Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3  [ show all ]
Offlinedoomsdayrobert
Stranger
Male

Registered: 09/06/04
Posts: 118
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Definition of real "punk rock"?
    #5753034 - 06/15/06 10:30 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

It appears that I've misplaced my Punk Rock Rule Book...
There is obviously a heated debate over "punk" rock, so I am wondering who can define modern "punk rock" for those of us who are not clear on this subject. What is "real" punk rock, if it even exists?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: doomsdayrobert]
    #5753152 - 06/15/06 11:05 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

There was recently a Chips Ahoy commercial with a song that went, "Punky Chips Ahoy! Oi! Oi! Oi!"

Conclusion: Punk is dead


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefunnybunny
Saboten Bomber
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 602
Loc: Spain
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: Silversoul]
    #5753502 - 06/15/06 12:56 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah, punk's been dead for a long time.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblelsdandfrisbee
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/09/05
Posts: 1,177
Loc: da projects
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: funnybunny]
    #5753579 - 06/15/06 01:25 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

The rock and roll hall of fame did a pretty damn good job explaining punk rock. drive, fly or walk to Cleveland to find your answer.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinebarfightlard
tales of theinexpressible
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/29/03 Happy 21st Shroomiversary!
Posts: 8,670
Loc: Canoodia
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: doomsdayrobert]
    #5753795 - 06/15/06 02:24 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punk_rock

"punks not dead it just deserves to die", watch mtv and you can see why


--------------------

"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks


Edited by bellylard (06/15/06 04:28 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblelsdandfrisbee
Stranger
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/09/05
Posts: 1,177
Loc: da projects
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: doomsdayrobert]
    #5753877 - 06/15/06 02:47 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

doomsdayrobert said:
It appears that I've misplaced my Punk Rock Rule Book...
There is obviously a heated debate over "punk" rock, so I am wondering who can define modern "punk rock" for those of us who are not clear on this subject. What is "real" punk rock, if it even exists?




Punk has a rule book. I thought there were no rules in punk, what a joke.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblefunkymonk
Get's down, withthe get-down.
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/29/02
Posts: 8,160
Loc: saskatchewan
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: lsdandfrisbee]
    #5754306 - 06/15/06 05:10 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

not questioning what 'punk' is would be a good start.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinebarfightlard
tales of theinexpressible
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/29/03 Happy 21st Shroomiversary!
Posts: 8,670
Loc: Canoodia
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: funkymonk]
    #5754828 - 06/15/06 07:07 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

why not


--------------------

"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSheepish
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/02/02
Posts: 10,137
Loc: Exile
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: funkymonk]
    #5755289 - 06/15/06 09:12 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Questioning things is basically one of the things that was part of the punk subculture.
But I have no idea what REAL punk rock is these days - it seems a bit washed out, with a few nuggets of gold in there somewhere.
But yeah, things like Blink182 and Sum41 aren't what I would view as punk at all, rather a very tacky watered down version of it that is just trying to use it's image to flog off mind numbing crap. Basically, I haven't heard a Blink182 song that made me think about current events or anything with depth.

Then again, most subcultures are filled with difficulties of trying to find out what is "real" rock, metal, punk, hardcore, etc. Sometimes what's not quite punk can still be valid and worthy, but is hard to truly define as "real" punk.

Either way, "MTV, get off the air".


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCptnGarden
fuck this site
Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 11,945
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: Sheepish]
    #5755486 - 06/15/06 10:08 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

DK!

yeah, mtv isn't punk its pop wearing those screw-on metal spikes.
Reagan Youth - perfect example of a good punk band.

:word:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineThank_God_4_Jack
Stranger
Male

Registered: 04/16/06
Posts: 30
Last seen: 17 years, 4 months
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: CptnGarden]
    #5755494 - 06/15/06 10:11 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I wouldnt say "Punk is Dead" its just been changed so much to where its nothing like before (Emo)

oh and i forgot to say new "punk" SUCKS its not even remotly close to how it used to sound

i recently bought Punk goes 90's and i thought it would be pretty good i take it home n listen and the first artist (if thats what u wanna call them)is fucking Emery and i listen to it and more than half of the "Artists" are emo bands claiming theyre punk, im tired of there screaming annoying music destroying airwaves and tv channels with their whining voices! :mad2: lol


--------------------
Thoughts fly away in the mushroom field
Randomly telling what's revealed
Filling my pockets cause they worth a meal
And the kingdom's over them hills


Edited by Wonkas_Shroomery (06/15/06 10:28 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: Thank_God_4_Jack]
    #5758447 - 06/16/06 07:22 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

If they can play the instruments they're whacking at well it isn't punk.

