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OfflinePhred
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Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Order in English
    #5746252 - 06/13/06 03:50 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I've been following this story since it first broke, and was halfway expecting to see someone else post about it by now. Since no one has, I'll provide this link,

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/14803774.htm

then ask this question of the PA&L readership:

Whose side are you on in this case, and why? The restaurant owner or the city government?





Phred


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OfflinexDuckYouSuckerx
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Registered: 05/25/06
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Re: Order in English [Re: Phred]
    #5746304 - 06/13/06 04:03 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

It's a private business, I don't see any need for Nanny State to step in. If people don't like it, don't go there. I, personally, would PayPal orders for cheese steaks to be FedEx'ed to me all day long just to support this guy if I could. In the original story the reporter saw some Pedro's come in and an employee helped them order in english.


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Unions are the bastions of the mediocre. - luvdemshrooms

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Order in English [Re: Phred]
    #5746334 - 06/13/06 04:13 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

It's a private enterprise. He has the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason, including the language they speak.


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OfflineSchwip
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Re: Order in English [Re: Silversoul]
    #5746353 - 06/13/06 04:21 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Its also worth noting that they are not pricks about it and have never ever flat out REFUSED a customer to date.

They gladly help people learn the english words to order.


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" If the sky were to suddenly open up there would be no law. There would be no rule. There would only be you and your memories... the choices you've made, and the people you've touched. If this world were to end there would only be you and him and no-one else. "

..............

"MAN! You know there aint no such thing as left over crack!"


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Order in English [Re: Phred]
    #5746372 - 06/13/06 04:34 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I definitely side with the business. As stated earlier, it is a private enterprise and the owner should be allowed to determine the method in which it operates.

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InvisibleGijith
Daisy Chain Eater

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
Re: Order in English [Re: Redstorm]
    #5746449 - 06/13/06 05:11 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Same here. Siding with the business. Until an English speaking Mexican is denied service, I don't see any problem. Even then, the owner has his rights.

One thing: The sign is in English, right? Does it serve any real business related purpose?


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what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?

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InvisibleMezcal
Registered: 08/11/05
Posts: 1,980
Re: Order in English [Re: Phred]
    #5746456 - 06/13/06 05:14 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Why do I have a feeling that those who have responded are all white non-immigrants?

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OfflineRosettaStoned
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Registered: 05/29/06
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Re: Order in English [Re: Redstorm]
    #5746458 - 06/13/06 05:15 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I think this guy sure got some huge free advertisement out of this lol


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"Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Order in English [Re: RosettaStoned]
    #5746543 - 06/13/06 05:37 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I heard on the radio that his business has gone through the roof. Anybody can certainly chose to boycott his store. Hell, the illegals (or anybody else) can picket outside, within reason, as long as they don't disrupt the flow of traffic


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OfflinexDuckYouSuckerx
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Re: Order in English [Re: Mezcal]
    #5746545 - 06/13/06 05:38 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

snyder said:
Why do I have a feeling that those who have responded are all white non-immigrants?




Why would it matter?


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Unions are the bastions of the mediocre. - luvdemshrooms

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InvisibleMezcal
Registered: 08/11/05
Posts: 1,980
Re: Order in English [Re: xDuckYouSuckerx]
    #5746565 - 06/13/06 05:43 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

xDuckYouSuckerx said:
Quote:

snyder said:
Why do I have a feeling that those who have responded are all white non-immigrants?




Why would it matter?




Because it's a lot easier to call discrimination free speech when one isn't often a victim of it.

Now, I'm not calling anybody a racist, but I think it's easy to see that this is an issue of sensitivity; in stead of choosing to develop a culture of brotherhood and equality, he chose to be "mean-spirited and divisive" to borrow Kenney's words.

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Order in English [Re: Mezcal]
    #5746650 - 06/13/06 06:08 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

One could also argue that those who refuse to even attempt to learn English when it is by far the dominant language are practicing divisiveness. And how fucking hard is it to order a sandwich? Jambon croissant, anyone? And I never took one single French lesson.


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Order in English [Re: xDuckYouSuckerx]
    #5746671 - 06/13/06 06:15 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Obviously non-white immigrants aren't going to have a pretentious attitude about speaking the English language.

