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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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America's broke
#5757134 - 06/16/06 12:28 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I have recently been forced to arrive at the conclusion that the vast majority of Americans are completely destitute. More impoverished than most 3rd world countries.
"What!?" You might say, "Americans aren't poor, they have big bank accounts, and fancy cars, and nice houses... WTF are you talking about?"
Well, yeah, Americans have a lot of shit. But they're still poor. I mean, utterly broke and destitute.
"Modern man suffers from a kind of poverty of the Spirit."
Some of the richest people I know have no money in the bank. They don't own nice cars, and they live in shitty apartments. But they are rich beyond their wildest dreams! Though their plate looks bare, they contain within themselves a vast wealth of imagination and spiritual power. They keep their riches on the inside, where they count.
"Store ye not your treasures on Earth, where they can be robbed and looted by thieves and tyrants. Instead, store your treasures in Heaven." Heaven takes notice of good deeds, and adds them to your ledger. For all the good you have done in this world, a pile of wealth awaits you in the next life.
The next time you see some evil motherfucker in a luxury car with one hand on his trophy wife's titty, sittin on the riches of Croeseus, think about how empty he must be inside. Pity him, for though he is rich in a very finite sense, Karmicly and Spiritually, he is broken, destitute, and starving. When he dies, his material wealth will be reappropriated by the world, and his soul (if he even has one left) will be subject to great torture as punishments for the wounds he has inflicted upon mankind, just so he could get rich.
Remember kids, true wealth comes from within. Wealth that comes from without is hollow and unlasting. Though you can be wealthy in both ways, one is obviously more important than the other. So don't get your priorities out of whack!
Now I know a lot of poor people are out there going: "Fuck you, J. Being materially poor sucks. If this is my blessing, count me out. Besides, you don't even know what its like to be poor materially."
Well, actually there were several times in my life in which I have had to subsist on a dollar a day. I've eaten so many Wendy's dollar menu items for 479 days in a row that I can't even think about Wendy's without gagging now. I remember digging through my couch for hours for $.35 to make a phone call, because my phone was disconnected. I remember having to tamper with my electric box to get free electricity because I couldn't afford to pay the bill during the dead of summer.
But you know what? I treasure those experiences, the perspective and depth they have given me, not to mention the strength and wisdom they have imparted to my character. So don't be such a player-hater. I've been poor too, and I found a way out of poverty that didn't involve compromising my moral values.
The wealth I have now feels so good because I earned it. I could have easily been evil and had what I have now a long time ago. But I chose to stay good, be patient, gain strength and wisdom, and earn my wealth the right way. And that is how I have kept my vast spiritual wealth in tact.
I see others who are wealthy spiritually, and I see their struggle, their stumbles and falls, their frustration with living in a material world that seems to only reward evil behavior. To them I say: "Stay the course, don't give up, don't sell out, resist, unlearn, defy! But most of all, realize you are far more wealthy than any Rockefeller. You can take the material pain and poverty, because in your soul you have deep pockets."
thanks for your time.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: America's broke [Re: DoctorJ]
#5757144 - 06/16/06 12:30 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I remember I talked to this Indian lady once, and she said she didn't remember anyone ever being depressed in India. The first time she really saw depression was in America. She said that Americans have too much, and it creates a sort of spiritual poverty.
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: America's broke [Re: Silversoul]
#5757199 - 06/16/06 12:53 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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you'd never be depressed either if you were sitting on God's shoulder, as many Indians do.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: America's broke [Re: DoctorJ]
#5757413 - 06/16/06 01:47 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Though you can be wealthy in both ways, one is obviously more important than the other. So don't get your priorities out of whack!
Excess in either direction at the grave expense of the other can lead to imbalanced living here.
I agree, place the inner wealth first in priority and keep it there. If you can add comfortable outer wealth to it and remain happy and not so much you become a possessive greedy slave to it all, where it would start taking away from the inner wealth, then, I say, fine, you struck up a good balance.
Neat story Silver!