If they play another instrument they suck at then they can still be punk. The Velvet Underground will always be punk because none of them can sing although a few can play their instruments. Alright, they can all play. But none of them can sing. At all. That's why they're great. Does that mean Dylan is punk????? OI OI OI.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinedoomsdayrobert
Stranger
Male

Registered: 09/06/04
Posts: 118
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: lsdandfrisbee]
    #5776666 - 06/21/06 01:57 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

lsdandfrisbee said:
Punk has a rule book. I thought there were no rules in punk, what a joke.




There is not a punk rock rule book...


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTheCow
Stranger

Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 4,790
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: doomsdayrobert]
    #5777271 - 06/21/06 05:35 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Punk is just stripped down rock and roll


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinedoomsdayrobert
Stranger
Male

Registered: 09/06/04
Posts: 118
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: TheCow]
    #5799220 - 06/28/06 12:33 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

that sounds pretty reasonable.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineYoschie99
nomad
Male

Registered: 11/24/99
Posts: 3,149
Loc: center of earth
Last seen: 2 months, 17 days
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: doomsdayrobert]
    #5799279 - 06/28/06 12:51 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

i knew my days in the punk scene were long since dead when i talked to a few young 'punks' one day about music.. i got 'who?' to talk of the clash, DK, fugazi, subhumans, ex ray spex, etc...

i was appalled.

yos-


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCptnGarden
fuck this site
Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 11,945
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: Yoschie99]
    #5800378 - 06/28/06 06:39 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

for me punk has always just been that side of me who didnt give a fuck about shit but the music, the scene, the drugs (including alcohol), the fighting, and the women.

Raw, like under the ledge of society.

ReaganYouth can play their instruments well and they are definately a "real punk" band.

bands to check out

Gang of Four
Gangreen
Crucifucks
Buzzcocks
Sham 69
Clit 45

and if you like Oi, The Lower Class Brats, they have a fuckin junkie-ass 80's guitarist, and a fuckin clockwork orange looking guy for a singer, fuckin good band :thumbup:

pretty much anything u hear of on tv, magazines etc is not punk.

if u want REAL punk download soulseek.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineClammyJoe
Azurescen Head
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 3,691
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: CptnGarden]
    #5800395 - 06/28/06 06:45 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

70s - The Clash
80s - DK
90s+ - Leftover Crack.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCptnGarden
fuck this site
Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 11,945
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: ClammyJoe]
    #5804960 - 06/29/06 10:54 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

leftover crack is really good.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleking_cobra
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 02/27/05
Posts: 2,752
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: CptnGarden]
    #5805258 - 06/30/06 12:05 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

black flag


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCptnGarden
fuck this site
Registered: 05/13/04
Posts: 11,945
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: king_cobra]
    #5805377 - 06/30/06 12:31 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

maybe when keith was in the band, henry rollins is horrible...

tv party? :wtf:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesunit
Big Nose
Male

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 224
Last seen: 14 years, 22 days
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: CptnGarden]
    #5805400 - 06/30/06 12:36 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

who cares what kind of music it is! just listen to what you like and what you think is music.


