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michael_lifshitz
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Bliss, Awareness, Goals and Philosophies.
#5766030 - 06/18/06 11:23 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Lately I have been thinking and discussing with my friend about an issue which I feel is somewhat important.
It seems that many eastern philosophies comment on a merging into the infinite, and losing one's ego and simply being.
It seems to me, that if one were to lose their ego and awareness, they would not exist. The universe exists, it is, it simply is. However, we have the wonderful gift of awareness, which seems to me to be far too precious to give up simply for harmony.
Bliss, is that the idea? I mean, a rock is ultimately blissful. It is what it is, it is just being, it is perfect. But do I really want to be a rock, do I want to not live?
I simply can't get around this concept in my head. Why would I give up awareness to merge with something inifnite when that infinity already exists without me, and instead I can add something to it by existing as me?
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thatiAM
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Re: Bliss, Awareness, Goals and Philosophies. [Re: michael_lifshitz]
#5766137 - 06/18/06 11:48 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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The point is not to stop living. You do exist here in a personal form, but the realization is that you are not the story of "me". You realize that you have always been the infinite, the absolute, god, etc. It is not a loss of awareness or ego. It just releasing your attachment to ego.
You are right, awareness is a wonderful gift. So be aware. It does not go away. When you realize it you are still aware of this body and its story, you just see that it is just a story.
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niteowl
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Re: Bliss, Awareness, Goals and Philosophies. [Re: michael_lifshitz]
#5766223 - 06/19/06 12:04 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
michael_lifshitz said: It seems that many eastern philosophies comment on a merging into the infinite, and losing one's ego and simply being.
It seems to me, that if one were to lose their ego and awareness, they would not exist.
Have you ever experienced a time in your life, that you loose track of time? Been so engrossed in something that you forget who "you" are....playing a video game, reading a book, working, chilling with friends......you look at your watch and HOURS have gone by and you never realized it?
That is what they are referring to. Loosing your "self" in the moment. That is when you are truly "living" You aren't worried about your troubles, you are just enjoying the moment.
Focused awareness, provokes a sense of bliss, by being in tune with your surroundings...."you" disapear and become the moment
That is the secret to enjoying your life. To live each moment in a state of blissful awareness.
-------------------- Live for the moment you are in nowDon't be bogged down by your pastDon't be afraid of what lies in your future
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
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Re: Bliss, Awareness, Goals and Philosophies. [Re: michael_lifshitz]
#5766388 - 06/19/06 12:56 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Why would I give up awareness to merge with something infinite when that infinity already exists without me, and instead I can add something to it by existing as me?
This is one thing I have never wavered on either, not wanting to give up my sense of individuated awareness/soul self. It's too awesome a gift is right. I've gone back and forth and been on the fence with a lot, have done 180s and 360s with almost everything related to my understanding of body, soul, mind, and spirit, yet not with this.
You can become aware of yourself as interconnected with the one, higher consciousness, the harmony while in an individuated state that can think independently of it as well. Maybe some people think we want to stay in some form of separation ego and thats not it for me.
Harmony is an ideal I strive for, fail at still, getting better at. Tuning in with the universal mind and heart is an ideal I strive for 24/7, fail at still, getting better at though. I want that yet just while I am able to experience it and KNOW that I am.
If you truly merged and completely lost your sense of self as an individuation, you wouldn't know it anymore, you wouldn't experience the bliss, you would feel nothing and be nothing because there would be no more you.
Either they haven't thought that through yet, or that they have and it is the goal. Like you, I don't know why someone would want to commit permanent suicide of the soul self either.
The best I can do is understand them through the reasons why people commit suicide with the physical self-they are tired of living, in to much pain to cope, wanting to escape something, feel a loss of hope, have no reason to be anymore, in too much guilt and feel they don;t deserve to live, or feel like no one understands them.
I think the majority who have it as a final goal and present themselves as enlightened gurus truly are just tired because they tend to also be the ones who believe in things like life is a struggle and therefore full of suffering.
I think the next majority are those who see themselves as martyrs for some cause against separation ego.
Indeed separation ego is what causes the struggling and suffering that truly tires us. Goals to move out of that I understand.
Individual self awareness that knows its interconnection wit all of life and spirit is different.
I agree, spirit just is and always is and there is only One we all share in, are a part of, tap into it and draw from . The soul self is what allows for us to have individual experiences and memory records of our personal journeys. I think its the separation stuff people tire from.
Even if you know yourself and experience yourself to be interconnected with everything and the vast majority around you do not, that can be a very lonely place to be. Perhaps that is what seems worse then not being at all.
How ironic that when one heals the separation from source and remembers themselves again, how all of a sudden, you can feel so cut off from the life and people around you.
One can be a very lonely number when it is in separation ego or (not relating itself to others) while re-connected to Source/Spirit in memory.
You see, when one starts relating itself to the others, that loneliness is eased. When it meets a number two and says , "hey you are me two times, and it meets a number 3 and says, "hey you are me 3 times" and when it starts relating to all of the other me's out there both feeling separation from source or feeling cut off of from others, diminishes.