It reminds me of how recently, I was getting down on the Do Jang I go to. It's run down looking and they don't run the AC high if at all. Its like a freaking sauna in there while we are doing hard core work outs without water.
My family and I decided to go check out another place. WOW! Made an awesome first impression. This place was buff and super stylin, everything was so new and maintained to perfection. The AC was cranked up high. We stayed for a bit watching a class and chatting with the receptionist and Master Instructor/Owner.
Upon deliberating afterwards if we would switch or stay, we found ourselves weighing this out-(price was the same and not an issue anyway)
The people at our Do Jang, which prides itself on practicing the traditional arts, bust smiles so easily and there's lots of laughter and respect shown to others there. They are so relaxed, humble and joyful and very enthusiastic about the arts and wanting to share it all with others. The owner there is like a Mr. Miaggi with lots of inner wealth, power and wisdom.
The people at this other place, where they pride themselves of teaching the westernized, modernized version of the arts, "selling it to be better) were grumpy and or pretentious, just really looking down their noses at others with the look of constipation on their faces. Their practice was so mechanistic too.
So, with paint peeling, floors needing a good sweep, and sauna temps, we stay where there is joy in the hearts of others, where the wealth that matters as first priority to us, is.
It was funny, the first person to speak up on the comparative deliberations was my daughter and she said, "The vibe is better at Masters Academy(current Do Jang)" 
Then my husband who NEVER uses words like vibe and likes nice well kept things too, followed her by saying," Yeah, the vibe at Hiembergers sucked." :rofl2)
I concurred with them and the decision to stay with the shithole building, for the inner wealth of the people in it, was made that fast.
Sure, we all would prefer for a place to have both, however, I think we have our priorities in place. I'm glad we checked out another because we have a much better appreciation for our Do Jang now.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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leery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
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" When he dies, his material wealth will be reappropriated by the world, and his soul (if he even has one left) will be subject to great torture as punishments for the wounds he has inflicted upon mankind, just so he could get rich. "
Don't you believe in forgivness? That mans pain must be so deep that he deserves not torture, but redemption and love.
There are many wealthy people that realize they must heal themselves spiritually somehow, and some do it by, despite being sucked into excess.... loving their famillies very deeply and try to be very devoted to giving love.
The suffering is unenedurable, and no man should have to go it, all should be released, healed, shown love, and shown the right way.
May that man in his mercedes, and I ask this generically of all men To God, may he realize what he needs in order to be spiritually rich, and cast aside his ecesses so that not only can he enjoy the material world, but he can use his excess to help those who are very materially hungry, and going without because he is going with.
May he be touched with compassion.
You can't hate these dudes...... you can't hate anyone, it just doesn't make any sense to......
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: America's broke [Re: leery11]
#5757714 - 06/16/06 03:15 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
leery11 said: " When he dies, his material wealth will be reappropriated by the world, and his soul (if he even has one left) will be subject to great torture as punishments for the wounds he has inflicted upon mankind, just so he could get rich. "
Don't you believe in forgivness? That mans pain must be so deep that he deserves not torture, but redemption and love.
There are many wealthy people that realize they must heal themselves spiritually somehow, and some do it by, despite being sucked into excess.... loving their famillies very deeply and try to be very devoted to giving love.
The suffering is unenedurable, and no man should have to go it, all should be released, healed, shown love, and shown the right way.
May that man in his mercedes, and I ask this generically of all men To God, may he realize what he needs in order to be spiritually rich, and cast aside his ecesses so that not only can he enjoy the material world, but he can use his excess to help those who are very materially hungry, and going without because he is going with.
May he be touched with compassion.
You can't hate these dudes...... you can't hate anyone, it just doesn't make any sense to......
I agree. DoctorJ, your theology is a bit too "Old Testament" for my taste. I believe in a compassionate, loving God, not a vengeful one.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: America's broke [Re: leery11]
#5757721 - 06/16/06 03:18 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I think you meant to reply to Dr. J. That was his post.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Yeah, when I saw that I thought, hey Jiggys gone balistic. Not exactly your style.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: America's broke [Re: Icelander]
#5757772 - 06/16/06 03:42 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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How bout it. I don't pity anyone driving a Mercedes around getting some fine ass if that floats their boat. They're not hurting anyone either.