--------------------
Well, I set my monkey on the log
And ordered him to do the Dog
He wagged his tail and shook his head
And he went and did the Cat instead
He's a weird monkey, very funky.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineInfamy456
Stranger
Registered: 01/09/06
Posts: 16
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: CptnGarden]
    #5805414 - 06/30/06 12:40 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

i was actually a real hc punk at one time. i had the leather jacket with like 5000 spiked studs in it, and a foot long green mohawk, and 14 eye long ass doc martin steel toe boots. i was listnenin to "chaos uk" and "disorder"(too very very hardcore british punk bands. i was really into the whole punk thing years ago, the real punk thing. nothing on tv today is not punk. punk was dead when i was into it, and its still dead.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLaughing_Gnome
Shroom Head
Male


Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 13
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: Infamy456]
    #11219614 - 10/10/09 07:49 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

"PUNK" died a long time ago. it died the minute it became popular. "PUNK" was about being different and individual not mowhawks and leather jackets. "PUNK" was about speaking ure own mind but all of a sudden it became manufactured anger, noone really believing in what they're saying just what people told them to believe which was exactly what "PUNK" was against. a "PUNK" could even sing about peace and love but "PUNKS" became conservative which guess wot is contridiction to what "PUNK" really was.the term "PUNK" was only coined as a way to sell fashion and music. a real "PUNK" doesnt go around with a mohawk and leather jacket they wears what ever and doesnt try to fit in with a genre. a real "PUNK" listen to classical music or whatever the fuck they want. there is also argument about what country "PUNK" started... who cares  u cant say it started here or their it was about being individual and bands from a heaps o countries were just being themselves and were then suddenly put into a genre by the media and record companies as a way to sell it like pop. also people are very critical of the sex pistols i recomend they read Rotten no irsh no blacks no dogs. i use the term "PUNK" even though i have pointed out that it is an exploitation of ones individuality, as a way for people to identify what im talkin about, i no irony irony blah blah blah


--------------------
Nothing is real, everything is good.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleChespirito
Stranger
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 3,259
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: Laughing_Gnome]
    #11223892 - 10/10/09 10:49 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

People attach so many bullshit meanings to the word punk.  The Ramones just simply wanted to create very simple pop rock music.  Thats it, theres punk.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleAmber Trichome


Registered: 09/04/09
Posts: 242
Loc: Black Mountain
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: Chespirito]
    #11225226 - 10/11/09 06:56 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

grateful dead
merzbow


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDynoo
-
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/08/09
Posts: 1,229
Loc: - Flag
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: Amber Trichome]
    #11225642 - 10/11/09 09:23 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Punk isn't dead. There are still plenty of good underground bands that tour. It appears to be bastardized and comm

ercialized, which it is, but ANYTHING seen on MTV isn't really how that music genera really is. Though there might be a little glimmer of hope because of MTV-punk. It happened to me and  know a few other people who had similar experiences. I was the kid who liked Green Day and Goldfinger and NOFX. I started researching what 'punk' was, and by the end of the year I was listening to Dead Kennedys, Misfits, Oxymoron, Buzzcocks, The Damned, Leftover Crack, Chaos UK, Blanks77, etc etc etc.

For a small percentage of people, MTV punk actually opens the door to real punk. But most of the kids who were in to Blink182, Good Charlotte, and Sum41 have moved into more "trendy" screamo bands on MTV. Let them follow their trends. Real fans of music will remain.


--------------------
-


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleConservationist
Stranger
Registered: 12/02/06
Posts: 435
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: doomsdayrobert]
    #11233182 - 10/12/09 01:24 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

doomsdayrobert said:
It appears that I've misplaced my Punk Rock Rule Book...




Punk rock is a pejorative term.

It means popular style punk like the Sex Pistols, Ramones, etc.

Nu-pop-punk is Green Day, the Offspring, Blink-182, and so on.

Punk hardcore is the underground stuff: Black Flag, Minor Threat, the Exploited.

Crustcore is punk hardcore of a fast chaotic nature, like Amebix, Discharge and Neurosis.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleAlabama Slim
Chinese river witch

Registered: 06/29/08
Posts: 7,439
. [Re: Conservationist]
    #11237178 - 10/13/09 12:27 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

.


Edited by Alabama Slim (02/02/12 01:10 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleAmber Trichome


Registered: 09/04/09
Posts: 242
Loc: Black Mountain
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: Alabama Slim]
    #11238046 - 10/13/09 07:12 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

and the grateful dead


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleAlabama Slim
Chinese river witch

Registered: 06/29/08
Posts: 7,439
. [Re: Amber Trichome]
    #11239945 - 10/13/09 02:40 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

.


