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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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poll ..9/11 conspiracy theories...
    #5769725 - 06/19/06 08:26 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

there are basically 4 different versions of 9/11..

1) the "official" version..which i need not explain further...
2) incompetence ..bush&co had advance warning of the attacks..which they failed to act on out of sheer negligence...
3) LIHOP ..bush&co had advance warning of the attacks..which they failed to act on deliberately..since tsuch an attack was in fact crucial to their policy agenda (re ..rebuilding americas' defenses)...
4) MIHOP ..bush&co had a direct hand in planning and executing the attacks...
which of the above do you subscribe to?...
You may choose only one


Votes accepted from (06/19/06 08:26 PM) to (No end specified)
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll



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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: poll ..9/11 conspiracy theories... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #5769730 - 06/19/06 08:28 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I believe and have always believed in the negligence option.

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OfflineNgalyod
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Re: poll ..9/11 conspiracy theories... [Re: Redstorm]
    #5769789 - 06/19/06 08:49 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

3) LIHOP .. bush&co had advance warning of the attacks..which they failed to act on deliberately..since tsuch an attack was in fact crucial to their policy agenda (re ..rebuilding americas' defenses)...

Seems the most plausible as it gave them any excuse to do whatever they wanted ... war on Iraq, Patriot Act, murdering people for oil etc. etc. etc.

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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: poll ..9/11 conspiracy theories... [Re: Ngalyod]
    #5769896 - 06/19/06 09:20 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Cant take one more theory........losing grip.......


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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OfflineAldous
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Re: poll ..9/11 conspiracy theories... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #5770871 - 06/20/06 12:41 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I voted MIHOP, but I wouldn't bet on the fact that whoever planned this in the US also initiated it. It seems plausible to me that the initial plot came from Al-Qaeda (which is or is not infiltrated by the CIA, but I would think it is), and that instead of trying to prevent it from happening, the US did everything (plant bombs in the towers etc.) to make it succeed beyond Al-Qaeda's wildest dreams. But in my view there was a definite and very active helping hand from US authorities.

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: poll ..9/11 conspiracy theories... [Re: Annapurna1]
    #5770905 - 06/20/06 12:51 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

"LIHOP." I certainly don't think Bin Laden needed any convincing or help from the Bush administration in order to attack the US, but I also think that the attacks fit perfectly into the neoconservative agenda. I'm still not entirely willing to dismiss either the ignorance theory or the "MIHOP" theory, but I don't definitely don't think Bush was acting in a way befitting of the leader of the free world.


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InvisibleGabbaDjS
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Re: poll ..9/11 conspiracy theories... [Re: Aldous]
    #5770911 - 06/20/06 12:52 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

The US definetly had information that would make them believe that an attack would happen.

I believe right now that they have information that an attack will happen. But they dont know where, when or who. I wouldnt claim neglegence because I dont believe that we knew all that much.

On the other hand the US most likely had a hand in planning this along with AlQueida leaders but those who did the attack hod no clue they were working for us.


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OfflineRosettaStoned
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Re: poll ..9/11 conspiracy theories... [Re: GabbaDj]
    #5771337 - 06/20/06 03:00 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I don't know weather they had an active hand or just left the door wide open on purpose hoping it would happen. Leaving the door wide open on purpose basically makes you an accomplice if you know the very persons planning something and prevent FBI agents from arresting them.

But alas it is speculation, all we can know for sure is it ranges somewhere between direct hand and purposeful negligence. So I chose LIHOP.


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"Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: poll ..9/11 conspiracy theories... [Re: RosettaStoned]
    #5771503 - 06/20/06 04:57 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I picked incompetence, though I wish it had been called negligence. I suspect that the administration, at various levels, knew that something was going to happen in the near future. I don't think they knew exactly what was going to happen, or the magnitude of the attack. A "Custer's last stand" type of screw-up... "Heh, they are only a few indians... what can they possibly do to us?" The idea being that a little attack would drive the US public to support action in the middle east, thus raising oil prices, thus making lots of money for anybody with ties to the oil industry. The real question; were Bush & Co played, or are they all really that stupid.


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InvisibleGabbaDjS
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Re: poll ..9/11 conspiracy theories... [Re: Seuss]
    #5771768 - 06/20/06 08:34 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

The real question; were Bush & Co played, or are they all really that stupid.




They were the players. Lets not forget that Bush Jr basically picked up where daddy failed. Daddy didnt have strong enough support and wasnt good enough at telling lies to get the job done so the powers that be rigged two elections, forced the hand of America with 9/11 and daddy Bush finally gave is son a hug.


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GabbaDj

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OfflinePhred
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Re: poll ..9/11 conspiracy theories... [Re: Seuss]
    #5771936 - 06/20/06 10:08 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I picked incompetence, though I wish it had been called negligence.




Could it be called incompetence? Perhaps, but that's setting the bar pretty damned high.