For me, I personally feel best when I keep my first priority for keeping inner wealth built up and if I can keep that maintained, then I allow myself to bring on some outer as well. If I find it has to come at the expense of my inner wealth, fuck it.
You get that icky feeling of being in the process of making a Faustine Bargain. If something has to come at the cost a piece of my soul, I don't want or need it. Thats when I know I am getting into the excess margins of life.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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leery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
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Quote:
gettinjiggywithit said: I think you meant to reply to Dr. J. That was his post.
oh yes I see now that it looks misleading.
Well I understand J's perspective...... at the same time it is the human perspective that the best we can do is love everyone, and hope that God fits into our ideals of loving forgiveness.
I dunno much about God... but I do know the fear and lamentable guilt that comes from in a realization of the absurd frailty of humanity, and understand that there is where the desire to have God, to have Jesus, and to be righteous comes from.
most people wall up these strong negative emotins never dealing with them, perhaps that is how hell happens in the first place. I don't know much..... it is just so ugly and terrible. No one deserves it.
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: America's broke [Re: leery11]
#5758179 - 06/16/06 05:34 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Oh yes.
God is love
All you need is love
starving children don't exist
the holocaust never happened
blah blah blah blah.
you think God doesn't encompass pain and punishment as much as he encompasses love and forgiveness?
tell that to the rape victim
or the abused child
or Job
or the Jews
tell them that,
and they'll laugh and call you 'newbie'
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: America's broke [Re: DoctorJ]
#5758274 - 06/16/06 06:10 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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you know what I think? I think the reason people want to edit the punishment out of existence is because they have guilty consciences and are afraid to pay the toll for their own crimes.
The just have nothing to fear from Justice. If you fear justice, its your own fault.
and now, here is a poem written by some friends of mine. Chew on this a little, eh?
BTW, the albumn this was on was released on 9-11-2001
Disciple
Drones since the dawn of time Compelled to live your sheltered lives Not once has anyone ever seen Such a rise of pure hypocracy I'll instigate I'll free your mind I'll show you what I've known all this time
God Hates Us All, God Hates Us All You know it's true God hates this place You know it's true he hates this race
Homicide-Suicide Hate heals, you should try it sometime Strive for Peace with acts of war The beauty of death we all adore I have no faith distracting me I know why your prayers will never be answered
God Hates Us All; God Hates Us All He Fuckin' hates me
Pessimist, Terrorist targeting the next mark Global chaos feeding on hysteria Cut throat, slit your wrist, shoot you in the back fair game Drug abuse, self abuse searching for the next high Sounds a lot like hell is spreading all the time I'm waiting for the day the whole world fucking dies
I never said I wanted to be God's disciple I'll never be the one to blindly follow
Man made virus infecting the world Self-destruct human time bomb What if there is no God would you think the fuckin' same Wasting your life in a leap of blind faith Wake the fuck up can't ignore what I say I got my own philosophy
I hate everyone equally You can't tear that out of me No segregation -separation Just me in my world of enemies
I never said I wanted to be God's disciple I'll never be the one to blindly follow I'll never be the one to bear the cross-disciple
I reject this fuckin' race I despise this fuckin' place
-Slayer
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leery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
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Re: America's broke [Re: DoctorJ]
#5758442 - 06/16/06 07:20 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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so do you or not believe in God?
If so, how does one redeem himself?
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: America's broke [Re: leery11]
#5758674 - 06/16/06 08:42 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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that poem was an expression of momentary sentiment.
it was only posted to show that yes, there is a dark side to God. Yes, there is a dark side to Christ.
The world around you should be proof of this.
Just because you live in a nice place doesn't mean the world is nice.
While you are eating and drinking and being merry there are horrible atrocities occuring in this world, many of which are funding our standard of living.