Anywho... This restaurant owner is an asshole, but it's his private business so he can run it anyway he sees fit. He might even end up taking the sign down eventually because I doubt Latinos and other immigrants are going to frequent that establishment often. I know I wouldn't.

And if you're going to start using FedEx to support some redneck with a cheesesteak stand, I suggest finding another hobby.


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"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Order in English [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5746679 - 06/13/06 06:19 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
One could also argue that those who refuse to even attempt to learn English when it is by far the dominant language are practicing divisiveness. And how fucking hard is it to order a sandwich? Jambon croissant, anyone? And I never took one single French lesson.




Some people are simply unable to learn a language outside what they grew up with. There are learning disabilities that are often implicated specifically with learning new languages. I grew up in a bilingual household and I'm unable to grok anything besides English.


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"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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InvisibleMezcal
Registered: 08/11/05
Posts: 1,980
Re: Order in English [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5746681 - 06/13/06 06:20 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I'm not trying to flame you here, but how do you see not being able to order a sandwich due to not being able to communicate being divisive? Maybe you didn't read in the article that "a large majority of immigrant Hispanics want to learn English".

The real irony is that English is the language that SETTLERS and IMMIGRANTS brought to the Americas.

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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Order in English [Re: Mezcal]
    #5746693 - 06/13/06 06:22 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I hope a Native American goes to that stand tries ordering a sandwich in Cree. When the owner points to the sign the Native can say, "We were here first, bitch." :lol:


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"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Order in English [Re: Basilides]
    #5746706 - 06/13/06 06:26 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Your disability must be extreme indeed if you can't figure out how to order a sandwich in another language. Do you think this guy should be obligated to provide a fucking translator? And what languages? Just Spanish? Why?

Feel free to boycott his store. Feel free to boycott my company, as well, because I will no longer hire anyone who can't speak English. I haven't for over 10 years.


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InvisibleGijith
Daisy Chain Eater

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
Re: Order in English [Re: Mezcal]
    #5746710 - 06/13/06 06:26 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

snyder said:
The real irony is that English is the language that SETTLERS and IMMIGRANTS brought to the Americas.




Woah, dude, you blew my mind.

What are you reaching for exactly? What if I'm Indian, walk into a New York bagel place and try ordering a sandwich in Hindi? The guy at the counter can't/won't take my order. Should I protest? How about immigrants that speak Icelandic or Japanese? Why aren't they protesting this bagel place?


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what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?

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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Order in English [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5746725 - 06/13/06 06:30 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Your disability must be extreme indeed if you can't figure out how to order a sandwich in another language. Do you think this guy should be obligated to provide a fucking translator? And what languages? Just Spanish? Why?

Feel free to boycott his store. Feel free to boycott my company, as well, because I will no longer hire anyone who can't speak English. I haven't for over 10 years.




Would you hire someone who can clearly communicate in English, just poorly and heavily accented?

Where do you draw the line?

Language seems to be the last 21st century bastion of 20th century racism.


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"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Order in English [Re: Mezcal]
    #5746745 - 06/13/06 06:33 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

snyder said:
I'm not trying to flame you here, but how do you see not being able to order a sandwich due to not being able to communicate being divisive? Maybe you didn't read in the article that "a large majority of immigrant Hispanics want to learn English".





I didn't read the article at all. I know the story. If they want to learn the language they will. My personal experience with the Hispanic workers here is that they make next to no effort to learn English. I'm going to go big here. IT'S NOT THAT HARD TO LEARN A SANDWICH ORDER. If you can't you're not trying, are you?
Quote:



The real irony is that English is the language that SETTLERS and IMMIGRANTS brought to the Americas.




Well, there were also the Dutch, and the French, and the Spanish, and the Germans, and later the Italians and the Polish and the Russians. They all managed to learn the dominant language.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: Order in English [Re: Basilides]
    #5746777 - 06/13/06 06:42 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Your disability must be extreme indeed if you can't figure out how to order a sandwich in another language. Do you think this guy should be obligated to provide a fucking translator? And what languages? Just Spanish? Why?

Feel free to boycott his store. Feel free to boycott my company, as well, because I will no longer hire anyone who can't speak English. I haven't for over 10 years.




