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Offline76degrees
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Registered: 06/08/06
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To wait three days or to not...
    #5754304 - 06/15/06 05:10 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I've begun a three day wait to make sure my jars are all properly sterilized. It's an optional step listed on the Shroom Wizard's tek. But, someone here told me to not do it. Isn't this a rational pre-caution to take? Won't it reduce waste by avoiding contaminated substrate? My first try was a catastrophe and set me back a couple of weeks. I really would like to be successful this time around.


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The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost, for none now live who remember it.


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Offlinesplifner180
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Re: To wait three days or to not... [Re: 76degrees]
    #5754445 - 06/15/06 05:39 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Originally posted here but it answers your question, so...

----

When you PC your jars, you're starting a race. That race is between the spores and contaminants and the goal is who can take over the jar first. By waiting to inoculate you're giving the contaminants a head-start. Your spores might still win the race but do you really want to risk your time and money?

The second issue is with your inoculate (presumably some kind of grain) drying out. The longer you wait to inoculate, the less water will exist inside your jars/bags.

So to answer your question, you could theoretically wait weeks. In reality I'd say waiting longer than a week is a bad idea. Ideally, the next day.

splif


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First Grow: Ecuador -> LC -> HPoo/Straw -> Monotub
Build a Do-It-Yourself Magnetic Stirrer in thirty minutes with no money.


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Offline76degrees
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Re: To wait three days or to not... [Re: splifner180]
    #5754497 - 06/15/06 05:50 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I think a more definitive answer may be found on my initial post.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=5754460&page=0&vc=1&PHPSESSID=#Post5754460

Now, my question to you splifner180, if the jars are sterilized there should be no race going on, right? Which is the whole point in waiting. Because if they are not sterile, I should know within 3 days. And since the jars have their lids on tight with the holes taped, there should be no loss in moisture. Correct? Or am I totally missing something. :grin:


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The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost, for none now live who remember it.


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: To wait three days or to not... [Re: 76degrees]
    #5754581 - 06/15/06 06:05 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

No, you've got the right idea. splifner180 has smoked one too many spliffs today. There is no race going on. The jars are either sterile or they're not. If they're not sterile they will fail 99% or the time even if you inoc right away. If they are sterile they'll keep for a long time and will never contaminate. They will eventually dry out if they're not sealed.


-FF


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It drinks the alcohol and abstains from the weed or else it gets the hose again. -Chemy

The difference between the substances doesn't matter. This is a war on consciousness, on our right to the very essence of what we are. With no control over that, we have no need to speak of freedom or a free society. -fireseed

"If we are going to have a war on marijuana, the least we can do is pull the sick and the dying off the battlefield." -Neal Levine (MPP)

I find the whole "my drug should be legal but yours should be illegal" mindset disgusting and hypocritical. It's what George Bush and company do when they drink a cocktail and debate the best way to imprison marijuana users. -Diploid


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Offlinesplifner180
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Re: To wait three days or to not... [Re: fastfred]
    #5755373 - 06/15/06 09:35 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

True, water retention is your biggest enemy.

It's also true that a container that is sterile and into which nothing can get will remain sterile. That's why canning fruits and veggies works in the first place. But we, as growers, do things to the jars that canners don't. Like drill holes and cover with Tyvek.

But I'll agree that my post could have been better written. Your biggest drawback by far when waiting to knock up the jars is moisture loss, which is not exactly a small problem. Your most likely introduction of contams into the jar, by far, is inoculation.

So I stand corrected. I would still advise you assume that if your jars were properly PC'd, they're sterile. But obviously that's up to you.

splif


--------------------
First Grow: Ecuador -> LC -> HPoo/Straw -> Monotub
Build a Do-It-Yourself Magnetic Stirrer in thirty minutes with no money.


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Invisiblecappa
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Registered: 02/12/06
Posts: 854
Re: To wait three days or to not... [Re: splifner180]
    #5755463 - 06/15/06 10:01 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I'm a believer in the 'racing theory'.

I'd bet that a certain percentage of the time, our average PC sessions leave beyond viable spores, endospores, and bacteria. When we PC, we are usually killing off mesophiles and psychrophiles. Their are other bacteria called thermophiles that can survive, even proccess energy/food at over 200F! Not to mention the ginormous variety of spore types on this great planet! We don't even have names for all of them! Sheesh, we're attacked from every angle when we try to sterilize.

In a perfect world, when everything went right, when only certain contams are present before we PC, when we PC correctly, then I'd agree 'sterile or not sterile'. It's too bad we don't live in a perfect world all the time though.


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Their are 10 types of people. Those that understand binary, and those who don't.
~Cappa.


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Offlinesplifner180
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Re: To wait three days or to not... [Re: cappa]
    #5755533 - 06/15/06 10:23 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Ok. I stand corrected-corrected. =)

splif


--------------------
First Grow: Ecuador -> LC -> HPoo/Straw -> Monotub
Build a Do-It-Yourself Magnetic Stirrer in thirty minutes with no money.


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OfflineMustardMan
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Re: To wait three days or to not... [Re: splifner180]
    #5755577 - 06/15/06 10:36 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Well If the spores are that valuable to you, then it won't hurt to wait a few days before inoculating... Its just, you kinda want to get a head start on growing the mycelium and also retain as much moisture in the substrates as possible.


