Home | Community | Message Board

Cannabis Seeds - Original Sensible Seeds
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Left Coast Kratom Kratom Powder For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1
OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
Exposer of Truth
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/13/03
Posts: 13,673
Loc: Smokey Mtns. TN Flag
Last seen: 7 years, 12 days
Why the USA will never have a successful turnover in Iraq.
    #5748050 - 06/14/06 12:30 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

My theory on why USA will eventually lose control of Iraq and have to pull out.

When the coalition forces invaded Iraq they scrapped Powells tactic of Overwhelming force and instead a small amount of SOG units and marines were designated to originally capture Oil Refineries, Palaces, Infrastructure such as electrical grids,television stations and military infrastructure were destroyed or captured. This is called EBO (effects based operations) these tactics were used on the Iraqi's in 92. Saddam effectively learned his lesson and decided instead to provide financing to blossoming terrorist organizations (around 99 and 2000) because of Clintons unending Airplane sorties over the no-fly zones of Iraq Saddam had been anticipating a Coalition invasion for years.

He had built a massive maze of Rabbit holes and maze complexes. His plan was originally to provide Financing by funneling money into B'aath officials in Syria to provide financing to the myriad of terrorist organizations, while he subsequently waited out the occupation and the invader was driven out.

The Coalitions first biggest mistake was because of being undermanned they couldnt capture all of Saddams depots and armories and massive amounts of weapons and ammunition were looted.This haunts the coalition even today as old artillery shells are rigged as IEDs to destroy coalition vehicles and infrastructure and to terrorize the local populace so they lose faith in their "democratically" elected government.

the second Huge mistake was dissolving the Iraqi army, The almost million man force which consisted of Republican Guard, Al Fedayeen, Mukharabarrat were all disbanded, out of these disbanded army one could only estimate that 20% of these people consist of the insurgency at best! worst case scenario could be a 40 or 50% consistency.Also throw in your foreigners and your Open Source insurgents and guerrilla bazaar.

Iraqs failure to properly police its citizens has led to the rise of large groups of local militias and groups (such as SCIRI's Badr Brigade, Sadr's Mahdi army,and IAI (Islamic Army in Iraq) These militia's prove evident that the Iraqi government can simply not protect its own citizenry without relying on homegrown Militia's this itself is the root of a major problem.

The United States has to keep providing a blank check for the Iraqi Government to write, The insurmountable costs of upkeeping Iraqi Infrastructure will eventually lead to US pulling out of Iraq.
When terrorists are able to roam freely across Iraq, Destroying Power stations, Destroying oil refineries, and Knocking out electrical grids all at the expense of the american taxpayer.

The Militia's will start exacting Tit for Tat violence and retribution towards rival ethnicities or tribes causing a vaccuum similar to the war seen in the Balkans (88 to 99) This causes a uneven dominance of the Iranian backed Shiias, towards the Syrian backed Sunni's. This itself could ignite a war and is a massive source of instability across the region.

The largely unguarded and unprotected border of Iraq have become Lucrative for Drug and human smuggling which usually ends up financing the insurgency fighting the Coalition occupiers. If the US cant patrol a 2000 mile mexican border what makes you think the same will happen in Iraq.

The United States is at a complete disadvantage as well as the Iraqi Government which i doubt will sustain for more then 2 years after the US pulls out, The Iraqi government is dependent on the Teet of the American Taxpayer, it will eventually lead to the further collapse of the United States. Im against the war in Iraq, because its simple. ITS ABSOLUTE THEFT.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: Why the USA will never have a successful turnover in Iraq. [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #5748283 - 06/14/06 01:44 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Are terrorist groups behind the insurgency tho? Or is it more ordinary Iraqis dealing with sectarian violence and anger at the american occupation?

Most of the groups you could call "terrorist" seem to be fundamentalist Islam which Saddam was never too keen on so I wouldn't think he'd fund them.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRosettaStoned
Stranger

Registered: 05/29/06
Posts: 540
Loc: North America
Last seen: 16 years, 2 months
Re: Why the USA will never have a successful turnover in Iraq. [Re: Alex213]
    #5748456 - 06/14/06 03:06 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I would hope at this point it's obvious to everyone that ordinary iraqis are involved on a large scale in the "insurgency". Because if the iraqis didn't want any part of fighting the occupation then it would be a simple matter to rat out all of the foreigners. Since there are way more iraqis in iraq than foreign fighters. But that picture isn't exactly good for poll numbers now is it?