Edited by Alabama Slim (02/02/12 01:10 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: Alabama Slim]
    #11239963 - 10/13/09 02:42 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Neither were the Clash.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleAlabama Slim
Chinese river witch

Registered: 06/29/08
Posts: 7,439
. [Re: doomsdayrobert]
    #11240063 - 10/13/09 02:57 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

.


Edited by Alabama Slim (02/02/12 01:10 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleAmber Trichome


Registered: 09/04/09
Posts: 242
Loc: Black Mountain
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #11240087 - 10/13/09 03:00 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

how was gd not punk? their following was largely due to word of mouth, they encouraged a do it yourself ethic, psychedelics ran rampant through the scene, and their music was ever evolving.

wait i forgot punk is about a certain look and sound, not an ATTITUDE.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleAlabama Slim
Chinese river witch

Registered: 06/29/08
Posts: 7,439
. [Re: Alabama Slim]
    #11240089 - 10/13/09 03:01 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

.


Edited by Alabama Slim (02/02/12 01:10 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleAlabama Slim
Chinese river witch

Registered: 06/29/08
Posts: 7,439
. [Re: Amber Trichome]
    #11240102 - 10/13/09 03:03 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

.


Edited by Alabama Slim (02/02/12 01:11 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleChespirito
Stranger
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 3,259
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #11240843 - 10/13/09 05:12 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Neither were the Clash.




Ha..?

Punk is something that people obsess over so much, 'no man its so much more than just simple rock n roll, its like man...a whole movement! and shit..yea man I mean you are just oversimplifying it'

:whatever:
The Ramones and New York Dolls stated that they wanted to just take the simple essence of rock n roll and remove what they saw as excess.  Thats punk.  Then later bands like Black Flag made it more complex and changed the feel of it.  Im not really a big fan of early punk as I find it mostly boring (except for the band Wire).  But people overthink it


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleAlabama Slim
Chinese river witch

Registered: 06/29/08
Posts: 7,439
. [Re: Chespirito]
    #11242647 - 10/13/09 09:20 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

.


Edited by Alabama Slim (02/02/12 01:11 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineViveka
refutation bias
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 4,061
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: Chespirito]
    #11243192 - 10/13/09 10:50 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The Ramones and New York Dolls stated that they wanted to just take the simple essence of rock n roll and remove what they saw as excess.  Thats punk.




Yeah.  And if you ask me rock was just starting to really get good when the lowest common denominator general public and the idiot youth cast their veto against it around 1976.  Soooo many good albums came out in 1976.  It was seriously probably the height of modern Western music.  But it was also the year that the critics and the "punks" finally had enough of what they saw as "excess", "pompousness", "overblown indulgence" and other such terms in pop music.

Fuck that.  Western music, North America in particular, already has an extremely weak rhythmic tradition, compared to most other parts of the world, India, China, Africa, parts of Europe, "primitive" cultures all around the globe.  Sure classical and later jazz were developing all sorts of harmonic and melodic forms but the rhythm stayed mostly duple or triplar.  And a repeating measure of compound time is kids stuff compared to the deeply complex rhythmic cycles of a lot of other cultures. And even Jazz, which was the testing ground of the avant garde and new music, the rhythm didn't develop much. 

Then, in the 60's and especially the 70's progressive rock and jazz fusion and to some extent funk started to focus on developing the rhythmic forms and incorporating world music traditions into the music, which could only enhance it.  Rock music was beginning to shape up into something really great

Then the "punk" thing happened. An embodiment of the immaturity and ignorance that's ever present especially in Western culture taken to it's fullest reach in the name of a "DYI ethic" or "pure expression" (or a foolish political sentiment) or some such nonsense.  And people will still argue that prog rock and fusion had become too "bloated" and gave way to the punk aesthetic because punk is a more authentic and expressive medium.  Bullshit.  Neither is lacking for expression, it's that one has a vocabulary and one doesn't.  It took rock back into its infancy.