Would you hire someone who can clearly communicate in English, just poorly and heavily accented?

Where do you draw the line?




He has to be able to understand ME. Not nod his head and then demolish the wrong building. I am reasonable about muddling through an accent. I have even gone so far as to hire Texans. And will again. They seem to be able to understand what I tell them.
Quote:



Language seems to be the last 21st century bastion of 20th century racism.




Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. I ask again? Is it only Spanish????? Why only Spanish? Why shouldn't we accomodate Afrikaans? Because there aren't so many? Populationist! How about Portugese? You got something against Brazilians? And Chinese? There's lots of them. You know what? I'm starting to think you might be the racist. You think one particular group of non-English speakers should receive preferential treatment over other non-English speakers, some of whom are actually of other races (unlike Hispanics).


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Order in English [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5746843 - 06/13/06 06:57 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Go with portions. How many people in your area speak Spanish as compared to Swahili or something? I come from an area that is split down English and French, and most businesses attempt to accomadate both languages. If you're living in an area that has alot of Spanish speaking people, learn some Spanish. If you're living in an area that has alot of Swahili speaking people, learn some Swahili. A few decades from now there are going to be areas in the states that will be mostly Spanish speaking if there isn't already. If you're the minority, are you still going to demand people to speak English in a neighborhood that is 70% Spanish or something?


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"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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OfflineRamlaen
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Re: Order in English [Re: Basilides]
    #5747058 - 06/13/06 07:48 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Just a side note, he has never refused business to anyone even if they can't speak english, they just point and order. The sign simply points out to please order in english. It does not say i will refuse to service you if you don't speak english. I listened to a radio interview with him this morning.

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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Order in English [Re: Ramlaen]
    #5747095 - 06/13/06 07:57 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

A simple "Please take your order in English" would suffice. Instead he dons his sign with a bald eagle and "This is America"


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"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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OfflineRamlaen
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Re: Order in English [Re: Basilides]
    #5747127 - 06/13/06 08:05 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

The Guy is a multi millionaire he doesnt care about loss of business its down to a principle issue with it. He has come out and stated he has pleanty of money to fight their stupid lawsuit

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Offlinewilshire
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Re: Order in English [Re: Phred]
    #5747155 - 06/13/06 08:10 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

definitely geno's. it's private property and they can hang a swastika up for all i care.


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Order in English [Re: Ramlaen]
    #5747180 - 06/13/06 08:15 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I hope he wins. That doesn't change the fact that he's a racist douche


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"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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Offlinequillini
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Re: Order in English [Re: Basilides]
    #5747542 - 06/13/06 09:58 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
I hope a Native American goes to that stand tries ordering a sandwich in Cree. When the owner points to the sign the Native can say, "We were here first, bitch." :lol:




:thumbup:

But seriously, in no case whatsoever do I think the gov't ought to intervene on the basis of discrimination.  This isn't discrimination.  Nobody alive in the US today knows what discrimination is; it's just become this wonderful catchphrase used as a last resort by people when things don't go their way.  Like Christians when a courthouse won't post the ten commandments, "thar discriminatin' agin ma jayzus!"  What bullshit.  It's just a fucking sign, it's not the end of the world.  If you want to see the ten commandments, go to church.  If you want to order something in Spanish, go to Taco Bell.  It's a free country, and nobody is infringing on your rights.

Sooner or later, though, we're going to have to recognize that, while the majority of the US population speaks English, the same is not true for the entire landmass on which we live, ie the Western Hemisphere.  English speakers are vastly outnumbered in North and South America, and Spanish is really where it's at.  If present trends continue, it will probably be the dominant language in the US before too long.  That doesn't bother me because Spanish is much more consistent and easier to learn than English.  I'll always have a fondness for English though, it's just so colorful and theatrical in a way Spanish can't be.  But I digress.

If I walked into Ginos and saw that sign I would probably roll my eyes at the ultimate absurdity of it, but that wouldn't stop me from ordering a sandwich.  If I'm in Philly I'll be eating the sandwiches, cultural sensibilities be damned!  If I was in Mexico looking for some Mexican food and they had a sign like that, I would play ball and not feel insulted.