As humans, its OUR JOB to clean up this mess of tyranny and injustice. God isn't going to just come down, wave his magic wand, and fix all of our mistakes like everyone wants him to. Hey everyone who wants God to just wipe everyone's slate clean: Quit bossing God around and do your own fucking laundry.
How else do you expect to be free? One who is indebt to God is not free.
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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Re: America's broke [Re: DoctorJ]
#5758810 - 06/16/06 09:24 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I think the ultimate problem with Americans is what seems to be an addiction to escapism, using entertainment as a means to this end. Those who value intellect, freedom, spiritualism, or even nationalism, seem to be outweighed by a horde of, ironically, sexually repressed hedonists. I don't think it is a coincidence that the richest (in terms of money) and most famous people in our society are musicians, actors, and athletes.
I had something else to say too... but I fergot.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Quote:
Those who value intellect, freedom, spiritualism, or even nationalism, seem to be outweighed by a horde of, ironically, sexually repressed hedonists.
The practice of pseudo-Hedonism, wherein one indulges in material excess, but derives no real pleasure from the experience, is a natural outgrowth of sexual repression. Freud had that much right. 
Actually, Freud accurately predicted modern society as the inevitable result of sexual repression. When the libido is denied healthy expression, it seeks other, darker avenues. Violence, overeating (and consequent obesity), workaholism, alcoholism, and "conspicuous consumption" are all the shadow-expressions of the libido.
True hedonism is not practiced through overindulgence, but moderation. The greatest pleasure is in full appreciation of the sensual and mental experiences available to us. When you immerse yourself in an experience, you do not crave more and more and more, but reach satiation. The pseudo-hedonist simultaneously pursues and rejects pleasure, and thus is never satiated.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: America's broke [Re: DoctorJ]
#5760481 - 06/17/06 12:20 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
DoctorJ said: you know what I think? I think the reason people want to edit the punishment out of existence is because they have guilty consciences and are afraid to pay the toll for their own crimes.
I do not fear for my own soul, but I have compassion for those who are lost or misguided. I do not think God would condemn them to eternal torture because I personally would not condemn them to such, and I am a mere mortal. If I can be that compassionate, then certainly God's mercy is greater than that. I do not deny that there is some form of divine justice. Gevurah is just as much a part of the Tree of Life as Tiferet. But God's wrath is not spiteful, but merely meant to help lead us to righteousness. I believe God wants us all to reach Christhood, and he will do what is necessary to help people get there. But this is not vengeance.
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: America's broke [Re: Silversoul]
#5760596 - 06/17/06 01:11 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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God does not demand vengeance. People demand vengeance. God is not spiteful. People are spiteful.
God is a servant to people. As long as the people want negative things, God will provide.
I think its pretty dumb that people want negative things, but hey, you gotta give the people what they ask for, right? Even moreso, gotta give people what they deserve.
Anyway, my main point is that people dig their own holes, then blame God for being dirty.
Should Jesus be a mighty warrior that smites the wicked and delivers Justice to the faithful? Or should he be the ultimate pushover and provide forgiveness for all?
Depends on who you ask. The faithful want Justice. The unfaithful want a free pass.
Whose call do you think God will answer?
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: America's broke [Re: DoctorJ]
#5760850 - 06/17/06 03:22 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I fail to see how God is subservient to the will of the people. Maybe he is not all-powerful, and thus is not able to stop us from carrying out our will, but I disagree with the notion that he is here to do our will. I think it's the other way around.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Re: America's broke [Re: DoctorJ]
#5760968 - 06/17/06 04:03 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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"Some of the richest people I know have no money in the bank."
Figures.
"Well, actually there were several times in my life in which I have had to subsist on a dollar a day. I've eaten so many Wendy's dollar menu items for 479 days in a row that I can't even think about Wendy's without gagging now. I remember digging through my couch for hours for $.35 to make a phone call, because my phone was disconnected. I remember having to tamper with my electric box to get free electricity because I couldn't afford to pay the bill during the dead of summer."
No wonder America is broke with deadbeat thieves like you stealing electric from the power company. I hope you electrocute yourself the next time you try to connect for free. Instant Karma gonna get you.
Zap.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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