Fuck punk.  I like certain elements of Black Flag, Bad Brains, Misfits, shit like that.  But for that to be put on a pedestal like it's some cultural movement or ideal way of life is just pure bullshit.  That's my rant folks.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleAlabama Slim
Chinese river witch

Registered: 06/29/08
Posts: 7,439
. [Re: Viveka]
    #11243227 - 10/13/09 10:57 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

.


Edited by Alabama Slim (02/02/12 01:12 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleChespirito
Stranger
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 3,259
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: Viveka]
    #11243302 - 10/13/09 11:10 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Western music written before the 70's had more complex rhythmic variation than I think any other culture before it.  Ive listened to a lot of world music, I cant really imagine anything more complex than what was being made in the US in the 20th century.  Listen to orchestral music like Varese where he had an entire piece of just drummers (the piece is called Ionisation), then you go onto jazz where jazz soloists like Elvin Jones created dense polyrhythmic solos.  Or Steve Reich with Drumming (out in 70 I believe).


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineViveka
refutation bias
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 4,061
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: Chespirito]
    #11243526 - 10/14/09 12:06 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Ionisation doesn't really contain any rhythmic structure.  The rhythmic forms that are posited are transitory.  They serve more as a vehicle for dynamic phrasings.  Not that Varese wasn't capable of establishing new, dominant rhythmic structures in music but that's just the point.  Varese was on the absolute edge, what he did in no way represents the dominant forms of Western music and that's my point.  If anything Varese was a reactionary whose more rhythmically expermintal output is an exception that proves my point.

The most advanced jazz drummers were using simultaneously complementary and disparate rhythmic elements to confound, if anything.  They're not developing rhythmic forms so much as they are attempting to temporarily escape the rhythmic cycle.


Look at India for instance.  The dominant form of music, the classical tradition of the region, is by default far more rhythmically complex than anything in the mainstream Western classical tradition.  A lot of this has to do with an oral vs a transcribed tradition.  This discussion gets very deep and mysterious very quickly.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleChespirito
Stranger
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 3,259
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: Viveka]
    #11244108 - 10/14/09 03:37 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Id be interested if you could post some music showing what you are talking about


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemtichael
500 channels


Registered: 03/15/09
Posts: 838
Loc: sun
Last seen: 13 years, 11 months
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: Alabama Slim]
    #11248504 - 10/14/09 07:47 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

labels labels thats all ya say good music puts itself in its own .not punk or dub or nu punk or kung fu punk.

rock = non sell out

misfists and sex pistols exploited  suck and are fake as jonas brothers

if ya dont go and hang in the streets with kids ya cant say shit
cuz your inside with your computer makeing labels for flavors of people

leftover crack , citizen fish grateful dead clash XTC and the specials

you arnt a selector


--------------------
The stars relly suck tonight
Hate is so usefull i make sandwichs out of it
:sandwich:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleAlabama Slim
Chinese river witch

Registered: 06/29/08
Posts: 7,439
. [Re: mtichael]
    #11248926 - 10/14/09 08:47 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

.


Edited by Alabama Slim (02/02/12 01:12 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineViveka
refutation bias
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 4,061
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: Chespirito]
    #11250155 - 10/15/09 12:01 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I'm glad you asked since it just led me to spending two hours watching amesome videos on YouTube looking for a good example.

I don't know how much you've already observed of Indian classical.  This is a good video for the purpose since Ravi talks a little about the rhythmic tradition and they demonstrate some Tala vocab



Here's a very distinct bit of form:



There's so much of this to explore just on YouTube there's no need to post anything else

Here's the cliff notes on the rhythmic tradition of India

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tala_(music)

It's pretty clear that this culture was interested in rhythm and studied it extensively to the point where their expression of rhythm largely informs their melodic tradition as well.  In the West, the opposite is roughly true.