I wonder how many people will become Republicans because of the uproar surrounding this. :sad:


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No; truth, being alive, was not halfway between anything. It was only to be found by continuous excursions into either realm, and though proportion is the final secret, to espouse it at the outset is to insure sterility.

Only connect...

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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: Order in English [Re: Phred]
    #5748131 - 06/14/06 12:56 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

he can do whatever he wants.

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OfflineMAIA
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Re: Order in English [Re: Phred]
    #5749222 - 06/14/06 10:55 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Remeber this ?




America is evolving to hate other cultures, like the nazis did with the Jews, just this time is about Mexican immigrants. Sure the owner has the right to post that sign, the nazis had the same freedom in regards to discriminate others. But is this the kind of freedom americans really want ? "America fuck yeah!"

MAIA


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Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire

Edited by MAIA (06/14/06 11:02 AM)

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Order in English [Re: MAIA]
    #5749225 - 06/14/06 10:57 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)



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OfflineMAIA
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Re: Order in English [Re: Silversoul]
    #5749266 - 06/14/06 11:10 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I'm familiar with Godwin's law. The thing is, i'm not hiperbolizing here. I'm making a direct reference in regards to the subject "discrimination".

:lol:

MAIA


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Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire

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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Order in English [Re: MAIA]
    #5749269 - 06/14/06 11:10 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

MAIA said:
America is evolving to hate other cultures, like the nazis did with the Jews, just this time is about Mexican immigrants.




Bull. Political Correctness is alive and well and white people continue to fawn over minorities because of it.

I haven't gathered that the anti-illegal immigration movement is racist or intolerant of other cultures. I think their concerns are about taxes, social benefits, resource shortages, employment problems, etc.. In my opinion these are all valid concerns. Why should Pedro and his 8 kids waltz into my country and be given free housing, free education, and probably free health care?

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OfflineMAIA
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Re: Order in English [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5749328 - 06/14/06 11:24 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Political Correctness is alive and well and white people continue to fawn over minorities because of it.




Agreed, but IMHO that's not the main problem.

Quote:

I think their concerns are about taxes, social benefits, resource shortages, employment problems, etc.. In my opinion these are all valid concerns.




This time i'll give more reasons for Silversoul to laugh. Those were the same problems German people had back in the 30's. They were led to think that Jews were the ones to blame. Do you think the Mexicans are the ones to blame or is it your government performance ?  :smirk:

MAIA


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Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire

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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Order in English [Re: MAIA]
    #5749358 - 06/14/06 11:34 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

MAIA said:
Quote:

I think their concerns are about taxes, social benefits, resource shortages, employment problems, etc.. In my opinion these are all valid concerns.




Do you think the Mexicans are the ones to blame or is it your government performance ?




The Mexicans aren't to blame for every ill in the country. But, I get pissed when a Mexican works under-the-table, doesn't pay any taxes, and manages to get his kids enrolled in public school. Americans who do pay taxes then have to pay for the education of these kids (the average bill to educate a child in public school is about $10,000 a year I believe). And we have to go out of our way to teach the kids in Spanish.

Basically, I have a problem with them using our services and not contributing into the tax base at all.

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Order in English [Re: MAIA]
    #5749361 - 06/14/06 11:36 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

No one said Mexicans, or even illegal immigrants, can't eat at that guys shop. Just because the employees speak English and it would be very unproductive to teach his employees a second language just so he can sell a sandwich doesn't mean he's racist.

It should just be common sense. If I went to a Spanish-speaking country, I would expect to cater to their language, not the other war around.

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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Order in English [Re: Redstorm]
    #5749371 - 06/14/06 11:39 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Agreed. If you go to another country that has a different language and a different culture you should attempt to assimilate so that you can function in the new society. You should not expect your host society to change and cater to you.

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Order in English [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5749377 - 06/14/06 11:41 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I don't think you should necessarily have to assimilate completely, but you should adopt the appropriate customs and skills to be able to operate in your new habitat.

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Offlinequillini
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Re: Order in English [Re: Redstorm]
    #5749400 - 06/14/06 11:49 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Political Correctness is alive and well and white people continue to fawn over minorities because of it.




