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OfflineDarkflame
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A New Psychedelic?
    #5752460 - 06/15/06 06:06 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Hello everyone,
I've been reading up more about my Salvia plants recently and happened upon some documents containing details about a plant called Coleus Blumei. It is supposedly used by the Mazatec just like Salvia D. I couldn't find any real information about it here so I went to erowid. There was a little information and a few trip reports. If you are interested you'll probably read them all anyway, however, I'll just sum them up -

People make tea with loads of leaves (70+) and experience mild effects.
People smoke a few leaves (say 8) and have a moderate experience.

As this plant is related, though not very, to Salvia I suspect that the active ingredient, like salvinorin A, is not water soluble and this explains the dosage difference between the two methods. It is quite possible that the compounds are in the same family yet have different effects similar to comparing DMT and 4-HO-DMT in the tryptamine family.
The effects are described as being similar to a mild psilocybe trip lasting about two hours.
I'm currently trying to obtain a plant and will try smoking the leaves and possibly try the salvinorin A extraction process on them to isolate the psychoactive compound. By the way, if I get to isolate and publish data about it first, do I get to name it?
If anyone has any experience with the this plant please post. It is available at most nurserys and by seed and is a very common plant. There are some pictures of the plant here:
http://www.glasshouseworks.com/gallery2.html
I would be grateful if we tried a community experiment to determine the effects of this plant, as a new and currently legal psychedelic would be a great boon to the psychedelic using community.

Peace
Darkflame


P.S. If this topic has already been discussed and driven into the ground I'm sorry.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: Darkflame]
    #5752486 - 06/15/06 06:34 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

it looks pretty - way prettier than the salvia divinorum plant
let us know what happens.


--------------------
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OfflineClammyJoe
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5752740 - 06/15/06 08:32 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Could be onto something


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OfflineDrGeek
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: ClammyJoe]
    #5752885 - 06/15/06 09:30 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I knew that plant sounded familiar... In my botany class, we worked with Coleus and at the end of the lab we even got to take one home, but I forgot mine! It's a really pretty plant, and now knowing that I could have tripped off it I'm even more dissapointed I forgot it.


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OfflineLSDenthusiast
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: Darkflame]
    #5753015 - 06/15/06 10:24 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Here are some trip reports on erowid, not many though. Sounds interesting. http://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_Coleus.shtml


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OfflineFruitboot
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: LSDenthusiast]
    #5753036 - 06/15/06 10:31 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Are these common to grow in US households? I had plants that my mom grew that looked very similar to some of those pictures.


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InvisibleBiG_StroOnZ
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: LSDenthusiast]
    #5753037 - 06/15/06 10:31 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)



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OfflineIamthewalrus
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: BiG_StroOnZ]
    #5753062 - 06/15/06 10:37 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

pretty sure I have some of these around my house


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InvisibleMike_yy
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: Iamthewalrus]
    #5753483 - 06/15/06 12:47 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Do we think its only Coleus blumei that contains the right chemicals ?.

I have a 'Coleus kong rose'. Its a hybrid, and a fairly new one too i think !
Coleus's normally need alot of light to grow and be healthy, this new kong rose has been bread to grow well in darker spots.

I haven't touched it yet just incase its poisonous, for all i know it could be very potent ( wishful thinking,,, :smile: )


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Offlineastraalialma
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: Mike_yy]
    #5754031 - 06/15/06 03:45 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I have been looking info on this plant too. The way that I got into it was that I saw a strange plant on a flowershop that I strangely recalled seen on the book that I had been reading: "Plants of the gods: Their Sacred, Healing, and Hallucinogenic Powers". I got home and browsed throu the book and found it to be Coleus.

here is what the book says:
Quote:



Coleus blumei Benth.
Painted Nettle

Labiatae (Mint Family)

Two species of Coleus have significance in Mexico. Related to Salvia divinirum is La Hembra ("the woman"); C. pumilus is El Macho ("the man"); and two forms of C. blumei are El Nene ("the child") and El Ahijado ("the godson"). C. blumei attains a height of 3 ft(1m) and has ..blabla size leaves..
Recently, salvinorine-like substances (diterpene) were discovered. The chemical structure has not yet been determined. It is possible that by drying or burning the diterpene, is chemical structure is modified into potent material. The chemistry and pharmacology must be researched further.