Intelligence isn't perfect. The fact of the matter remains that this operation was set up while Clinton was still in charge. In fact, it was begun before Bush was even selected as the Republican party candidate, much less elected. Does that mean I blame Clinton or the Clinton administration for "incompetence"? Much as I disliked Clinton, I cannot. This is one time (and not the first time by a long shot) where the bad guys did enough things right to pull it off. That does happen, you know. The US government is neither invincible nor omniscient.

Everyone here seems to make much -- IN HINDSIGHT -- of various indications that ObL and his Merry Pranksters were up to something. What no one seems to recognize is that there was never -- at ANY point -- enough ACTIONABLE intelligence to do anything to stop the plan once it got under way absent a massive and prolonged violation of civil liberties. Could it have been PREVENTED? Possibly -- if Clinton had acted on the several opportunities presented to him to capture or kill bin Laden while he was still in office. But even then it's not a given the plan would have fallen through. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Atta and the rest of them might have carried on regardless.

But could it have been STOPPED given the information available at the time, under the legal restrictions in place at the time, under the political climate which prevailed at the time? Nope.

There was an entire fairly lengthy thread dealing with this a couple of years back. Let me see if I can find it and bump it.



Phred


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Offlinekotik
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Re: poll ..9/11 conspiracy theories... [Re: Phred]
    #5771945 - 06/20/06 10:12 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

i only say made it happen.. because we essentially armed and trained the very people we consider terrorists.

whether it was intentional or not, we did, in fact Make It Happen. and i happen to believe it was intentional.


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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OfflinePhred
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Re: poll ..9/11 conspiracy theories... [Re: kotik]
    #5771960 - 06/20/06 10:20 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

i only say made it happen.. because we essentially armed and trained the very people we consider terrorists.




Trained them to hijack airliners and fly them into buildings? Umm... nope. Some of the mujahadeen the CIA assisted in Afghanistan were taught how to handle sidearms and even rocket launchers, how to best to shoot down helicopters, etc. But none of the training handed out by the CIA had anything to do with how to get past US airport security or how to break into the cockpit of a civilian airliner or how to fly a 757.

Try again.



Phred


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: poll ..9/11 conspiracy theories... [Re: Phred]
    #5771973 - 06/20/06 10:24 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Nope, of course we didn't train them to do that. They learned all those skills in the US. Of course, we had no idea they would be taking fight courses in the US at the time, though, right? :wink:

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Offlinekotik
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Re: poll ..9/11 conspiracy theories... [Re: Phred]
    #5771994 - 06/20/06 10:30 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Quote:

i only say made it happen.. because we essentially armed and trained the very people we consider terrorists.




Trained them to hijack airliners and fly them into buildings? Umm... nope. Try again.
Phred




someone hasnt been paying attention to the news...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1567815.stm

how about you just search for the terms "florida terrorist training" on google.  you can even just focus on AP outlets to get the idea.

of course the CIA wouldnt have taught them anything about controlling the masses, right?  you can't win them all, phred.  :rolleyes:


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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OfflinePhred
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Re: poll ..9/11 conspiracy theories... [Re: Redstorm]
    #5772000 - 06/20/06 10:31 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Right.

The problem was that the US at that time believed they would act honorably -- that they would appreciate the assistance they received from the US in ousting the godless infidels who had invaded Afghanistan. Sadly, the US has learned that Muslims are even quicker at forgetting past assistance than they are at exploding into seething and ululating and rioting over "insults" to Allah.




Phred


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Offlinekotik
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Re: poll ..9/11 conspiracy theories... [Re: Redstorm]
    #5772001 - 06/20/06 10:31 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Nope, of course we didn't train them to do that. They learned all those skills in the US. Of course, we had no idea they would be taking fight courses in the US at the time, though, right? :wink:




beat me to the punch.  :mad2:    :thumbup:


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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OfflinePhred
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Re: poll ..9/11 conspiracy theories... [Re: kotik]
    #5772006 - 06/20/06 10:33 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

What's your point, kotik?

Are you saying the students enrolled in the various flight schools should have been expelled from those schools by the US government? Would you care to cite for us the relevant laws under which the US government could have taken that action?



Phred


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: poll ..9/11 conspiracy theories... [Re: Phred]
    #5772015 - 06/20/06 10:36 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Are you serious? Clearly various students should have been expelled. They were terrorists for Christ's sake. If we can detain suspected terrorists indefinitely, surely it's not asking too much to kick them our of flight classes.

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Offlinekotik
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Re: poll ..9/11 conspiracy theories... [Re: Phred]
    #5772020 - 06/20/06 10:38 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

FBI Knew Terrorists Were Using Flight Schools
By Steve Fainaru and James V. Grimaldi
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, September 23, 2001; Page A24

Venice Flight School Linked to CIA
February 25--Venice, Florida

follow-up:
http://www.madcowprod.com/02212006.html


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