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OfflineSirTripAlot
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A.C.L.U. almost limited speech?
    #5768374 - 06/19/06 05:01 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

This is bassackwards............


http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/19/us/19aclu.html?_r=1

A.C.L.U. Warned on Plan to Limit Members' Speech

By STEPHANIE STROM
Published: June 19, 2006
A lawyer in the New York state attorney general's office informally warned the American Civil Liberties Union that his office had concerns about proposed standards that would limit the group's board members from speaking publicly about policies and internal operations, according to three board members.

A.C.L.U. Board Members Debate Limits on Their Own Speech (June 18, 2006)The executive committee of the A.C.L.U. board was told about the warning on Friday, the day before the board met in New York for its quarterly meeting. Board members, who discussed the proposals on Saturday but took no action, had no knowledge of the warning and the meeting ended on Sunday without the executive committee revealing it.

"What if we had voted to approve the proposals?" said Wendy Kaminer, a board member who has criticized the proposals and other actions taken by the board and the A.C.L.U. leadership over the last couple of years. "We had a need and a right to know that if we passed them, we might get into trouble with the attorney general's office."


Nadine Strossen, the board president, confirmed in an e-mail message that "someone" in the attorney general's office had called in his personal capacity to tell the A.C.L.U. of concern about the issue and that the executive committee had discussed it.

"It determined that these details were not germane to the board's general discussion of the issues raised" in the report on the rights and responsibilities of board members that contained the controversial proposals, she wrote.

Ms. Kaminer, who is leaving the board, and two other board members who were granted anonymity because they were afraid to speak publicly given the pending proposals, said an executive committee member had told them that Gerald Rosenberg, the assistant attorney general in charge of the New York State charities bureau, recently had spoken with Antonia Grumbach, a lawyer for the A.C.L.U., and told her the proposals might raise issues for his office if they were adopted.

In a telephone interview from France, Mr. Rosenberg declined to say whether he had spoken with Ms. Grumbach. "There is no pending investigation of the A.C.L.U. by my office at this time," he said.

Speaking in general terms, Mr. Rosenberg said he would have concerns if any nonprofit organization limited its board members' ability to speak publicly about policies. "If a public charity did adopt as a bylaw or a binding resolution that barred its directors from discussing public policy outside the boardroom, it might well be of concern to us," he said.

The proposals are in a report on the rights and responsibilities of board members that includes a description of the bylaws pertinent to directors and proposals that address conflicts of interest. But the board discussion on Saturday was primarily on the provisions related to board members' ability to speak publicly about the A.C.L.U


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“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: A.C.L.U. almost limited speech? [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5768421 - 06/19/06 05:13 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

ACLU = Free speech.....

As long as it's speech we agree with....


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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: A.C.L.U. almost limited speech? [Re: lonestar2004]
    #5768544 - 06/19/06 05:42 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Any ACLU supporters out here?


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: A.C.L.U. almost limited speech? [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5768646 - 06/19/06 06:15 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Any ACLU supporters out here?



I am, but like any organization, they're bound to suffer from misguided policies or bad management every now and then. I think that on the whole, they do a great service for America and the Constitution.


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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: A.C.L.U. almost limited speech? [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5769104 - 06/19/06 08:16 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Is limited internal, organizational speech a negation of free speech? I dont think so. If you join an organization voluntarily, you must abide by the rules, no?


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: A.C.L.U. almost limited speech? [Re: Vvellum]
    #5769316 - 06/19/06 08:51 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Do as I say, not as I do?


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Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: A.C.L.U. almost limited speech? [Re: Seuss]
    #5769892 - 06/19/06 11:18 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Hypocrisy defined.

You can burn the flag......but don't talk smack about the ACLU!!!
Thats not protected speech!!!!!


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.”


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: A.C.L.U. almost limited speech? [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5770281 - 06/20/06 12:55 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Hypocrisy defined.

You can burn the flag......but don't talk smack about the ACLU!!!
Thats not protected speech!!!!!



Of course people are allowed to talk smack about the ACLU. You're doing it right now. But apparently they don't like their employees to do so. That is not Constitutionally protected speech, as it is an employer setting conditions for employment.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: A.C.L.U. almost limited speech? [Re: Silversoul]
    #5770298 - 06/20/06 12:59 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

As much as I find the ACLU (for the last few decades -- they did some good stuff in the past) to be a completely ridiculous organization, I can't bring myself to fault them for this particular policy. They have the same right as any other employer to set conditions of employment, as Silversoul pointed out already.

This is no big deal.




Phred


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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: A.C.L.U. almost limited speech? [Re: Phred]
    #5771248 - 06/20/06 04:24 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

yup, no big deal.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: A.C.L.U. almost limited speech? [Re: Vvellum]
    #5771496 - 06/20/06 06:46 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

> They have the same right as any other employer to set conditions of employment, as Silversoul pointed out already.

Absolutely. However, I find it both ironic and sadly amusing that an organization that claims a mission to protect freedom of speech from oppression would set limits upon what their own employees are allowed to say.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: A.C.L.U. almost limited speech? [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5771586 - 06/20/06 08:14 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I guess this falls on one's rights to obfuscate.


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InvisibleOJK
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Re: A.C.L.U. almost limited speech? [Re: Seuss]
    #5771616 - 06/20/06 08:39 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
Do as I say, not as I do?




To be honest, as a general rule (not in this context) I think there's nothing wrong with "Do as I say, not as I do" as a maxim provided one admits one is acting wrongly.

For instance, if someone told me they were addicted to crack cocaine, and that although they would continue taking it because they found it too hard to stop they would advise me not to, I'd be inclined to listen to that advice.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: A.C.L.U. almost limited speech? [Re: OJK]
    #5771752 - 06/20/06 10:28 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

"She knew her speech as valedictorian of Foothill High School would be cut short, but Brittany McComb was determined to tell her fellow graduates what was on her mind and in her heart.

But before she could get to the word in her speech that meant the most to her -- Christ -- her microphone went dead.

The decision to cut short McComb's commencement speech Thursday at The Orleans drew jeers from the nearly 400 graduates and their families that went on for several minutes.

However, Clark County School District officials and an attorney with the American Civil Liberties Union said Friday that cutting McComb's mic was the right call. Graduation ceremonies are school-sponsored events, a stance supported by federal court rulings, and as such may include religious references but not proselytizing, they said.

They said McComb's speech amounted to proselytizing and that her commentary could have been perceived as school-sponsored."
http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2006/Jun-17-Sat-2006/news/8014416.html

As much as I abhor religion this seems a bit much. "could have been perceived as school-sponsored"? Could have? Only by an abysmal idiot. More pandering to morons. In the end the girl said,

"although some people might not like the message of her speech, it was just that, her speech.

"People aren't stupid and they know we have freedom of speech and the district wasn't advocating my ideas," McComb said. "Those are my opinions.

"It's what I believe."

The ACLU has gone off the tracks and outlived its usefulness. They stifled her speech because they were afraid that it would lead a few retards to think that the school sponsored religion. This isn't even a case of some person's free speech rights against another person's right to freely practice their religion. It was some nonsensical leftist notion that anything permitted by government is endorsed by government. Only a leftard would think that.


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