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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

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Senate Panel Advances U.S. Flag-Burning Ban Proposal
    #5754707 - 06/15/06 06:31 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

The irony of ironies is that the US flag STANDS for your right to desecrate it. The next logical step is for our elected morons to prohibit criticism of our government. :thumbdown:

To paraphrase Voltaire: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

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June 15 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee approved a constitutional amendment that would empower Congress to outlaw flag burning, setting the stage for an election-year debate about ``desecration'' of the national symbol.

The measure, passed by a vote of 11-7, has already been approved by a two-thirds majority in the House of Representatives. To become part of the Constitution, the amendment must be passed by the same margin in the Senate and ratified by 38 state legislatures.

The measure would overturn a 1989 Supreme Court ruling. The justices, voting 5-4, struck down a Texas law barring flag burning, ruling it restricted freedom of expression guaranteed by the Constitution. Supporters argued today the proposed amendment would restore the power of Congress to decide the flag-burning issue, not unelected judges.

``If we can protect the bald eagle, another symbol of our nation, from killing, I think we ought to be able to protect our flag,'' said Texas Republican Senator John Cornyn.

Utah Senator Orrin Hatch, a Republican, said he believed more than 67 senators, or two-thirds, would support the measure if they were ``allowed to vote their consciences.''

Both sides predict a close Senate vote. Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid of Nevada supports the proposed amendment. The Senate's No. 2 Republican, Kentucky Senator Mitch McConnell, opposes it.

Grant of Authority

The proposal would give state legislatures seven years to ratify the proposed amendment. If it became part of the Constitution, the House and Senate would have to pass separate legislation to ban flag burning, mutilation or other forms of desecration.

``The point is to have a general grant of authority to Congress to legislate in this area,'' said Arizona Republican Jon Kyl.

Before the high court's 1989 decision, 48 states outlawed flag burning.

All 10 Republicans on the Judiciary Committee voted in favor of the amendment. Seven of the panel's eight Democrats opposed it. Democrats accused Republicans of using the debate to score political points in an election year.

Delaware Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr., who has supported legislation to ban flag burning, argued that the amendment was too vague because it doesn't define desecration.

The amendment would ``leave to the authority of the government to make a subjective judgment as to whether or not the action taken relative to the flag is a violation of the law,'' Biden said.

`Very Skimpy Bathing Suit'

That could permit the prosecution of women on beaches ``wearing a very skimpy bathing suit'' decorated with the flag's stars and stripes, he said. ``Is that desecration of the flag?''

``When you get to a bikini or a bathing suit, it's not a flag, it's a bikini,'' said California Senator Dianne Feinstein, the only Democrat to support the measure.

Biden argued that the measure amounts to a ``de facto amendment'' of the First Amendment, which guarantees freedom of speech, by allowing the government do decide what was desecration.

``Protecting the flag is not going to prevent people from expressing their point of view,'' Feinstein said.

Biden said he would support an amendment that allowed Congress to ban ``burning, mutilation and trampling'' of the flag.

``If it's not some political stunt, let's do it,'' he said. The panel rejected Biden's proposed change on a voice vote.

The House approved a proposed flag-burning amendment five times, most recently in June 2005 on a 286-130 vote. The Senate last voted on a flag-burning amendment in 2000, falling four votes short of the 67 required to pass.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&sid=a2AiIAUKmzyQ&refer=top_world_news


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Re: Senate Panel Advances U.S. Flag-Burning Ban Proposal [Re: Diploid]
    #5754922 - 06/15/06 07:33 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Protecting God from homosexuals... protecting the flag from fire... when is the government going to protect my basic rights from cazy lawmakers?

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OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
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Re: Senate Panel Advances U.S. Flag-Burning Ban Proposal [Re: Diploid]
    #5754983 - 06/15/06 07:48 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

What a crock of shit. As long as you are not breaking any laws that prohibit dtarting fires, why does it matter that you are burning a large piece of cloth?

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Offlinegregorio
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Re: Senate Panel Advances U.S. Flag-Burning Ban Proposal [Re: Redstorm]
    #5755166 - 06/15/06 08:37 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

The elections must be getting close. It seems like this issue pops up about every two years.

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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Senate Panel Advances U.S. Flag-Burning Ban Proposal [Re: gregorio]
    #5755291 - 06/15/06 09:12 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

The sad/funny part of all this. Did you know that when a flag gets old and tattered, the only way to properly destroy it is to burn it. Thats right, all American flags will be cremated at the end of their days.

So, this is going to pose a problem if it passes.