BTW, thanks for turning me on to Prokofiev in this forum a couple months ago!  I think that was you.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemtichael
500 channels


Registered: 03/15/09
Posts: 838
Loc: sun
Last seen: 13 years, 11 months
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: Viveka]
    #11250319 - 10/15/09 12:32 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

punk the word dont exist its a label
punk = be your self
hippe = be your self
rocker = be your self
nerd = following the light into the dark


--------------------
The stars relly suck tonight
Hate is so usefull i make sandwichs out of it
:sandwich:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleChespirito
Stranger
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 3,259
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: Viveka]
    #11251043 - 10/15/09 04:34 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I listened to those two videos and that was pretty cool.  The second video was impressive.  That said Id agree with you that India had a much richer rhythmic tradition well before the West got started.  But you said the West before 1970's which I just cant get behind.  Jazz has blown that Indian tradition out of the water.  I mean they were incorporating Indian techniques as far back as the 50's and probably before.  Jazz drumming in the 50's 60's and early 70's is absurdly complex.





Heres Elvin Jones, the solo starts a few minutes into the video.  I find it incredible.  I'm not sure your musical background, but he incorporates 'a lot' of poly-rhythms into this solo which is why it sounds like theres no continuous flow.  The Indian solo was great and all but its just not even close to the complexity level displayed here.  Its their classical music which was lightyears beyond the Wests before the 1900's


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineViveka
refutation bias
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 4,061
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: Chespirito]
    #11257247 - 10/15/09 11:57 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Well, I was generally speaking about the rhythmic traditions and forms of music wherever it's found, not strictly classical.  Indian percussion, particularly the southern Indian rhythmic tradition is likely the most complexly polyrhythmic music in the world.  It may not sound as such since it's performed so quickly and fluidly(tabla) and only on two elements - the bayan and the dayan.  (It's also interesting to note tabla has only been around since the 18th century.)

The konnakol, which is the vocal syllabic system like the West's solfeggio, is used to create extremely polyrhythmic phrasings and compositions, which as you've now seen are complex and many in their forward moving structure, but moreover the accents and phrasings shift in such as way as the cycles progress that the complexity of subdivision and polyrhythm that develops is quite astounding and about as complex as it gets here on planet Earth. 

Elvin Jones was busting out for sure in that solo.  A lot of it was quarter note triplet, that staple of jazz polyrhythm.  The thing with jazz drum solos as I mentioned in an earlier post is that the aim is largely free time.  When this happens no rhythmic forms are really being established, which was my original focus, and actually almost the opposite is happening.

My primary interest as a practitioner of rhythm(I'm a drummer/generally musical person) as far as my own creation is concerned is to utilize uncommon, unusual rhythmic forms.  Sometimes just for the sake of doing so but ideally for the sake of the music and expansion in a general sense, so this topic is most interesting to me. 

If you play an instrument, especially one employed in rock and jazz, it's always a challenge when you pick up/sit at your instrument to not play cliches and tired forms.  I really think every musician should accept this challenge instead of indulging and lazing in established and thoroughly worn grooves, of which rock'n'roll is the most prevalent and punk the most disgraceful.


Watch Zakir Hussain go off for a few minutes:



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleChespirito
Stranger
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 3,259
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: Viveka]
    #11272457 - 10/18/09 05:05 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Well I feel like we are talking about different things.  My argument is mainly that western music before the 1970's is more complex than anything before it.  I base this off the fact that before the 70's musicians were incorporating elements from world music so if anything is in world music, you can bet some guy was aware of and used it. 

As far as polyrhythms go, I just dont hear it in those videos.  They sound more like a system of a designated number of beats, and then the person solos fitting in hits until he has reached that number of beats.  Basically like 4/4 for example, you can hit 4 quarter notes or 3 quarter and 2 8th notes.  Ultimately though I dont see how that is a polyrhythm.  That jazz solo has clear polyrhythmic elements, but if you want to call that free rhythm thats fine with me also.  Honestly I while I can appreciate the Indian stuff you posted, I got bored of it fairly quickly

However since you are a drummer Im sure you are more knowledgeable about rhythm than myself, so Id be interested in more explanation.  I play the classical guitar


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineelectrics
wave rider
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/02/08
Posts: 1,609
Loc: In front of my Computer
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: Chespirito]
    #11272521 - 10/18/09 05:18 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Still Plenty of good punk bands=
Rancid
NoFx
Hawthorne Heights
I could go on and on but to me the best punk is still the local small Bangers that play for nothing at the local Skate Park!!
And I agree Keith was the bomb Black Flag was Shit with Henry Rollins he's always been a pumped up mommy's boy!!
listen to some old school Dead Kennedy's and Dead Milkmen and you're faith shall be restored....e