Why would they have given such names to these plants?
Would it affect a salvia trip if these two are combined in smoke or quid / extracts?

search the forum with word "coleus"

I have two small plants flowering under 24h fluoros. They look like the "Coleus Bada Bing" at that gallery from URL above.


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Offlinestemmer
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: astraalialma]
    #5754059 - 06/15/06 03:57 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I have tried coleus smoked and in a quid/in combination quite a few time because I like it.

Oh it does something, but there is no way more than 20% of people are going to be able to trip on it to any extent. Some will certainly say they cant feel a damn thing(thats just how so many people are composed).
SOOOO many people say they cant "really" trip off of 1 gram of mushrooms or get somewhat high from one hit of weed(cant even feel it). Well for those people, there is no way you will get more than a subtle high from coleus b(if anything).

Its a great additive to a fat bowl of weed. For me it intensifies the visuals that MJ gives me.

I could see some people getting into it though. It calms the mind a bit, and for me gives subtle miniature visuals when taken in large amounts.

The more people try it the more they will ruin it for others though. Mainly because a favorite word used by high dosers at the shroomery is "placebo".

No placebo here, I know it has its subtle effects.


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OfflineRateLimitEnzyme
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: astraalialma]
    #5754079 - 06/15/06 04:03 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Let me know if they turn out to be hallucenogens...

http://www.entheology.org/edoto/anmviewer.asp?a=39&z=5


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Offlinestemmer
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: RateLimitEnzyme]
    #5754138 - 06/15/06 04:19 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

If you read my post they are not some typical hallucinogen.

They are more like a herbal calm that might make you feel kind of high, maybe even subtle visuals if you smoke some and make a HUGE quid.... If it doesnt work, then smoke pot with it next time and see if you feel any different(you should feel a bit different even if you are a psychedelic hard head).


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Offlinetoastandjam
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: stemmer]
    #5754217 - 06/15/06 04:48 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Is there a guide to identifying the correct genus and species? Either weblinked (I haven't found one yet, though I'll edit if I do) or from personal experience? These would be great to have as indoor or windowbox plants, how convenient.


--------------------
Q: We wanted to see if you had the ability to expand your mind and your horizons... and for one brief moment, you did.
PICARD: When I realized the paradox...
Q: Exactly. For that one fraction of a second, you were open to options you'd never considered. That's the exploration that awaits you...not mapping stars and studying nebulae... but charting the unknowable possibilities of existence.

To carry yourself forward and experience myriad things is delusion. That myriad things come forth and experience themselves is awakening. -Dogen Zenji


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OfflineDarkflame
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: toastandjam]
    #5754307 - 06/15/06 05:11 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

It is supposedly quite common to US households. I'm going to try to get one tomorrow and I'll post back when/if I get it.

Stemmer:
Whilst it is quite right of you to say that some people will be hard heads and call it placebo, I feel that its equally possible that you are a hard head and other people will find it stronger rather than the other way around unless you know other people who have tried it.

It is equally possible that like Salvia many people will need more concentrated extracts than just the plain leaf. We'll have to find out.

Peace,
Darkflame

P.S. Bought my CND membership yesterday. yay!


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Offlinestemmer
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: Darkflame]
    #5754320 - 06/15/06 05:14 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I am the last person you would call a hard head.

I say this without bias. I used to take 1500 mics of lsd or 5-7 grams of shrooms(VERY high doses for me). That and ayahuasca made me the most sensative person you will likely ever know.