Will the US eventually pull out of iraq bloodied with the job unfinished? Only time will tell. Will history look upon this war and portray bush and his buddies as liberators and heros? Not a chance. Win or loose we are coming out the aggressor in this one, no matter how much fox news shows a pretty picture of a waving flag.


--------------------
"Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,782
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 1 day, 4 hours
Re: Why the USA will never have a successful turnover in Iraq. [Re: RosettaStoned]
    #5748674 - 06/14/06 05:23 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I am not trying to be a bitch, but bro, you are nothing more then an arm chair general.

Do you know how easy it is to "Monday morning" quarterback a war, AFTER engagements happen?????????


You know anything about Iwo Jima?

Dont get me wrong, you do bring up some good points about some flawed strategy. However unless you or I have a crystal ball, NO ONE knows either way, which way the war will go.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 6 months, 28 days
Re: Why the USA will never have a successful turnover in Iraq. [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5749035 - 06/14/06 09:36 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

All of us here are armchair generals, regardless of whether we are for or against the war.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
Exposer of Truth
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/13/03
Posts: 13,673
Loc: Smokey Mtns. TN Flag
Last seen: 7 years, 12 days
Re: Why the USA will never have a successful turnover in Iraq. [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5749525 - 06/14/06 12:28 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Yea i do know about Iwo Jima, how does that have anything to do with what i posted. Im not trying to turn this into a Knowledge contest however if you have something enlightening to refute my argument with then by all means continue.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
Exposer of Truth
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/13/03
Posts: 13,673
Loc: Smokey Mtns. TN Flag
Last seen: 7 years, 12 days
Re: Why the USA will never have a successful turnover in Iraq. [Re: RosettaStoned]
    #5749557 - 06/14/06 12:43 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Will the US eventually pull out of iraq bloodied with the job unfinished? Only time will tell. Will history look upon this war and portray bush and his buddies as liberators and heros? Not a chance. Win or loose we are coming out the aggressor in this one, no matter how much fox news shows a pretty picture of a waving flag.




The US will pull out of Iraq when the USA figures out its entirely not in their interest to start writing blank checks for the Iraqi Government.Unfortunately because Iraq has cost trillions of projected spending I dont think any of us on here will be retiring anytime soon.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,782
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 1 day, 4 hours
Re: Why the USA will never have a successful turnover in Iraq. [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #5750223 - 06/14/06 04:39 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

The_Red_Crayon said:
Yea i do know about Iwo Jima, how does that have anything to do with what i posted. Im not trying to turn this into a Knowledge contest however if you have something enlightening to refute my argument with then by all means continue.





What would be your reaction today, if around 6,000 casualties happened in less then a one week period, in Iraq? (Iwo Jima)

This war is over a four year period, and has casualties at just over 2,000. In my opinion why throw in the towel?

America has been in much more dire circumstances then the present conflict.


Your assertion that the enemy has serious firepower from looting is false. The vast majority of attacks are by IEDs. I can go to Home Depot and make a an explosive devise (I went through many advanced demolition courses), it doesn't mean I have an arsenal. Other then sporadic AK-47 fire, inaccurate mortar fire, and hasty ambushes, the enemy is pretty desperate.


The enemy is being beat into submission, which is why they choose guerrilla warfare tactics and wont form a conventional line of engagement. Redstorm's assertion that we are all armchair generals is correct......I will stop being a hypocrite.......


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinexDuckYouSuckerx
xBannedx
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/25/06
Posts: 1,410
Last seen: 17 years, 9 months
Re: Why the USA will never have a successful turnover in Iraq. [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5750315 - 06/14/06 05:22 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
What would be your reaction today, if around 6,000 casualties happened in less then a one week period, in Iraq? (Iwo Jima)

This war is over a four year period, and has casualties at just over 2,000. In my opinion why throw in the towel?

America has been in much more dire circumstances then the present conflict.




Exactly! If the America-hating liberals that exist today had been in media positions during WWII, we'd still be talking about the "quagmire" of attacking the beaches. People die in war. Two thousand Americans dying to take over an entire country isn't a "bad" tradeoff. Our warfighting gets better and better, every day.
Quote:


Your assertion that the enemy has serious firepower from looting is false. The vast majority of attacks are by IEDs. I can go to Home Depot and make a an explosive devise (I went through many advanced demolition courses), it doesn't mean I have an arsenal. Other then sporadic AK-47 fire, inaccurate mortar fire, and hasty ambushes, the enemy is pretty desperate.



Exactly times two! Their really isn't, from what I've heard from guys coming back, an organized resistance, it's just small groups using IED's and sniper attacks. We are learning every day how to deal with them. M249's are being used more and more to 'inspect' suspicious roadside packages. I wish that the people saying how this war is "unwinnable" would just STFU and let the military do it's job.


