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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Cops Dont Have to Knock, New Justices Say
    #5752998 - 06/15/06 10:14 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

This is the court you Republi-Fascists wanted. Thanks, I'm sure all the innocent people who will be shot and killed by the police as a result of this decision thank you greatly for protecting them from the horrible terrorists....

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/06/15/scotus.search.ap/index.html

Quote:

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Supreme Court ruled Thursday that police armed with a warrant can barge into homes and seize evidence even if they don't knock, a huge government victory that was decided by President Bush's new justices.

The 5-4 ruling clearly signals the court's conservative shift following the departure of moderate Sandra Day O'Connor.

The case tested previous court rulings that police armed with warrants generally must knock and announce themselves or they run afoul of the Constitution's Fourth Amendment ban on unreasonable searches.

Justice Antonin Scalia, writing for the majority, said Detroit police acknowledge violating that rule when they called out their presence at a man's door then went inside three seconds to five seconds later.

"Whether that preliminary misstep had occurred or not, the police would have executed the warrant they had obtained, and would have discovered the gun and drugs inside the house," Scalia wrote.

But suppressing evidence is too high of a penalty, Scalia said, for errors by police in failing to properly announce themselves.

The outcome might have been different if O'Connor were still on the bench. She seemed ready, when the case was first argued in January, to rule in favor of Booker Hudson, whose house was searched in 1998.

O'Connor had worried aloud that officers around the country might start bursting into homes to execute search warrants. She asked: "Is there no policy of protecting the home owner a little bit and the sanctity of the home from this immediate entry?"

She retired before the case was decided, and a new argument was held so that Justice Samuel Alito could participate in deliberations. Alito and Bush's other Supreme Court pick, Chief Justice John Roberts, both supported Scalia's opinion.

Hudson's lawyers argued that evidence against him was connected to the improper search and could not be used against him.

Scalia said that a victory for Hudson would have given "a get-out-of-jail-free card" to him and others.

In a dissent, four justices complained that the decision erases more than 90 years of Supreme Court precedent.

"It weakens, perhaps destroys, much of the practical value of the Constitution's knock-and-announce protection," Justice Stephen Breyer wrote for himself and the three other liberal members.

Breyer said that police will feel free to enter homes without knocking and waiting a short time if they know that there is no punishment for it.

Justice Anthony M. Kennedy, a moderate, joined the conservatives in most of the ruling. He wrote his own opinion, however, to say "it bears repeating that it is a serious matter if law enforcement officers violate the sanctity of the home by ignoring the requisites of lawful entry."




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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Cops Dont Have to Knock, New Justices Say [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #5753047 - 06/15/06 10:34 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Wow, I really think this is a poor decision. Busting into someone's house house unannounced is going to get police officers killed.

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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Cops Dont Have to Knock, New Justices Say [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #5753078 - 06/15/06 10:44 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

everyone laughed at me when i said that sam alito would crown bush king...hail..king george...


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Cops Dont Have to Knock, New Justices Say [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #5753394 - 06/15/06 12:14 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

"The Supreme Court ruled Thursday that police can use evidence collected with a warrant even if officers fail to knock before rushing into a home."

WHATS NEW!



"It weakens, perhaps destroys, much of the practical value of the Constitution's knock-and-announce protection," Justice Stephen Breyer wrote for himself and the three other liberal members."

I looked and just can't seem to find the phrase "knock and announce" in the Fourth Amendment Breyer is a fucking liberal idiot....

can someone point out the "knock and announce" protection in the Constitution??????


OH I get it, we should have a warning...knock knock knock open up pretty please with sugar on top this is the police with warrant to search for drugs. If you have any you have 5 seconds to get rid of it." :smile:


Honestly I don't like the decision.

We should have a chance to open the door. I have a beautiful mahogany/stained glass door that i would hate to lose....


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Offlinewilshire
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Re: Cops Dont Have to Knock, New Justices Say [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #5753423 - 06/15/06 12:26 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

i think that if they have a warrant to arrest an occupant or search the premises, there is nothing wrong with giving the police the option to enter unannounced. however... if they do enter unannounced, they must immediately identify themselves as police as soon as they enter, and they are responsible for repairing any damage caused by their unannounced entry. i don't think that is unreasonable.

and i say this as a person who was once awoken in his home by 8 police officers in tactical gear at 4 am with an arrest warrant.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Cops Dont Have to Knock, New Justices Say [Re: lonestar2004]
    #5753462 - 06/15/06 12:39 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

I looked and just can't seem to find the phrase "knock and
announce" in the Fourth Amendment




quite correct..it doesnt say "knock and announce"...but according to neocon logic..any search and seizure is prolly de facto "reasonable" too ..

Quote:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.




BTW.."seperation of church and state" doesnt occurr within the text of the US constitution either..so i guess you morons think that means that religious theocracy is also constitutionaly protected...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Cops Dont Have to Knock, New Justices Say [Re: Annapurna1]
    #5753491 - 06/15/06 12:51 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

The Fourth Amendment says "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Thats right it doesn't say the police have to knock once they have the warrant.

but I don't think its a good idea not to knock.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

Edited by lonestar2004 (06/15/06 12:53 PM)

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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Re: Cops Dont Have to Knock, New Justices Say [Re: Redstorm]
    #5753517 - 06/15/06 01:01 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Wow, I really think this is a poor decision. Busting into someone's house house unannounced is going to get police officers killed.