I can trip VERY hard from .5 grams of mushrooms. So your wrong basically, no offence..... Thats why I mentioned how most people would likely not get anything out of it and complain about it later.

I actually gave a very accurate bit of info about how active this seemingly random plant really is, and I probably know more about it than anybody at this site. Hense the whole "most people wont get anything out of it" type of thing I was saying before..

You would have to be mentally ill to be more sensative than myself.
I say this for informational purposes. I have no reason to dilute the subject as you have suggested..


Edited by stemmer (06/15/06 05:21 PM)


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OfflineIamthewalrus
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: stemmer]
    #5754361 - 06/15/06 05:23 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I'm a lightweight with weed but a hard head with most everything else(my tolerance seems pretty much normal to acid tho)


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Offlinestemmer
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: Iamthewalrus]
    #5754450 - 06/15/06 05:41 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Its kind of fucked up to say this and some of you wont believe me, but I can easily feel one 3 second finger-touch of a potent hit of acid. I can feel any mushrooms through my fingers, more so if I have clammy hands. I can also feel 1/10th and even FAR less of a salvia leaf on my tongue.

I tried coleus many times when I was not so sensative to hallucinogens and I can say for sure, Most people who wonder about it have no idea how subtle it really is. SSOOOOOO many people will not even feel it. If you are looking for a hallucinogen, dont look to C blumai. Its hardly a trip or a high(though it does something for sure).
Thats why I suggested it be used with MJ no matter how you prepare it.


Edited by stemmer (06/15/06 05:52 PM)


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OfflineCptnGarden
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: stemmer]
    #5754989 - 06/15/06 07:49 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

i just posted recently 2 links to coleus reports. search coleus under my username in the past year and you should find em. smoking didnt do anything, but tea definately did something.


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OfflineLysergic_Milkman
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: CptnGarden]
    #5756015 - 06/16/06 01:30 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I tried some today, tea method. I boiled ~80 large leaves in a pot for ~10 minutes, and let simmer & cool for ~30 minutes. The thing that strikes me about this plant is that the coloring in the middle and on the bottom (of some varieties) is transient. In other words, you can boil the color out of the leaves, leaving behind some dark Burgundy liquid (color depends on species, i suppose) and a pot full of plain green leaves. Could the active chemicals be held in this 'dye'?
As stemmer said, the effects are subtle at best, comparable to smoked Datura [muscle relaxation, clear head, moments of thoughtlessness/emptiness (all the things you want for meditation)], only more intense and longer lasting (the relaxation, especially).
The Kong Rose variety (purple inside, green on the margin, and green underneath) is active, and I can account for that claim from personal experience.


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OfflineDarkflame
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: Lysergic_Milkman]
    #5756201 - 06/16/06 03:00 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Has anyone tried an extraction? Either an alkaloid-type extraction or the salvinorin A type extraction. The results could be interesting and confirm Lysergic_Milkmans theory about the psychoactives being held in the dye.


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Offlinestemmer
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: Darkflame]
    #5756221 - 06/16/06 03:23 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I never have wanted to. It might benefit when using the leaf.


Im not sure....Im pretty sure that it is an interesting plant without any extractions. It does not make me want to extract it and take larger amounts though. Thats just me.


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OfflineDarkflame
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: stemmer]
    #5756727 - 06/16/06 09:54 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I've got my plant, its very pretty. Whether it turns out to be psychedelic or merely interesting remains to be seen however, I'm extremely glad I got one. I might build myself a window box and grow a few more because they look fantastic. The one I got is one of the "Kong" varieties, its HUGE. I doubt its gonna take 8 of those massive leaves to give me an effect. I'll probably start with one or two but it'll have to wait. The plant needs to get established before I steal its leaves for my own purposes.

It occurs to me that hemp wasn't particularly potent when discovered and thats why hash and oils were made from it whilst more potent versions were being being bred. It is possible that in time we could grow a stronger version of the plant but for now we may have to speed things up a bit with extractions. I understand your point stemmer but you have made it clear that you are quite sensitive to such material so an extract or similar might help us who are not so lucky.