--------------------
Unions are the bastions of the mediocre. - luvdemshrooms

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: Why the USA will never have a successful turnover in Iraq. [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5752085 - 06/15/06 12:50 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

This war is over a four year period, and has casualties at just over 2,000. In my opinion why throw in the towel?

America has been in much more dire circumstances then the present conflict.


Isn't the situation in Iraq now more like the Brits in Ireland trying to deal with sectarian conflicts rather than WW2? The Brits got nowhere fighting guerillas for 30 years.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
Exposer of Truth
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/13/03
Posts: 13,673
Loc: Smokey Mtns. TN Flag
Last seen: 7 years, 12 days
Re: Why the USA will never have a successful turnover in Iraq. [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5752156 - 06/15/06 01:40 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

What would be your reaction today, if around 6,000 casualties happened in less then a one week period, in Iraq? (Iwo Jima)




This is catch-22. You fail to proportionalize these wars, these wars were fought by nations who committed vast resources to war, Therefore armys consisted of millions of soldiers for the battlefield, inherently with such large forces there is more casualties.

You simply cant compare Iraq to Iwo Jima, Their entirely different circumstances,Different technologies,different tactics to many to list. Its absurd you could try to compare Iwo Jima to Iraq.

Your asking me such a ridiculous question.

Quote:

Your assertion that the enemy has serious firepower from looting is false. The vast majority of attacks are by IEDs. I can go to Home Depot and make a an explosive devise (I went through many advanced demolition courses), it doesn't mean I have an arsenal. Other then sporadic AK-47 fire, inaccurate mortar fire, and hasty ambushes, the enemy is pretty desperate.




What do you think Ieds, they consist of mostly a vast variety of things, mostly old leftover 1990s saddam ordinance, artillery shells of various sizes, massive amounts of mortars, They will stick cans of propane and wrig it to a artillery shell set off with one of these
Its all different materials, what ever the insurgents can get their hands on.

Quote:

I can go to Home Depot and make a an explosive devise (I went through many advanced demolition courses), it doesn't mean I have an arsenal



TATP? Antho?. TATP is highly unstable. Im sure insurgents have used a few home depot weapons in Iraq. But not on a large scale.


Quote:

The enemy is being beat into submission, which is why they choose guerrilla warfare tactics and wont form a conventional line of engagement. Redstorm's assertion that we are all armchair generals is correct......I will stop being a hypocrite.......




You keep forgetting Iraq is a war fought by a very small coalition about 280,000 i cant remember offhand, to patrol a very large country. Iraq has always been a very brutal country, I am simply just stating that, I more then likely think the Insurgency will outlast the Coalition, And mainly for a lot of reasons, Economically the US could simply no longer afford it, The strife between the rival sects, and tribes of Iraq will rage out of control with large amounts of militias at each others throats, most of them to be recruited as soldiers towards the sunni's

Take a look at the Balkan war, You have very similar circumstances, all though incredibly decentralized. These rival ethnicities are all vying for autonomous regions, This is a powder keg waiting to explode, Throw Iran into this mix and in can get to be a very hairy situation. Most Shiites we put into power owe their allegiance to the Iranians, Sistani himself Lives in Iran and hes the religious leader of SCIRI. One of the major political parties of Iraq.

If you cant see that this cant turn into a ugly situation you need to turn your shit headlights on and see the massive shitstorm on the road.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,782
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 1 day, 4 hours
Re: Why the USA will never have a successful turnover in Iraq. [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #5752427 - 06/15/06 05:43 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

The Red Crayon stated:

This is catch-22. You fail to proportionalize these wars, these wars were fought by nations who committed vast resources to war, Therefore armys consisted of millions of soldiers for the battlefield, inherently with such large forces there is more casualties

http://www.angelfire.com/wa/redwoodsigns/iwojima.html

Size of Iwo Jima : 8 square miles
Troop concentration: 70,000 Marines, 22,000 Japs

-compared to-

Size of Iraq: 167,556 sq mi
Troop concentration: over 100,000 Americans, ???? Insurgents


Now that they have a proportion, lets look at this. You are correct, World War 2 is a much bigger conflict, however one does not have to derive facts from EXACT situations in order to come up with a logical opinion.

The differences:

1. Iwo Jima is extremely small compared to Iraq
2. Troop Concentrations were in a confined area for this engagement
3. The enemy was well armed, and in dug in positions.
4. The enemy had a superior elevated tactical position.
5. A conventional line of warfare was formed
6. Thousands upon thousands of deaths per day.