Bull. White people who fawn over minorities do so because they choose to, and then they blame "political correctness" so they can avoid taking responsibility for their own actions and decisions.

I'm white, and I'm just as much of an asshole toward minorities as I am toward everybody else.


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Re: Order in English [Re: Redstorm]
    #5749405 - 06/14/06 11:50 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Exactly. You should not forsake your identity and your heritage, but you should not expect everything to change for you and to be handed to you.

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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Order in English [Re: quillini]
    #5749424 - 06/14/06 11:54 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

quillini said:
White people who fawn over minorities do so because they choose to, and then they blame "political correctness" so they can avoid taking responsibility for their own actions and decisions.




Political Correctness is a social phenomenon. It is a nebulous but strictly adhered to ideology for a lot of people.

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Offlinequillini
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Re: Order in English [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5749547 - 06/14/06 12:37 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

That's funny, I've never once heard anybody claim "political correctness" to be their guiding ideology. All the publicity this ideology gets is negative.

IMO, "political correctness" is one of those things, like "liberal media" or "vast right-wing conspiracy", that doesn't really exist except in the minds of people who insist on finding some justification for their irrational fear or hatred.


--------------------
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Re: Order in English [Re: quillini]
    #5749663 - 06/14/06 01:19 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

The owner of Geno's is a hero. Absolute hero.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Order in English [Re: quillini]
    #5749729 - 06/14/06 01:40 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

quillini said:
That's funny, I've never once heard anybody claim "political correctness" to be their guiding ideology.




Political correctness is an exaggerated form of Leftism. Nobody ever claims it or admits to it.

Quote:

quillini said:
IMO, "political correctness" is one of those things, like "liberal media" or "vast right-wing conspiracy", that doesn't really exist except in the minds of people who insist on finding some justification for their irrational fear or hatred.




Blind jingoistic patriotism exists amongst certain people of the world. Religious fanaticism exists amongst certain people of the world. And, political correctness exists amongst certain people of the world.

Some common tenets of political correctness:

1. A hatred of the strong and a love of the weak in every situation.
2. An almost irrational desire for tolerance of or affinity toward anything that is different or unnacceptable in the parent culture.
3. An aversion to cultural, geographical, or national ties (unless they are exhibited by an "oppressed" people). These ties are often viewed as backwards and almost caveman-like.
4. A yearning for human enlightenment and utopia that is based upon materialism and "progressiveness". Often this progressiveness involves the muzzling of human behavior and economic activity.

Edited by RandalFlagg (06/14/06 01:43 PM)

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Re: Order in English [Re: Phred]
    #5749862 - 06/14/06 02:34 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

From the way this thread is going off on tangents, I guess I must have phrased my original question too broadly. Rather than ask whose side you are on, it would have been better if I had asked if you agree with the actions the city government is taking to harass the restaurant owner.

So here is the new question to refocus the thread:

Do you agree with the Philadelphia city government's actions in this matter? If so, why? If not, why not?





Phred


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Re: Order in English [Re: Phred]
    #5749930 - 06/14/06 02:58 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I think the city is off base dictating how a private business is run.

I also think immigrants have a duty to learn the country's language and since that's not going to be any flavor of Native American, the next best thing is to integrate and learn English. That's the language our founding documents are written in and is the predominant language of the country.

If I move to France, I think I would be insulting the French were I not to at least learn passable French.

In south Florida, where I live and grew up, a huge fraction of the population that has been here for decades still can't speak a word of English. Instead, Latinos congregate in neighborhoods where all the local businesses speak Spanish. They do this to avoid learning English.

Also, it's interesting to note that the International Civil Aviation Organization, the group that manages the rules of aviation, has designated English as the official language of pilots. To be issued a pilot's license by any signatory country (pretty much all countries) you must speak and write English well enough to work in the system.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Edited by Diploid (06/16/06 05:48 AM)

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OfflinexDuckYouSuckerx
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Re: Order in English [Re: Mezcal]
    #5750020 - 06/14/06 03:29 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

snyder said:
Because it's a lot easier to call discrimination free speech when one isn't often a victim of it.