Not to mention that in our culture 'busting into someone else's house unannounced' is considered to be extremely rude and disrespectful.

If police have a warrant, they know they will enter the house either way. Why not just say who's at the door and avoid unnecessary and possible hostile confrontation..

Oh i almost forgot, our society has to be kept being fueled by fear and oppression, otherwise the people will retaliate and declare anarchy and there will only be chaos and no order and there will be crime and murder and human suffering. I swear, that's what TV told me.


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Offlinewilshire
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Re: Cops Dont Have to Knock, New Justices Say [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #5753556 - 06/15/06 01:15 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Why not just say who's at the door

because there are situations where that would give a person inside a chance to destroy evidence, arm themselves, take up an ambush position, release toxic chemicals, detonate an explosive, flee, harm another person in the residence, take a hostage, etc.

there are perfectly good tactical reasons why it would be best in certain situations for police to enter a building without notice. as long as they have a warrant to search the premises or arrest someone inside, immediately identify themselves as police upon entry, and are prepared to pay for any damage they do by their forced unannounced entry, why not give them the option to do this when they feel it's necessary?


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Cops Dont Have to Knock, New Justices Say [Re: wilshire]
    #5753672 - 06/15/06 01:52 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

The cops routinely break down doors, trash houses and kill pets without provocation AND without any reparations being made to families, even when the warrant was wrong and they bust down the wrong door and shoot Joe Schmoe in his la-z-boy.

You know this happens, I know it happens, Everyone knows it happens.

What makes you think they're going to start paying for doors (As this that makes it all better) now?


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Offlinededjam
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Re: Cops Dont Have to Knock, New Justices Say [Re: wilshire]
    #5753676 - 06/15/06 01:53 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

wilshire said:
Why not just say who's at the door

because there are situations where that would give a person inside a chance to destroy evidence, arm themselves, take up an ambush position, release toxic chemicals, detonate an explosive, flee, harm another person in the residence, take a hostage, etc.

there are perfectly good tactical reasons why it would be best in certain situations for police to enter a building without notice. as long as they have a warrant to search the premises or arrest someone inside, immediately identify themselves as police upon entry, and are prepared to pay for any damage they do by their forced unannounced entry, why not give them the option to do this when they feel it's necessary?




Shouldnt matter...last time I checked you are innocent until proven guilty. All this speculation about someone getting rid of evidence or whatever shouldnt matter unless they are already assuming you are guilty

Edited by gopenguins (06/15/06 01:53 PM)

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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Re: Cops Dont Have to Knock, New Justices Say [Re: wilshire]
    #5753810 - 06/15/06 02:27 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I don't disagree that there are certain situations in which there are perfectly good tactical reasons for police to enter a building unannounced. However i feel that the entrance must also be backed by perfectly good premises. It's one thing if the police already know beforehand whether the suspect owns a weapon and/or has a violent criminal history. It's a whole different situation if the suspect only has a drug use history and/or a record of laboratory equipment purchases for example. In this case there are no grounds on which the police can assume probably cause of a violent encounter and IMO should announce themselves if they do not have the appropriate reasons for an armed entry.

My problem with this ruling is that it applies to all warranted searches and does not differentiate between suspect type and suspected crime commited.


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OfflineRosettaStoned
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Re: Cops Dont Have to Knock, New Justices Say [Re: wilshire]
    #5753867 - 06/15/06 02:43 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

and they are responsible for repairing any damage caused by their unannounced entry. i don't think that is unreasonable.




:rofl2: you don't honestly believe that they will pay for 1 fucking thing they break do you?


--------------------
"Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa

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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Cops Dont Have to Knock, New Justices Say [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #5753901 - 06/15/06 02:55 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

so do the police still have to have the warrant in hand?...if they are not even required to announce their presence..then how are they to produce the warrant upon request?...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Re: Cops Dont Have to Knock, New Justices Say [Re: Annapurna1]
    #5753967 - 06/15/06 03:20 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Annapurna1 said:
so do the police still have to have the warrant in hand?...if they are not even required to announce their presence..then how are they to produce the warrant upon request?...




after the bust i would assume or while they are in the midst of breaking all your shit.


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InvisibleOJK
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Re: Cops Dont Have to Knock, New Justices Say [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #5756623 - 06/16/06 09:08 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

If a police officer enters your home without announcing himmself as a police officer with a warrant, anything you do to him to protect yourself and your property should be legal.

Equally, I think it's fucking disgusting that evidence obtained from a search that the Detroit police admitted was improper should be admissable. If you fuck up the search, anything you find is inadmissable, that's it, no ifs, no buts. Anything else and you enter the world of justifying police abuse.

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InvisibleAlteredAgain
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Re: Cops Dont Have to Knock, New Justices Say [Re: OJK]
    #5763089 - 06/18/06 02:41 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Seems like we need a police to police the police.