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OfflineDarkflame
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: Darkflame]
    #5943410 - 08/08/06 08:20 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Hi Guys.
Its been a while since I last spoke on this topic but I now have some results.

Experiment 1:
This was done at home in my bedroom in semi-darkness. I put on Pink Floyd and smoked two bowls of dried coleus brumei leaf. I found that it gives off a lot of smoke. After smoking I began to get really into the music. I lay down beneath my bed (this is not as hard as you would think, its a high rise bed) and observed the wooden beams that support the mattress. They appeared to be flowing outwards. After what seemed like about 5 mins the effects wore off and I stood up to discover that about 20mins had passed.

Experiment 2:

I dried about 6 leaves and left them in acetone for a few days. I then slowly evaporated the acetone onto another dried leaf. This left me with very crude 7x Coleus leaf.
Once all smell of acetone had gone completely I dimmed the lights, switched on the lava lamp and put Sgt Pepper on. Once again I smoked two bowls in my bong. I felt the 'pull' I always experience from salvia and also had a hot flush something I used to get when I started smoking salvia.
Not much else was happening so I moved to my chair deciding that acetone must be the wrong solvent and the effects were placebo. Soon however I began to get strangely pleasurable rushes around the area between my eyes and I began to see what appeared to be retina scars that could not have come from any where, the most memorable being a smiling cresent moon. Mild patterning began to appear on the walls and the dimensions looked distinctly fucked. I could have sworn that my chimney breast was curved inwards.
Its been about half an hour now and the rushes are much smaller. Once again it feels as though hardly any time has past and my spelling keeps on needing correcting. Dunno if I got it all. The dimensions are still slightly messed up and walking makes me feel high somewhat similar to a very cerebral weed high.

Anyhow I thought you guys might be interested in how my experiment is getting on so far. I'll keep you posted.


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Offlineobi
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: Darkflame]
    #5943433 - 08/08/06 08:37 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

please do...
I find this very interesting


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OfflineOrganic
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: Darkflame]
    #5943446 - 08/08/06 08:49 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Sorry if I missed it, but are you smoking it out of a piece with MJ or other psychoactive residue?


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OfflineDarkflame
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: Organic]
    #5943459 - 08/08/06 09:04 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Nope. I'm using a bong thats never been used for weed and has been cleaned since my last salvia experience. I've never smoked any other psychoactives in it. I'm just smoking the Coleus on its own crumbled down to a powder. Theres no filler type material such as tobacco or catnip or whathaveyou.


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OfflineMustNotBe
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: Darkflame]
    #5943493 - 08/08/06 09:31 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

very interesting


--------------------
Junkies United we stand , Devided we're sick as fuck.
-                  -                -
"Hallucinations are something heroin users are not at all accustomed to," said Const. Conor King, Victoria police drug expert. "They react like you or I would react if we took Aspirin and all of a sudden the TV got up and started walking across the room."
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Make drugs legal, or alcohol and tobacco illegal. Either way it's more fair.


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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: MustNotBe]
    #5943500 - 08/08/06 09:33 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Well, since I can trip of of green tea, Im definatly gona get me a plant today. Sounds nice...


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OfflineMustNotBe
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: BlindLemon]
    #5943539 - 08/08/06 09:50 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

and actually we grow them on the side of our house. haha I just cut a couple leaves off.


--------------------
Junkies United we stand , Devided we're sick as fuck.
-                  -                -
"Hallucinations are something heroin users are not at all accustomed to," said Const. Conor King, Victoria police drug expert. "They react like you or I would react if we took Aspirin and all of a sudden the TV got up and started walking across the room."
-                  -                -
Make drugs legal, or alcohol and tobacco illegal. Either way it's more fair.


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OfflineDarkflame
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: MustNotBe]
    #5943561 - 08/08/06 10:01 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Sweet. They take forever to sun dry though. If you have a better idea I'd love to hear it.


