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76degrees
Apprentice

Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 350
Loc: Middle Earth
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
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Lids tight Vs. Loose
#5754323 - 06/15/06 05:15 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I thought the teks did a poor job explaining this bit. I recently sterilzed my substrate/jars with the lids on tight. But one of the jars had a loose lid. Consequently, the substrate became obviously too moist. So, I think tight lids are ok. But, this only my second attempt to produce mushrooms, so I know I might be wrong. Will the substrate still be sterilized with a tight lid? It is the heat, not the steam, that prduces the sterilization. Right?
-------------------- The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost, for none now live who remember it.
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crakkattak
Would you testthis pill?


Registered: 02/19/06
Posts: 471
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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Re: Lids tight Vs. Loose [Re: 76degrees]
#5754358 - 06/15/06 05:22 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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When sterilizing, keep the lids as tight a possible
And after a week or two of incubating your jars, loosen the lids a bit so that the jars can release some co2 build up inside
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J-to tha R-O-C Knomsayn!
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MustardMan
Peace Frog


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Re: Lids tight Vs. Loose [Re: crakkattak]
#5754377 - 06/15/06 05:26 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I thought you were supposed to loosen the lids while sterilizing, so that the steam can sterilize the jars faster? and tighten right when they finish in the PC...
-------------------- Wild Psilocybe Ovoideocystidiata
 Cultivated Cubensis

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76degrees
Apprentice

Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 350
Loc: Middle Earth
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
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Re: Lids tight Vs. Loose [Re: crakkattak]
#5754384 - 06/15/06 05:27 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Thanks a lot for answering my newb question. Now if someone will only answer the 3 day wait question I'll be in hog heaven!
-------------------- The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost, for none now live who remember it.
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76degrees
Apprentice

Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 350
Loc: Middle Earth
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
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Re: Lids tight Vs. Loose [Re: 76degrees]
#5754417 - 06/15/06 05:34 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Wait, MustardMan just got me confused again. Grr. Someone please give me the most correct answer.
-------------------- The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost, for none now live who remember it.
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crakkattak
Would you testthis pill?


Registered: 02/19/06
Posts: 471
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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Re: Lids tight Vs. Loose [Re: 76degrees]
#5754490 - 06/15/06 05:49 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I am almost positive your suppose to tighten the lids when sterilizing
Can someone verify this?
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J-to tha R-O-C Knomsayn!
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76degrees
Apprentice

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Posts: 350
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Re: Lids tight Vs. Loose [Re: crakkattak]
#5754513 - 06/15/06 05:54 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yes crakkattak, fastfred pretty much answered everything from my initial post:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5753821/an/0/page/0
"I say tighten the lids somewhat. Not too tight though as mentioned. A lot of people used to say that you had to have the holes in the lids untaped and/or that you should turn the lids upside down so they don't seal the jars up, or that you had to leave the rings loose or your jars would explode. All of that is false. You can crank the lids down as tight as you want. You're not going to cause any problems as long as you do the PCing right. i.e. Don't remove the weight until it's depressurized at a normal rate.
As for waiting 3 days. It IS a good idea if you have any sterilization problems. If you wait a few days you'll find out which ones didn't sterilize properly. If you're getting many jars going bad then you need to find out why. Waiting 3 days will help you figure out if it's your PCing or your inoculating. If it's your PCing then you also need to start waiting 3 days to catch the bad jars or else improve you PC method somehow.
I wouldn't waste the three days though unless you don't think you can do it right.
5 shrooms to start you off and for not asking the same questions that get asked three times a day and are covered in every tek written.
-FF"
-------------------- The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost, for none now live who remember it.
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hyphae
born to grow


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Re: Lids tight Vs. Loose [Re: 76degrees]
#5754566 - 06/15/06 06:00 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Again don't crank on the lids guys understand heat expands cold contracts now think what do you suppose will happen? The bands will shrink very tight! I've done this without even cranking that hard but apparently it was hard enough. Experience is your best teacher!
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy. Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is Gas Exchange vs. FAE "We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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Mushroom_Mike
AGAPE LOVE