But then, who would police them?

Certainly not us. For fuck's sake, they won't even let us police ourselves.

Nuff said, fuck the police.


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Edited by AlteredAgain (06/18/06 02:44 AM)

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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Cops Dont Have to Knock, New Justices Say [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #5766778 - 06/19/06 03:49 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

One of the biggest problems in civilized nations is the concept held by citizens, politicians, and enforcers that thinks "criminals" are less than a person, perhaps 3/5 of one... so the remaining 2/5 is the part of them that would have been entitled to decency, respect, courtesy, free speech, etcetera.

When you commit a crime, you become viewed as shit that needs to be cleaned up.

This brings up a potential for tinfoil-hat debate:
Find a way to convict dissenters of felonies, and how they would have voted is no longer a concern.

If everyone who looked down their noses at "criminals" were to suddenly die in their sleep, the world would surprisingly become a better place.


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing

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Invisible1stimer
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Re: Cops Dont Have to Knock, New Justices Say [Re: Konnrade]
    #5766923 - 06/19/06 05:37 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

If everyone who looked down their noses at "criminals" were to suddenly die in their sleep, the world would surprisingly become a better place.



:thumbup:


--------------------
ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey.

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Offlinewilshire
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Re: Cops Dont Have to Knock, New Justices Say [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #5767390 - 06/19/06 09:39 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

What makes you think they're going to start paying for doors (As this that makes it all better) now?

because it can be required by law as a condition of a forced entry. let's say that they don't have to break down the door. it's unlocked and they damage nothing by entering. what then?


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Offlinewilshire
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Re: Cops Dont Have to Knock, New Justices Say [Re: dedjam]
    #5767398 - 06/19/06 09:41 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Shouldnt matter...last time I checked you are innocent until proven guilty. All this speculation about someone getting rid of evidence or whatever shouldnt matter unless they are already assuming you are guilty

by that line of reasoning, no one should be be arrested or searched until they've been convicted of a crime. nonsense.


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Edited by wilshire (06/19/06 09:58 AM)

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Offlinewilshire
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Re: Cops Dont Have to Knock, New Justices Say [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #5767404 - 06/19/06 09:45 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

It's one thing if the police already know beforehand whether the suspect owns a weapon and/or has a violent criminal history. It's a whole different situation if the suspect only has a drug use history and/or a record of laboratory equipment purchases for example.

why is it a whole different thing? does it not still provide an opportunity to destroy evidence?


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Offlinewilshire
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Re: Cops Dont Have to Knock, New Justices Say [Re: RosettaStoned]
    #5767413 - 06/19/06 09:47 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

you don't honestly believe that they will pay for 1 fucking thing they break do you?

is that you're only objection to this? what if they weren't allowed to break down a door, but could only nondestructively pick the lock or open an unlocked door? would you be opposed to it then? on what grounds?


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Offlinewilshire
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Re: Cops Dont Have to Knock, New Justices Say [Re: wilshire]
    #5767446 - 06/19/06 09:56 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

here are some reasons why police should be allowed to do this. it's not a complete list but i don't think i need to come up with more for you to get the point. it can prevent a person inside from:

1. destroying evidence
2. arming themselves
3. taking up an ambush position
4. releasing toxic chemicals
5. detonating an explosive
6. fleeing
7. harming another person in the residence
8. taking a hostage

i'd like to hear some reasons, other than the fact that we'd all like the chance to flush our stash before the cops come in, that this shouldn't be allowed. not all criminals are warm and fuzzy stoners you know.


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Cops Dont Have to Knock, New Justices Say [Re: Konnrade]
    #5767567 - 06/19/06 10:48 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Konnrade said:
One of the biggest problems in civilized nations is the concept held by citizens, politicians, and enforcers that thinks "criminals" are less than a person, perhaps 3/5 of one... so the remaining 2/5 is the part of them that would have been entitled to decency, respect, courtesy, free speech, etcetera.




this is getting a bit off the topic..but it raises the point that the US constitution does not assign any meaning to the "3/5" clause in article I.2.3 beyond "indians not taxed"...as such..it is still valid and open to whatever interpretation serves the interests of big govt.. big business.. etc...


--------------------


"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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Offlinewilshire
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Re: Cops Dont Have to Knock, New Justices Say [Re: Annapurna1]
    #5767621 - 06/19/06 11:09 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

this is getting a bit off the topic..but it raises the point that the US constitution does not assign any meaning to the "3/5" clause in article I.2.3 beyond "indians not taxed"...as such..it is still valid and open to whatever interpretation serves the interests of big govt.. big business.. etc...

where the hell do you get this stuff?

the 3/5 clause counted a slave as 3/5 of a person in dividing federal taxation and representation proportionally amongst the states by population. its meaning has always been quite clear. what's more, it was appealed a very long time ago. it has nothing to do with big brother, the neocons, the new world order, illuminati, freemasons, 9-11, the new world order, corporations, or whatever you're dreaming about now....

completely false and off topic nonsense. seriously... where do you get this stuff?

back on topic...


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Edited by wilshire (06/19/06 11:22 AM)

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