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OfflineMustNotBe
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: Darkflame]
    #5943621 - 08/08/06 10:29 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

toaster oven at 100 degrees, food dehydrator? O and what did you use as your dosage for 7x, and the leaves?


--------------------
Junkies United we stand , Devided we're sick as fuck.
-                  -                -
"Hallucinations are something heroin users are not at all accustomed to," said Const. Conor King, Victoria police drug expert. "They react like you or I would react if we took Aspirin and all of a sudden the TV got up and started walking across the room."
-                  -                -
Make drugs legal, or alcohol and tobacco illegal. Either way it's more fair.


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OfflineDarkflame
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: MustNotBe]
    #5943655 - 08/08/06 10:44 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I just packed the bowl in my bong. I don't have a suitable scale for that kinda thing at the moment. I'd guess maybe a 3rd of a gram though. Not a huge amount.


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OfflineMustNotBe
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: Darkflame]
    #5943972 - 08/08/06 12:19 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I pulled about 3 grams of flowers off the plants we have. I am going to smoke the leaves today. Along with some beers. Ill do 7 bowls.

Tomarrow I'll smoke all the flowers I have. Ill report my findings back here.


--------------------
Junkies United we stand , Devided we're sick as fuck.
-                  -                -
"Hallucinations are something heroin users are not at all accustomed to," said Const. Conor King, Victoria police drug expert. "They react like you or I would react if we took Aspirin and all of a sudden the TV got up and started walking across the room."
-                  -                -
Make drugs legal, or alcohol and tobacco illegal. Either way it's more fair.


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OfflineDarkflame
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: MustNotBe]
    #5944275 - 08/08/06 02:02 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I havent tried the flowers. I heard that you are supposed to remove them to turn the plant from an annual to a perennial. good luck.


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Offlinefreezepooter
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: Darkflame]
    #5944452 - 08/08/06 03:10 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Ok, This is really cool guys.

I think i may have two varieties of coleus Blumei here at home.
what do you think?

here's the first one
big leaves

second, more leafy but smaller


I don't want to smoke the plant, so would boiling them in tea be ok?
Or are they like salvia where only the glands in your mouth absorb the active components?

seaching the internet people say the high is that of a tame mushroom trip, unlike salvia.


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InvisibleTTT
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: Darkflame]
    #5944816 - 08/08/06 05:08 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

http://www.theherbaladvisor.com/pharmacopoeia.html

What it says about Coleus

"Coleus (Coleus forskohlii) Coleus is an aromatic digestive which increases saliva and gastric acid output. It is excellent for congestive heart disease, asthma, psoriasis and hypertension. It is a great topical treatment for glaucoma and has the incredible effect of increasing ATP production in mitochondria by catalyzing the production of cAMP. This is the reason for its success with psoriasis patients and people with low Kreb's cycle activity. It has a similar effect on the thyroid gland to TSH. It potentiates the intracellular effects of many hormones and has a significant effect on lowering blood pressure. "


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OfflineMustNotBe
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: TTT]
    #5945328 - 08/08/06 07:21 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Smoked .9 grams of the dried leaf. No effects except the blending of colors on what I was looking at while I took a hit. Placebo effect I guess. Flowers tomorrow.


--------------------
Junkies United we stand , Devided we're sick as fuck.
-                  -                -
"Hallucinations are something heroin users are not at all accustomed to," said Const. Conor King, Victoria police drug expert. "They react like you or I would react if we took Aspirin and all of a sudden the TV got up and started walking across the room."
-                  -                -
Make drugs legal, or alcohol and tobacco illegal. Either way it's more fair.


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Offlinefreezepooter
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: MustNotBe]
    #5945411 - 08/08/06 07:40 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

i've been reading that drying the leaf renders it inactive. Shroomie of Doomie smoked several coleus cigs and nothing happend.

there are coleus all over my street. how can i decifer if its the active Blumei?

here are a few more varieties, any help if these are blume?