How do you legally destroy a flag, now that it is illegal to burn it?











If this isn't an attack against free speech..............I don't know what is.


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Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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OfflineEkstaza
stranger than most
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Re: Senate Panel Advances U.S. Flag-Burning Ban Proposal [Re: niteowl]
    #5755399 - 06/15/06 09:42 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
If this isn't an attack against free speech..............I don't know what is.



I'll burn a flag to that


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YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.

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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Posts: 4,587
Re: Senate Panel Advances U.S. Flag-Burning Ban Proposal [Re: Diploid]
    #5755424 - 06/15/06 09:51 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Well shit, this is gonna ruin my American flag burnin bitchin beer bashes!

"If we can protect the bald eagle, another symbol of our nation, from killing, I think we ought to be able to protect our flag,"

The American flag: soon to be an endangered species.  :strokebeard:

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OfflineRosettaStoned
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Re: Senate Panel Advances U.S. Flag-Burning Ban Proposal [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5756126 - 06/16/06 02:11 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Congressmen need to just get out some tall hats, some long suit coat tails, put on some tap dancing shoes...would be a hoot.

They could even replace the middle section with a big stage and have tim magraw come sing "I'm an american soldier" on c-span.


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"Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa

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Offlinegregorio
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Re: Senate Panel Advances U.S. Flag-Burning Ban Proposal [Re: RosettaStoned]
    #5756260 - 06/16/06 04:26 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I have allways looked at this as being more of a property rights issue. If I go out and buy a flag with my own money and decide to take it out in the backyard and burn it---that is my business. It's my property.

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Re: Senate Panel Advances U.S. Flag-Burning Ban Proposal [Re: gregorio]
    #5756278 - 06/16/06 04:48 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Time to start printing the flag on toilet paper... wonder how they feel about flushing the soiled flag instead of burning it.


The real problem here has nothing to do with flag burning. The problem is that congress has outlived it's usefulness. After the first few years of lawmaking, what new laws need to be made? Because they have nothing better to do, they sit around and debate stuff that makes them feel important. We need to change the constitution so that all laws expire after a few years, with a year or two of grace time for congress to enact a new law to replace the old one. They are not allowed to extend a law, but instead they have to rewrite it, redebate it, revote on it, and have it resigned by the president. If we keep congress busy doing busy work, perhaps they will leave us alone to run our own lives as we see fit. Who has time to worry about the legality of gay sex before midnight when the law against rape is about to expire.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Senate Panel Advances U.S. Flag-Burning Ban Proposal [Re: Diploid]
    #5756406 - 06/16/06 06:55 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I don't see how anyone could read that and continue not being an anarchist.


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This space for rent

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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Registered: 05/21/02
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Re: Senate Panel Advances U.S. Flag-Burning Ban Proposal [Re: niteowl]
    #5756676 - 06/16/06 09:33 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:If this isn't an attack against free speech..............I don't know what is.




pushing the flag aside..the broader message this sends is that amerikkkans have lost patience with any ideology that does not square with the corporatist right....


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Senate Panel Advances U.S. Flag-Burning Ban Proposal [Re: Annapurna1]
    #5758032 - 06/16/06 04:43 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
Quote:

niteowl said:If this isn't an attack against free speech..............I don't know what is.




pushing the flag aside..the broader message this sends is that amerikkkans have lost patience with any ideology that does not square with the corporatist right....




No it doesn't and your conclusion is basicly absurd. And by basicly, I mean it in the most fundamental way, as in there is nothing remotely relevant in what you extrapolated to be the message. Get help. Soon.

Voltaire gives me wood.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Senate Panel Advances U.S. Flag-Burning Ban Proposal [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5758106 - 06/16/06 05:13 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

in that case..then why else would they want to impose political censorship as such?...please endarken us further...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Senate Panel Advances U.S. Flag-Burning Ban Proposal [Re: Annapurna1]
    #5758307 - 06/16/06 06:26 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Who is this mystical corporate "THEY" oh Princess of Perceived Darkness?
Corporations have nothing to do with this latest stupidity.


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Senate Panel Advances U.S. Flag-Burning Ban Proposal [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5758506 - 06/16/06 07:37 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Don't you see? Don't you see!? Flag burning, obviously, reduces the amount of flags. Following supply and demand, this allows businesses to charge higher rates for their endangered commodity. In light of the recent legislation it seems clear that THEY want the prices of flags to be low. Probably so everyone can buy more flags, which they've undoubtled dusted in mind-control powders. Don't let THEM fool you! THEY use flags to control us! Ahhhh!
etc.