Registered: 02/23/04
Posts: 532
Loc: Australia
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Re: Lids tight Vs. Loose [Re: hyphae]
#5754602 - 06/15/06 06:10 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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have the lids on "snug" before sterilizing. dont be shy. i have a scar on my palm from a blister that formed when trying my hardest to open up a dozen jars that i didnt leave loose enough. i mean i even left them a bit loose and they still wouldnt open. i actually had to end up prying out the lip of the rings to get them open that shit sucked.
so leave them plenty loose, but not so loose their open, i mean it aint hard to figure out, right?
--------------------
always remember.... to respect the fungus!
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Tippinthru
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Re: Lids tight Vs. Loose [Re: 76degrees]
#5754754 - 06/15/06 06:43 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Grain jars have one sort or another provision for gas exchange.
RIGHT........ 
When sterilizing grain spawn jars, IF THE LID IS TIGHT.
Steam from the wet grains (inside the jars) will exhaust out through the filter material on the lids.
Which can deform (enlarge) the filter material and saturate it with nutrient solution (from the grains inside the jars).
YOU DON'T WANT THAT TO HAPPEN. (least possible)
So, you leave the lids about 3/4 of a turn loose. Then, tighten, as / or while removing the jars from the PC.
Also, as others have stated.
PC'ing spawn jars with TIGHT LIDS, can lead to lids that are near impossible to unscrew.
Which can result in you using the edge of a heavy butcher knife & hitting it on the lids edge, to budge them loose.
Which can lead to accidents & loss of blood, should a jar break.
-------------------- Perfection is attained by slow degrees; it requires the hand of time... [
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FGL
Stranger

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Re: Lids tight Vs. Loose [Re: Tippinthru]
#5819620 - 07/04/06 11:27 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tippinthru said: Grain jars have one sort or another provision for gas exchange.
RIGHT........ 
When sterilizing grain spawn jars, IF THE LID IS TIGHT.
Steam from the wet grains (inside the jars) will exhaust out through the filter material on the lids.
Which can deform (enlarge) the filter material and saturate it with nutrient solution (from the grains inside the jars).
YOU DON'T WANT THAT TO HAPPEN. (least possible)
So, you leave the lids about 3/4 of a turn loose. Then, tighten, as / or while removing the jars from the PC.
Also, as others have stated.
PC'ing spawn jars with TIGHT LIDS, can lead to lids that are near impossible to unscrew.
Which can result in you using the edge of a heavy butcher knife & hitting it on the lids edge, to budge them loose.
Which can lead to accidents & loss of blood, should a jar break.
And the same for L.C Jars?
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mycopsycho
Tit Inspector.


Registered: 06/17/04
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Re: Lids tight Vs. Loose [Re: 76degrees]
#5819639 - 07/04/06 11:34 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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leave the lids loose, and cover with foil while in the PC. after they have cooled you tighten the lids with the foil still on top then once tight you remove the foil. simple.
-------------------- I Am The Sickness. Diploid: I think adults have a right to make stupid decisions and it's nobody else's fucking business.
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RogerRabbit
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Re: Lids tight Vs. Loose [Re: mycopsycho]
#5819681 - 07/04/06 11:51 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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I suppose you guys are talking about pf jars with a verm barrier and the holes in the lid taped? Otherwise, I don't understand. I use grains with the standard two piece mason jar lids(two or three 1/16" holes drilled) and synthetic filter disks. I always tighten the lids fully, then use foil to keep water from dripping on the filter from above. This is not a problem. The lids always come loose very easily. Be sure to NOT leave lids loose on grain jars. Any air exchanges that occur as the PC cools will allow contaminants to possibly slip around the filter disk or tyvek as opposed to passing through it. On a pf jar, the verm barrier will stop these contaminants whether the lid is loose or tight. On grain jars, be sure to fully tighten the lids. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Omnicracker
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Re: Lids tight Vs. Loose [Re: RogerRabbit]
#5819693 - 07/04/06 11:56 AM (17 years, 6 months ago) |
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regarding grains, RR is right. but ive done it both ways and i get equally few contaminated jars. tyvek filters dont warp or distort when hot air passes through them, IME.
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