--------------------
"The mountains are calling and I must go." - John Muir


Edited by freezepooter (08/08/06 08:02 PM)


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OfflineCptnGarden
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: freezepooter]
    #5945584 - 08/08/06 08:31 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

the 2nd and 4th are the correct species.


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Offlinepassitbobbie
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: CptnGarden]
    #5945762 - 08/08/06 09:16 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

so whats the best species and variety to start with?


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Offlineyageman
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: passitbobbie]
    #5945806 - 08/08/06 09:30 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I always liked stemmer---> He's a smart and experienced guy with a tinge of asshole, which I think is warrented most of the time.......

stemmer said: "I have tried coleus smoked and in a quid/in combination quite a few time because I like it.

Oh it does something, but there is no way more than 20% of people are going to be able to trip on it to any extent. Some will certainly say they cant feel a damn thing(thats just how so many people are composed).
SOOOO many people say they cant "really" trip off of 1 gram of mushrooms or get somewhat high from one hit of weed(cant even feel it). Well for those people, there is no way you will get more than a subtle high from coleus b(if anything).

Its a great additive to a fat bowl of weed. For me it intensifies the visuals that MJ gives me.

I could see some people getting into it though. It calms the mind a bit, and for me gives subtle miniature visuals when taken in large amounts.

The more people try it the more they will ruin it for others though. Mainly because a favorite word used by high dosers at the shroomery is "placebo".

No placebo here, I know it has its subtle effects".
-------------------------------------------------------

I feel the exact same way about it. Any coleus B could work. Color shouldnt matter too much and if it did, good luck finding the most effective color scheme.
Get some nice red-green coleus and just see how it works for you.
It works for me. I hardly feel its a psychedelic. At the right dose, opium is more psychedelic for me.

It really is just very subtle. It does something. Seriously, if you want to use it, add some weed to the mix.

If you are not sensative enough to feel it, then so be it.....


--------------------
[quote]Me_Roy said:
You moron. Material is material is material.  No 'thing' fixes any situation.  If anything were so simple we would be living in a much better world.[/quote] <-----the dumbest thing I have ever read in my life.
Thanks shroomery.


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Offlinefreezepooter
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: yageman]
    #5946130 - 08/08/06 11:21 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

so are most coleus of the Blumei species??


--------------------
"The mountains are calling and I must go." - John Muir


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Offlinepassitbobbie
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: freezepooter]
    #5946360 - 08/09/06 01:17 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

god loves us


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OfflineDarkflame
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: yageman]
    #5946474 - 08/09/06 02:33 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I think that the comment that only about 20% of people get an effect could probably have been said for salvia if people hadn't started using extracts. In fact with salvia its probably far less than 20% who can get effects from dried leaf. I certainly couldn't. Therefore I think that Coleus still has a lot of promise.

Apparently Coleus B only works as a tea with about 60+ leaves. So I guess the active ingredient is only slightly soluble in water. However, people have had good experiences using it in a quid with a mere 8 leaves.

About the inactivity upon drying:
'They believe the leaves to be inactive when dried, but this is not true—the dried leaves preserve their activity indefinitely and salvinorin A is highly stable. Valdés suggested the dried leaves were unsuitable for preparing the aqueous infusion, but Pendell has shown they can be successfully rehydrated for oral ingestion, one way the Mazatecs have been documented using the fresh leaves. Valdés saw in the strange method of preparing an infusion of the fresh leaves: “a pharmaceutically elegant way of preparing a microsuspension or emulsion of salvinorin A,” while Wasson dismissed this as “certainly an inefficient method.” Siebert’s studies showed it to be indeed an inefficient method—a marginal, low dose which provoked no effects in an imitation of the Mazatec technique (and the same dose which was all but inactive for Albert Hofmann, even when prepared under the supervision of María Sabina) was “consistently effective” at evoking “definite psychoactive effects” utilizing the simple quid method, readily discovered by American ‘basement shamans,’ but not divined by the Mazatecs.' - sagewisdom.org

This is actually talking about salvia d. However it can be assumed that if the active ingredients are similar then the same can apply. It is also important to note that the Mazatecs believe salvia d. to be inactive dried and the only sources I could find that described coleus brumei leaves as inactive when dried cited interviews and the like with the Mazatecs as evidence, if they gave any at all, to back up this claim.