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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Senate Panel Advances U.S. Flag-Burning Ban Proposal [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5758634 - 06/16/06 08:30 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I am all for flag burning......I want to know the people who do it.....ex specially in my presence..........


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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Offlinekotik
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Re: Senate Panel Advances U.S. Flag-Burning Ban Proposal [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5758702 - 06/16/06 08:51 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)



--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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Invisibleohmatic
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Re: Senate Panel Advances U.S. Flag-Burning Ban Proposal [Re: kotik]
    #5759806 - 06/17/06 05:32 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

ahahahhahahahahahahahahhahahaha :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


--------------------
:penis: MONOTUB tek :sun: HEATBOMB tek :penis:

RIP #cultivation! ....can't associate? well FUCK U !

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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Senate Panel Advances U.S. Flag-Burning Ban Proposal [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5760514 - 06/17/06 12:37 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

The only reason I would burn a flag would be if they made it illegal.


...or if it was cold and I needed the heat.


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This space for rent

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Offlinebeatnicknick
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Re: Senate Panel Advances U.S. Flag-Burning Ban Proposal [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #5760580 - 06/17/06 01:02 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

What do the republicans have to say about this? Where's Phred with his 15 paragraphs of pure bullshit that he's hired to say?


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I don't think for myself. I think as though I'm explaining my thoughts to someone else. I'm concerned only for those listening.

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OfflinePhred
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Re: Senate Panel Advances U.S. Flag-Burning Ban Proposal [Re: beatnicknick]
    #5760638 - 06/17/06 01:27 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I'm not a Republican, but my reaction to it is --

Meh. No biggie. It's certainly not the last time such an amendment was introduced. It likely won't be the last. It stands no chance in hell of ever being written into the Constitution anyway, since it would be the only one limiting what the people may do as opposed to limiting what government may do. The only other amendment that met that definition was the one responsible for prohibition, and that one got repealed.

Republicans are as capable of making empty political gestures to mollify their base constituencies as Democrats are.



Phred


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Senate Panel Advances U.S. Flag-Burning Ban Proposal [Re: Phred]
    #5761026 - 06/17/06 04:22 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I would so totally go to a gay marriage if there would be flag-burning but otherwise no.


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This space for rent

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Invisibleshroomydan
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Re: Senate Panel Advances U.S. Flag-Burning Ban Proposal [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #5761691 - 06/17/06 08:08 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

:lol:


I got a really good laugh from reading this thread.

Desecrate - "To violate the sacred character of"

Sacred - "Dedicated to or set apart for the worship of a deity.
Worthy of religious veneration: the sacred teachings of the Buddha.
Made or declared holy."


Those who think it is possible to desecrate a national flag must by definition assume that the flag is sacred. If a flag is sacred, then somebody seems to be confusing church and state, which of course Jesus prohibited. "Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and give unto God what is God's". 

It is possible to desecrate a church; It is possible to desecrate the grave of a holy person ; It is possible to desecrate a holy object (communion chalice), but it is not possible to desecrate a national flag, because a national flag is a political symbol; it is not sacred.

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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Senate Panel Advances U.S. Flag-Burning Ban Proposal [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5763397 - 06/18/06 06:07 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I am all for flag burning......I want to know the people who do it.....ex specially in my presence..........

I would gladly burn a flag in front of your home.

WTF are you gonna do agout it..............cry????


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Senate Panel Advances U.S. Flag-Burning Ban Proposal [Re: shroomydan]
    #5763401 - 06/18/06 06:08 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

....it is not possible to desecrate a national flag, because a national flag is a political symbol; it is not sacred.

Well said :bow:


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Senate Panel Advances U.S. Flag-Burning Ban Proposal [Re: shroomydan]
    #5763766 - 06/18/06 09:48 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

shroomydan said:
:lol:


I got a really good laugh from reading this thread.

Desecrate - "To violate the sacred character of"

Sacred - "Dedicated to or set apart for the worship of a deity.
Worthy of religious veneration: the sacred teachings of the Buddha.
Made or declared holy."


Those who think it is possible to desecrate a national flag must by definition assume that the flag is sacred. If a flag is sacred, then somebody seems to be confusing church and state, which of course Jesus prohibited. "Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and give unto God what is God's". 

It is possible to desecrate a church; It is possible to desecrate the grave of a holy person ; It is possible to desecrate a holy object (communion chalice), but it is not possible to desecrate a national flag, because a national flag is a political symbol; it is not sacred.




Given this, it is by definition impossible for me to desecrate anything, church, temple, grave, whatever, as I hold nothing sacred.


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