I'll be honest when I say, people who get to a certain point in remembering and reconnecting, still can have some superior ego play involved. They start thinking, I re-member, I know, I am enlightened and I am better and above others. And that can keep them feeling cut off from others in the physical. Though connected to source, The ONE they are still lonely because One is lonely by itself.
Sarcasm- "Superior to others ego forbid they stoup down to relate to a mere mortal human. Best to just off the soul self to ease the loneliness."
Some people don't see it as a choice and believe that is what happens when we die in the physical. They truly believe the soul dies along with it and the merge takes place right then and there and any sense of self no longer exists in conscious awareness.
So be it. Those who believe that are not the same as those who realize it as a choice of free will and believe they can opt a merge to not exist anymore (through a merge/reabsorption) as a goal. I have my doubts if it even is possible.
I say that mostly because, in moments when all separation ego is dissolved, it's such an awesome feeling, you would loose that experience and feeling if you completely lost your sense of self to it.
That makes no sense, figuratively and literally.
I'll wrap it up here. Just wanted to let you know that I can relate to what your saying, except for the part about having to give up life for harmony.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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gettinjiggywithit
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Re: Bliss, Awareness, Goals and Philosophies. [Re: niteowl]
#5766413 - 06/19/06 01:03 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I just read what Iamthat and nightowl added to this and agree with how they see it too.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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slaphappy
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The physical is a manifestation of the separation ego.
-------------------- The argent messenger of truth beyond truth, the antithesis of life, cruel and bleak as interstellar space, pulseless and frozen as absolute zero, dazzling with the frost of irrefragable logic and unforgettable fact.

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Gomp
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Re: Bliss, Awareness, Goals and Philosophies. [Re: michael_lifshitz]
#5767609 - 06/19/06 11:05 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Losing your "ego" ..
Is much like loosing you "liver" ..
"..words, are but words!" -unknown :p
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capliberty
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Re: Bliss, Awareness, Goals and Philosophies. [Re: Gomp]
#5768093 - 06/19/06 01:48 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Losing your "ego" ..
Is much like loosing you "liver" ..
huh
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palmersc
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Re: Bliss, Awareness, Goals and Philosophies. [Re: Gomp]
#5768528 - 06/19/06 03:38 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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haha
Gomp
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fireworks_god
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Re: Bliss, Awareness, Goals and Philosophies. [Re: michael_lifshitz]
#5771569 - 06/20/06 06:03 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
michael_lifshitz said: It seems that many eastern philosophies comment on a merging into the infinite, and losing one's ego and simply being.
And what is this ego that you speak of? There is a difference between the self and an illusory sense of self.
The self exists naturally, as the culmination of all of your experience. It expresses itself in each moment, and is constantly changing. An illusory sense of self is the mind's concept of the self, who the mind thinks one is.
"Simply being" would refer to directly perceiving reality for what it is, which would also refer to directly experiencing being the self.
See, the mind's sense of self is bunk in that it is based on preconceived notions of who you are, and if one's perceptions of the moment are obstructed by such, then one is less aware of who one is, as one is, right here, right now.
If one wishes to sense the self, one simply needs to bring awareness into the moment and directly experiencing the act of being oneself. It is not necessary for the mind to attempt to define its sense of self, which, in fact, would not be a "sense" at all... more like a definition. A definition belies the present experience of being oneself, and it will naturally impede progress and growth as the self.
No one is referring to loss of awareness, either. In fact, it is being promoted that one brings greater degrees and higher levels of awareness into oneself.
Eh? 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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michael_lifshitz
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Re: Bliss, Awareness, Goals and Philosophies. [Re: fireworks_god]
#5771578 - 06/20/06 06:08 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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This is all true, and also how I have been looking at things and what I agree with personally.
However, it seems to me that many eastern religions are striving towards a goal of brahman or nirvana or whatnot, which seems to entail a merging with the infinite, like a typical ego loss experience on a psychadelic drug. If this is true, then it would appear that in a state like that (I have never been there personally, with or without drugs, so I can't really say) it would be impossible to consider the experiencer as an experiencer, I don't even understand how there can be an experiencer in a realm of inifinites.
Perhaps though, this is not the actual goal, but just an important experience to allow one to live in their self more harmoniously with the universe?
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fireworks_god
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Re: Bliss, Awareness, Goals and Philosophies. [Re: michael_lifshitz]
#5771591 - 06/20/06 06:17 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I think that the nature of being is such that the mind cannot truly understand it, or replicate it, and cannot imagine how a human being would be able to function without being centered in the mind. 
The phenomenon that is the self unfolds naturally, and I think that perhaps the more energy we put into awareness, and simply experiencing and observing this, the more the self will flow, interacting with reality, to levels and heights unforeseen, and that we clumsily interfere with this with our thoughts and our concepts of identity. 
It is difficult to imagine exactly what such states would pertain to, specifically without the experience of being within such states, so it is hard to say exactly what is being conveyed by these paths.
However, it is to be noted that, if the path pertains to being more aware of one's direct perceptions of reality, and is a path of realization and understanding, then the path can only lead to natural, meaningful things. 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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