Alex, let me make it clear for you: Bush reserves the right to attack anyone, at anytime under the umbrella of the bogus 'War on Terror'. People who like this sort of thing are unreasonable and not worth your time debating. They are permanent fifteen-year olds who think "kicking ass" is cool. They got their wet-dream in this President and won't stop until the nation's coffers are drained.



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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: Alex213]
    #5786485 - 06/24/06 12:23 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Alex213 said:
You wrote that we declared war on terrorists.

I wrote no such thing.




You sure did.  Here it is again, in its entirety.

"There isn't an enemy-state that we have declared "war" on, just "terrorists".


Good point. It's a war on an abstract noun. Those are pretty hard wars to win."
Quote:



Read your own fucking posts.

You're the one misinterpreting them, YOU fucking read them  :smile:




Learn to express yourself.  There wasn't an abstract noun in the whole post.
Quote:



Whether you were the originator of that sentence is irrelevant, you used it.


Bullshit. You have misinterpreted my post and made yourself look silly. Get over it.




Learn to express yourself.  There wasn't an abstract noun in the whole post.
Quote:



you could just as easily say that world war 2 was a war against a proper noun, i.e. the Axis Powers

The axis powers can be defined tho. Germany, Italy, Japan. The war had a clear goal and objective. Can you give break down who we are fighting in the "war on terror" and what our objective is?




In the "War on Terror" (metaphor) we are "fighting" (metaphor) to prevent non-state bad actors from attacking (not metaphor)us and our interests.  As to your assertion that these "wars" (metaphor) are hard to "win" (metaphor) who the fuck are you to say?  Do you think you get to decide the parameters of "victory"  (metaphor)? 

If you want to indulge yourself in pointless linguistic masturbation ("It's a war on an abstract noun."), that's fine.  Stupid, but fine.  As the general blithering idiot but brilliant linguistic theorist Chomsky said, "You are confusing the map with the territory."  Wake up.  The map does not take on every characteristic of the territory nor does the territory change to fit the map.  It is utterly assinine and childish to equate the two.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: Crobih]
    #5786925 - 06/24/06 04:27 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

the answer to the title ? is .."if there is ever a point where the neocons no longer need "terrorists" as a pretense to impose power.. or if they should ever find something that better suits that purpose"...


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OfflinePsilocybeingzz
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: Crobih]
    #5787431 - 06/24/06 07:59 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

SHORT answer, .

When you STOP asking questions and just BEHAVE!, this is all for your own good, now get back to work.
(its all about power and distraction in other then the need for real concern, the rest of it is a gong show, look over here while we take your rights away, we have to invade such and such, or WE wont be free, anyone that cant see this is already in the sand)


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OfflinePanoramix
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Re: When is war against the terror going to end? [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
    #5788049 - 06/24/06 11:16 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

"Besides, I thought it was renamed to the global struggle against extremism or something."

Last I'd heard, the Pentagon was calling it The Long War. I think that answers the title question nicely, too.

It'll end when Americans get back into the streets and resume demonstrating their disapproval of this 3. Bureaucratic Cluster Fuck (I like '5. An attempt to bypass reason and foster repression' too, but 3 is way catchier) in numbers that make it politically untenable for a candidate hoping to get re-elected to support it. At least that's what I'd like to think, I have been known to be hopelessly naive.

As for the debate over this Bureaucratic Cluster Fuck's justification and reasons for being, I think the song I'm listening to as I write this speaks to that quite nicely...
'You will die for the glory of... shit, I can't put my finger on it. But it's big... big and legitimate, justifies women and kiddie killer shit, iller it builds..." -- Aesop Rock, Winners Take All

"Can the troglodytes govern themselves peacably?"
Hurray for racism! It's not like they haven't in the past, imperial powers just have a habit of overthrowing Iraqi leaders who suggest re-intergrating Kuwait into Iraq.


--------------------
Don't worry, I'm wrong.

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