With the above differences in mind, the Marines with the backing of America, took that mountain of ash, by SHEER WILL. THEY DID NOT QUIT. Keep in mind that the purpose of Iwo Jima, was for ONLY TWO landing strips. The current engagement is for the democracy of an entire nation, and has considerable less casualties over a four year period. The point being:

America has scarified and suffered more in the past, then what we are currently experiencing today.

Because I still have faith in America, I do believe that this war will be successful, like I stated before, America has been in much dire circumstances, like the situation above, compared to this current war.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 6 months, 28 days
Re: Why the USA will never have a successful turnover in Iraq. [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5752893 - 06/15/06 09:36 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

The million dollar question (in my mind, at least) is whether or not the United States has the right to be propping up democracies around the world.

While democracies are preferable to the alternative, I think a sovereign nation should be able to determine its own system of government. If a population is unhappy with its government, it is their job to change it. If we were to try to change every country to a democracy, we have quite the mountain to climb.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,782
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 1 day, 4 hours
Re: Why the USA will never have a successful turnover in Iraq. [Re: Redstorm]
    #5756474 - 06/16/06 07:54 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
The million dollar question (in my mind, at least) is whether or not the United States has the right to be propping up democracies around the world.

While democracies are preferable to the alternative, I think a sovereign nation should be able to determine its own system of government. If a population is unhappy with its government, it is their job to change it. If we were to try to change every country to a democracy, we have quite the mountain to climb.





Good point, however we have been successful in the past. Take for instance Japan. Even though it is not a model democracy, one must agree that Japan in its current state, is light years ahead of what it used to be , before the bombing.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: Why the USA will never have a successful turnover in Iraq. [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5759572 - 06/17/06 01:31 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

There's lots of big differences between Japan and Iraq tho. And a big difference in the US approach in 1945 compared to Bush.

I have no doubt that huge numbers of Iraqis would welcome the end of repression and establishment of a democratic society, but any number of considerations make the situation there very different than it was in Japan. Apart from lacking the moral legitimacy and internal and global support that buttressed its occupation of Japan, the United States is not in the business of nation-building any more - just look at Afghanistan. And we certainly are not in the business of promoting radical democratic reform. Even liberal ideals are anathema in the conservative circles that shape U.S. policy today. And beyond this, many of the conditions that contributed to the success of the occupation of Japan are simply absent in Iraq.

The reforms that were introduced in the opening year and a half or so of the occupation were quite stunning. They amounted to a sweeping commitment to what we now call 'nation-building' - the sort of hands-on commitment that George W. Bush explicitly repudiated in his presidential campaign. The Americans introduced in Japan a major land reform, for example, that essentially took land from rich landlords, eliminated widespread tenancy, and created a class of small rural landowners. The argument for this was that rural oppression had kept the countryside poor, thwarted democracy, constricted the domestic market, and fuelled the drive to control overseas markets. We introduced labour laws that guaranteed the right to organize, bargain collectively, and strike, on the grounds that a viable labour movement is essential to any viable democracy. We encouraged the passage of a strong labour standards law to prevent exploitation of workers including women and children. We revamped both the content and structure of the educational system. In all this the input of Japanese bureaucrats and technocrats was essential to implement such reforms, and serious grass-roots support was basic to their survival.

One of our major initiatives was to create an entirely new constitution. There were no citizens in Japan in 1945. There was no popular sovereignty. Under the existing constitution, sovereignty was vested in the emperor and all Japanese were his 'subjects.' So, the Americans drafted - but the Japanese translated, debated, tinkered with, and adopted - a new national charter that remains one of the most progressive constitutions in the world. The emperor became a 'symbol' of the state. An extensive range of human and civil rights was guaranteed - including an explicit guarantee of gender equality. Belligerency of the state was repudiated. Changing the constitution meant, moreover, that much of the civil code had to be rewritten to conform to these new strictures concerning equality and guaranteed rights. Although the occupation ended in 1952 and there are no restrictions on amending the constitution, not a word of it has been changed.

I have no doubt that huge numbers of Iraqis would welcome the end of repression and establishment of a democratic society, but any number of considerations make the situation there very different than it was in Japan. Apart from lacking the moral legitimacy and internal and global support that buttressed its occupation of Japan, the United States is not in the business of nation-building any more - just look at Afghanistan. And we certainly are not in the business of promoting radical democratic reform. Even liberal ideals are anathema in the conservative circles that shape U.S. policy today. And beyond this, many of the conditions that contributed to the success of the occupation of Japan are simply absent in Iraq.