--------------------
Wild Psilocybe Ovoideocystidiata

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OfflineChalupacabra
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Re: To wait three days or to not... [Re: 76degrees]
    #5755631 - 06/15/06 10:56 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I'd inoculate ASAP. I inoculated my jars 24 hours after sterilization. I'm still a little worried my cakes might dry out before they're fully colonized. I hope I'm not too off topic, but has anyone run into cakes that dry out too soon? Can you spray or dunk em early? I know that increases contam risk... Cheers-


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Offlinekilroy
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Re: To wait three days or to not... [Re: Chalupacabra]
    #5755706 - 06/15/06 11:17 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I think I understand what 76degrees is talking about and what ff is saying. 76degrees is triing to find out if one of his steps is messed up, because of what happened last time. FF is just giving hi mideas on how to narrow down the problem(i hope i am reading into this right). If I am right then I see FF point about wait and see if the problem is with the pc`ing by waiting. if everything in that step went right then it must be when he innoc the jars. GL


--------------------
IS NOT THE JOURNEY OF THE TRIP JUST AS IMPORTANT AS REACHING THE DESTINATION.





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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: To wait three days or to not... [Re: fastfred]
    #5755827 - 06/16/06 12:02 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

fastfred said:
splifner180 has smoked one too many spliffs today. There is no race going on. The jars are either sterile or they're not.
-FF




Not quite.

Splifner180 had it right. Total sterilization would take at least 24 hours in the PC and your grains would come out as a sticky mush. The one to two hours we use for 'sterilization' gives us a window of opportunity to get the jars colonized before the contaminants that survived the pressure cooker can get a foothold.

Don't wait three days. Instead, if you're having contamination problems, simply cook up a few extra jars and always keep a blank or two at each step that you don't inoculate. If you do a grain to grain transfer, keep one jar back that you don't use for g2g. If you experience contaminants and your blanks are contaminant free, the problem was in your sterile technique. If both the blank and the inoculated jar contaminate, the problem was in your sterilization process. By using blanks at every step, you can always narrow down the problem to exactly the step you went haywire on. Once you get your procedures down pat, you won't need to use blanks.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

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Invisiblecappa
Nerd
Registered: 02/12/06
Posts: 854
Re: To wait three days or to not... [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #5757167 - 06/16/06 12:38 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks for the backup on that one RR. I love the idea of keepin a 'control jar'. Think I'll be trying that myself.


--------------------
Their are 10 types of people. Those that understand binary, and those who don't.
~Cappa.


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Offline76degrees
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Registered: 06/08/06
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Re: To wait three days or to not... [Re: cappa]
    #5757426 - 06/16/06 01:51 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Ok, well I'm nearly convinced that I should go ahead and inoculate. However, I am now worried that I've given the contams nearly two days head start. Plus, it's nearly 90 degress in my "clean room" where the substrates are stored. I was going to wait until later in the evening so as to not risk thremal death. Also, when it's cooler isn't there less risk of active bacteria/contaminants?


--------------------
The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost, for none now live who remember it.


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Invisiblecappa
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Registered: 02/12/06
Posts: 854
Re: To wait three days or to not... [Re: 76degrees]
    #5757448 - 06/16/06 01:55 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

If they were stored cold, then that would slow any growth that was potentially in there. I say knock em up! Get R' Done!


--------------------
Their are 10 types of people. Those that understand binary, and those who don't.
~Cappa.


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Offline76degrees
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Re: To wait three days or to not... [Re: cappa]
    #5758157 - 06/16/06 05:27 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

The temperature in my clean room is fast approaching 100. The damn sun beats down on it from 1pm-Sundown and because were old fashioned we don't have A/C. I think I'm just going to wait until midnight to inoculate and and then move them into the basement where the temp will stay between 70 and 80. I just worry about contamination down there because it has a tendency to be humid and It's really messy diwn there. Yikes!


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The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost, for none now live who remember it.


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Offlinekranked
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Re: To wait three days or to not... [Re: 76degrees]
    #5758411 - 06/16/06 07:11 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

It's funny, most first timers loose the majority of their jars to contamination. I had zero contams, but I also had zero growth of any kind. It was really weird, made it hard to single out what I did wrong exactly.


--------------------
"When it went off in New Mexico, that first atomic bomb, we thought of Alfred Nobel and his hope, his vain hope, that dynamite would put an end to all war"

-Robert Oppenheimer 1945


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Offlinekilroy
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Re: To wait three days or to not... [Re: kranked]
    #5758872 - 06/16/06 09:45 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I made my first jars a little on the wet side and over half still turned out, no contams on the others just nothing at all as well. These mushrooms can be funny little things at times.


--------------------
IS NOT THE JOURNEY OF THE TRIP JUST AS IMPORTANT AS REACHING THE DESTINATION.





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InvisibleMasFina
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Re: To wait three days or to not... [Re: kranked]
    #5758902 - 06/16/06 09:55 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Same thing happend to me first time. I was using wheat berries and they are not so great. I could get them to colonate with lc, but not with multispore inoc. No contams yet for me either. We'll see how the casings go though, mixing them up in a dirty bathroom in open air made me nervous, but it's not like I'm gonna spend an hour cleaning. I hate cleaning. The pubes and dust just keep falling.


--------------------
A Good Substrate: Poo With Extras
Good Liquid Culture, Step by Step
Timer Modification
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Invisiblecappa
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Registered: 02/12/06
Posts: 854
Re: To wait three days or to not... [Re: MasFina]
    #5760654 - 06/17/06 01:33 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

** NOTE **

Unless you like pupes stuck in your teeth, DO NOT EAT MasFina's shrooms!!


:wink:


--------------------
Their are 10 types of people. Those that understand binary, and those who don't.
~Cappa.


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