Anyhoo I'm off to pick more coleus leaves for my next experiment.


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OfflineCptnGarden
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: Darkflame]
    #5946490 - 08/09/06 02:56 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

60+ leafs? I had to use 150 fresh... with the other plant matter and all


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OfflineDarkflame
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: CptnGarden]
    #5946731 - 08/09/06 07:27 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Meh, I haven't the heart to tear all the leaves from my plant to investigate how many leaves are needed for a tea. I just used some information from sagewisdom. Though I'm considering trying a quid. But I'm only taking ill looking leaves off my plant at the moment, I'm not gonna take what the plant isn't willing to give me. Might give the flower buds a try too.


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OfflineDarkflame
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: Darkflame]
    #5946822 - 08/09/06 09:05 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Ok guys. Had a go at doing a quid just now. Was pretty unsuccessful. I don't want to put anybody off this method but I've drank wormwood tea and cactus tea and neither of them tasted so gut wrenchingly nasty. I nearly vomited 3 times just from the taste then decided I couldn't stomach it and spat it back out. I think that is one experiment someone else will have to try.

Why is it the nature of psychedelics to taste foul?

Next time I'll cram it up my ass  :goatse: :tongue:

(I'm kidding guys. Hey stop imagining it. That is not funny!)


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OfflineS1lverdj
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: Darkflame]
    #5946840 - 08/09/06 09:21 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Ya know...C. blumei suppositories is where the future is...


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OfflineHerbus
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: Darkflame]
    #5946873 - 08/09/06 09:43 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Darkflame said: It is quite possible that the compounds are in the same family yet have different effects similar to comparing DMT and 4-HO-DMT in the tryptamine family.
The effects are described as being similar to a mild psilocybe trip lasting about two hours.




I got this far, and decided it necessary to respond somehow.

I've never used this particular plant, however I have used S. divinorum and plenty of tryptamines. The effects of salvinorin(s) and tryptamine(s) are WAY, repeat, WAY different in my opinion. Only thing which is similiar, to me, would be the fact that they're both drugs which can cause serious distortions in one's interpretation(s) of reality. That said, typically the distortion(s) caused (by Salvia) are quite different in nature than those brought on by tryptamines.

To me, the most marked difference would be psychological, and considering these are 'psychoactive drugs' a good deal of categorization efforts should deal with the mental effects produced.

I'm sure most who've taken Salvia and say, mushrooms, would agree that the psychological state produced by both substances is quite different from the other.

Oh, and if you're considering a attack-orientated response, please re-read my post and notice I consistently say things like, "In my opinion," "to me" or "for me..." which should indicate this post is an OPINION, so keep that in mind before you start telling me how wrong I am... that's your interpretation of how my thoughts do not coincide with yours.


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...


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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: Herbus]
    #5946932 - 08/09/06 10:09 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I was not trying to say that salvinorins and tryptamines are in any way related or in fact have similar effects. The only similarity appears to be the description - psychedelic. The point I was trying to get across is the way that DMT is a potent short acting (when smoked at least) chemical and 4-HO-DMT while chemically similar has very different effects.
I was hypothesising that in the family of salvinorins, salvinorin a is similar to DMT in that is it both short acting and highly potent whilst the active ingredient in Coleus B is longer acting and milder, again similar to psilocin in the tryptamine family. I was drawing comparison between duration and potency not psychedelic effects.
I felt that using chemicals we can all relate to as examples would help get my point across.