John Stuart Mill has a wonderful line somewhere to the effect that a country can be laid waste by fire and sword, but in and of itself this really doesn't matter where recovery is concerned. What matters is not so much what is destroyed but rather what human resources survive. Even though Japan had been laid to ruin by the terror-bombing of its cities, what survived was an exceptionally literate populace whose long war effort had, in fact, contributed to great and widespread advances in technological and technocratic skills. At the same time this was an essentially homogeneous populace that had been mobilized behind a common national cause.

The failure and discredit of the cause did not destroy this general sense of collective national purpose. It meant, however, that these great human resources were available to be mobilized to new ends that were more peaceful and progressive. Put simply, one of the reasons the reformist agenda succeeded is that Japan was spared the type of fierce ethnic, religious, and political factionalism that exists in countries like Iraq today.


http://www.historyandpolicy.org/archive/policy-paper-10.html

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRosettaStoned
Stranger

Registered: 05/29/06
Posts: 540
Loc: North America
Last seen: 16 years, 2 months
Re: Why the USA will never have a successful turnover in Iraq. [Re: Alex213]
    #5759615 - 06/17/06 02:06 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I think some folks are always going to try to cling to the glory days. WW2 might as well have happened on mars. I don't see one single comparison to our current conflict other than people are dying. If one must compare it to anything, viet nam would be a far better choice. Not because of the deaths, but because of the manner and origin of the conflict. The whole idea of upholding democracy and all that wonderful stuff. As most surely remember the purpose of WW2 was to save our allies from total destruction right? Vastly different.

But I guess if it suits ones purpose they can compare it to swiss cheese if they choose too  :grin:


--------------------
"Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,782
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 1 day, 4 hours
Re: Why the USA will never have a successful turnover in Iraq. [Re: RosettaStoned]
    #5761648 - 06/17/06 07:46 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I have no doubt that huge numbers of Iraqis would welcome the end of repression and establishment of a democratic society, but any number of considerations make the situation there very different than it was in Japan. Apart from lacking the moral legitimacy and internal and global support that buttressed its occupation of Japan, the United States is not in the business of nation-building any more - just look at Afghanistan.


You can not build a nation in a three to four year period.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleAlteredAgain
Visual Alchemist
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 11,181
Loc: Solar Circuit
Re: Why the USA will never have a successful turnover in Iraq. [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #5763078 - 06/18/06 02:35 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

The match that lit the fire was not made to extinguish it.

Who's got the water? America certainly doesn't.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
Exposer of Truth
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/13/03
Posts: 13,673
Loc: Smokey Mtns. TN Flag
Last seen: 7 years, 12 days
Re: Why the USA will never have a successful turnover in Iraq. [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5763111 - 06/18/06 02:57 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
I have no doubt that huge numbers of Iraqis would welcome the end of repression and establishment of a democratic society, but any number of considerations make the situation there very different than it was in Japan. Apart from lacking the moral legitimacy and internal and global support that buttressed its occupation of Japan, the United States is not in the business of nation-building any more - just look at Afghanistan.


You can not build a nation in a three to four year period.




No but then again you never had to deal with a rising insurgency in Japan or Germany.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1

Shop: PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Left Coast Kratom Kratom Powder For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Germany seeks closer ties with Britain & USA Great_Satan 358 0 11/12/04 08:38 AM
by Great_Satan
* War on Iraq IQ test
( 1 2 3 all )
LearyfanS 4,058 41 03/15/03 05:19 PM
by rhizo
* hahaha iraq is such a mess
( 1 2 3 all )
KingOftheThing 4,597 40 01/08/05 01:27 PM
by Divided_Sky
* Are you anti-war and pro-democracy?
( 1 2 3 all )
Evolving 5,032 48 03/26/03 10:19 PM
by JonnyOnTheSpot
* Israel vs. Iraq Biased, but interesting
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 all )
Buddha5254 14,141 133 11/08/02 11:01 AM
by Innvertigo
* USA violates UN laws and other hypocrisy
( 1 2 all )
Swami 1,883 29 11/01/05 08:51 PM
by Prosgeopax
* Rumsfeld sees no link between Iraq/9-11
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )
LearyfanS 6,087 100 09/20/03 01:33 PM
by Phred
* Bush's Lobotomy Has Been A Tremendous Success Jellric 593 2 05/13/04 07:26 PM
by downforpot

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil, ballsalsa
2,729 topic views. 3 members, 1 guests and 6 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.034 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 14 queries.