--------------------
"Listen now I'm talking I've been here for weeks, waiting in this growing crowd staring at my feet, The world around me is Turning I'm just standing still, The time has come for changes do something or I will" Phish


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineViveka
refutation bias
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 4,061
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: electrics]
    #11278644 - 10/19/09 04:57 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Hawthorne Heights




:rofl2:

Anything you can say in this thread has been instantly invalidated by those two words.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinedrawde
Growerite


Registered: 10/18/09
Posts: 472
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: Viveka]
    #11280706 - 10/19/09 09:38 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

propagandhi  :rockon:


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleBridgeburner
Not spiritual at all.
Male


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 20,010
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: drawde]
    #11282124 - 10/20/09 02:51 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

stryper fucking rulez


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinebevardis
Male


Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 31
Last seen: 11 years, 7 months
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: Infamy456]
    #12431235 - 04/21/10 10:50 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Infamy456 said:
i was actually a real hc punk at one time. i had the leather jacket with like 5000 spiked studs in it, and a foot long green mohawk, and 14 eye long ass doc martin steel toe boots. i was listnenin to "chaos uk" and "disorder"(too very very hardcore british punk bands. i was really into the whole punk thing years ago, the real punk thing. nothing on tv today is not punk. punk was dead when i was into it, and its still dead.




You were just following some rules.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleBridgeburner
Not spiritual at all.
Male


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 20,010
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: bevardis]
    #12431558 - 04/21/10 11:49 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

bevardis said:
Quote:

Infamy456 said:
i was actually a real hc punk at one time. i had the leather jacket with like 5000 spiked studs in it, and a foot long green mohawk, and 14 eye long ass doc martin steel toe boots. i was listnenin to "chaos uk" and "disorder"(too very very hardcore british punk bands. i was really into the whole punk thing years ago, the real punk thing. nothing on tv today is not punk. punk was dead when i was into it, and its still dead.




You were just following some rules.



plus a scenester.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblenowwhoutthink
maybe im dreaming
 User Gallery


Registered: 07/09/09
Posts: 6,048
Loc: 805 Saint Cloud Road Mars
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #12432336 - 04/21/10 02:19 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

punk is just loud pop music...??? :lol:


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKonyap

Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 33,945
Loc: Planet Piss
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: nowwhoutthink]
    #12435571 - 04/22/10 12:19 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

took me two years to see these guys' whole show

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="
name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param>

thats how you know your fucking punk, when your OWN audience doesnt show up/gets lost.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKonyap

Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 33,945
Loc: Planet Piss
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: Definition of real "punk rock"? [Re: Konyap]
    #12441125 - 04/22/10 11:09 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

buncha clowns i found on the internet

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="
name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param>


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3  [ show all ]

Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* does anyone know alot about punk rock? trying to remember a
( 1 2 all )
Malachi 2,753 26 03/23/04 03:07 PM
by idiotek
* Hardcore (Music)
( 1 2 all )
Phobos 4,275 26 06/22/01 09:26 AM
by sparki68
* Wondering if these are real sunsets..
( 1 2 all )
Fliquid 2,404 24 08/17/04 08:13 AM
by Fliquid
* happy hardcore help JRLCC 1,811 15 01/02/05 05:06 PM
by Anisotropic
* Hardcore/Gabber mix... B4rK0d3 625 2 03/16/03 04:13 AM
by B4rK0d3
* Refused ("hardcore") Ulysees 1,231 14 09/20/03 11:31 AM
by ekomstop
* Punk
( 1 2 all )
Tasty_Smurf_House 2,122 23 12/05/04 10:05 PM
by Corporal Kielbasa
* Can some one give me a history lesson/ explanation on punk?
( 1 2 all )
Tasty_Smurf_House 3,036 21 01/10/05 01:16 PM
by Shroomism

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, automan, DividedQuantum
7,218 topic views. 0 members, 3 guests and 4 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.037 seconds spending 0.009 seconds on 14 queries.