Whilst I would not dream of saying that your opinions are wrong (you do of course have a right to your own opinion) I suspect that you may have misinterpreted me and thus missed my point. I am sorry if I didnt make my point sufficiently clear and hope this clarifies my point with others who have also been confused by this comparison.

On another note I'm drying some leaves and getting some kit together to try to extract the active ingredient. Wish me luck.


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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: Darkflame]
    #5946999 - 08/09/06 10:36 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

It has been suggested that forskolin (a labdane diterpene) are responsible for any possible effect from coleus blumei and nothing related to Salvinorin A (a trans-neoclerodane diterpenoid). But forskolin should not, in theory at least, be psycoactive. BUT it may be that some terpenes have a potentiating effect so it COULD BE that coleus has been used traditionally by the mazatecs because of potentiating effects when ingested together with salvia divenorium. just a theory tho, nothing about it has been proven.


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note: english is my 3rd languange, please ignore misspelling and poor english, im doing my best :smile:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ug98TKkWKy0


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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: shamantra]
    #5947031 - 08/09/06 10:49 AM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Ingesting with salvia d could certainly be an interesting experiment then. Have you got a source I could read about the coleus b containing forskolin. I thought it was only in forskohlii. interesting theory though. Would be good to have a salvia potentiator.


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OfflineShroomDoom
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: Darkflame]
    #5947559 - 08/09/06 02:20 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

someone should injest them all at the same time, the mother, the child, the godson, hell the whole family. that would be an interesting experiment :laugh:


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OfflineAshland
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: ShroomDoom]
    #5947946 - 08/09/06 04:52 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Ironically enough I bought this plant for my mom for mother's day. . I thought it just looked cool. . haha

I'm going to pick some leaves (probably 4 or 5, it's not a very big plant and the leaves are huge!) and dry them with the intention of smoking them. I will post back when I have something.


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Offlineyageman
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: Ashland]
    #5947980 - 08/09/06 05:02 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

In my experience smoking them doesnt do much more than deprive your brain of oxygen. I think it might do something very subtle though.

The only way I can feel obvious effects is from massive quids.
Even tea seemed to work(but that could be because I had a quid in my mouth aswell)


--------------------
[quote]Me_Roy said:
You moron. Material is material is material.  No 'thing' fixes any situation.  If anything were so simple we would be living in a much better world.[/quote] <-----the dumbest thing I have ever read in my life.
Thanks shroomery.


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Offlinefreezepooter
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: yageman]
    #5947997 - 08/09/06 05:07 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

i drank tea of 70 leaves an hour ago, and feel nothing but calm.


--------------------
"The mountains are calling and I must go." - John Muir


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OfflineAshland
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: yageman]
    #5948006 - 08/09/06 05:08 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

well in my research the Mazatec(sp?) indians claimed that the leaves must be fresh (within hours) in order to obtain effects... however, no legitimate reason to believe this has been put forward by the scientific community. The same group of shamans (who also use(d) salvia in their rituals in tandem with coleus) claimed that salvia would be ineffectual when dried... and, well, we all know that's not true at all.

I'm going to give it a shot, and I'll let you guys know if I feel any effects from the plant's smoke. Going to dry it in front of a CPU fan (much the same way I dry mushrooms) until smokeable.


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OfflineMustNotBe
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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: Ashland]
    #5948371 - 08/09/06 07:01 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

No effect from smoking the flowers either.


--------------------
Junkies United we stand , Devided we're sick as fuck.
-                  -                -
"Hallucinations are something heroin users are not at all accustomed to," said Const. Conor King, Victoria police drug expert. "They react like you or I would react if we took Aspirin and all of a sudden the TV got up and started walking across the room."
-                  -                -
Make drugs legal, or alcohol and tobacco illegal. Either way it's more fair.


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Re: A New Psychedelic? [Re: Darkflame]
    #5969468 - 08/16/06 01:38 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

bumpy


--------------------
"The mountains are calling and I must go." - John Muir


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