Now, I'm not calling anybody a racist, but I think it's easy to see that this is an issue of sensitivity; in stead of choosing to develop a culture of brotherhood and equality, he chose to be "mean-spirited and divisive" to borrow Kenney's words.



I don't mean to be rude, but thats freaking retarded. How is it "discrimination" for a man to run his business as he sees fit? If he doesn't speak spanish, and Pedro comes in and says "Dos bisteak por favor", what the fuck should he do? Magically understand the language? What if someone comes in and speaks in Hindi, or farsi? It's this guys job to understand every language in the world? If he doesn't understand ooga-booga language from Zimbabwe, hes discriminating and a racist? How idiotic.


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Re: Order in English [Re: Basilides]
    #5750037 - 06/14/06 03:32 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
Obviously non-white immigrants aren't going to have a pretentious attitude about speaking the English language.



If you ran a business and someone came in speaking Farsi, what would you do? Immediately call a translator, at your expense? Learn their language, at your expense? Hardly any sane person would do that. They'd make it clear that they spoke one language and if you didn't speak it, well, communication as a whole is impossible.
Quote:


Anywho.. This restaurant owner is an asshole, but it's his private business so he can run it anyway he sees fit. He might even end up taking the sign down eventually because I doubt Latinos and other immigrants are going to frequent that establishment often. I know I wouldn't.



Actually, if you'd have read the initial story, you'd see that non-english speaking people DO come in there and the employees help them to order, in english. You'd also see that lots of immigrants are coming in there.
Quote:


And if you're going to start using FedEx to support some redneck with a cheesesteak stand, I suggest finding another hobby.




A redneck? I'm glad that you rally against alleged prejudice with your own version of prejudice.


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OfflinexDuckYouSuckerx
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Re: Order in English [Re: Basilides]
    #5750044 - 06/14/06 03:34 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
Some people are simply unable to learn a language outside what they grew up with. There are learning disabilities that are often implicated specifically with learning new languages. I grew up in a bilingual household and I'm unable to grok anything besides English.




If it's so hard to learn another language, how is the clerk supposed to understand every language in the world? Setting a standard of English, in a restaurant in America, with all employees that speak English, seems fair to me. You should invent your own language and demand that everyone else speak it.


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Re: Order in English [Re: xDuckYouSuckerx]
    #5750363 - 06/14/06 05:39 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Do you agree with the Philadelphia city government's actions in this matter? If so, why? If not, why not?




How is this different from the original question?

This thread is not really about some restaurant in Philly; it's really about "political correctness", isn't it? So that's why I'm going to pick at that theme like a scab.

RandalFlagg, your definition of "political correctness" sounds like run-of-the-mill leftism to me; I'm not seeing the difference. Your comparisons to jingoism and religious fanaticism are interesting, as far as things nobody freely admits to. But I would say that, ideologically, people do ultimately own up to being religious fanatics or jingoists; they just don't use those words. There are plenty of religious fanatics where I live, and while they don't refer to themselves as "fanatics", they'll tell you in a minute that they are fundamentalists, that the Bible is the unquestionable word of God, etc. That's a fanatic if you ask me; if you ask them, they are fundamentalist.

Anybody that drives around with "nuke em all n let ala sort em out" is, to me, a jingoist. But to them, they are a patriot. Different names for the same thing.

So is it the case that someone may call themselves "progressive", while to someone else they are "politically correct"? Maybe, but not necessarily. "Politically correct" is not used as a label so much as a judgement. If someone can be politically correct, that means someone else who holds a differing opinion is politically incorrect. Correct, incorrect, in relation to what? To leftism? If that's the case, why is there not a rightist counterpart? And why do I hear very few leftists/liberals complaining about it? It seems as though liberals speak their minds and don't give a damn what conservatives think, while conservatives are unable to do the same. Conservatives have talk radio, several synidicated columnists, a cable news network, and countless blogs through which to express themselves, yet they still whine about how everyone is politically correct.

If political correctness equates to liberalism/leftism, then clearly not everyone is that way, as tends to be evidenced on election day. So what is all the fuss about?

Perhaps conservatives should take a page from the liberal playbook and stop giving so much of a damn what people think; just speak your mind and be yourself, without crying about whenever people disagree with you. Some opinions are better thought out than others, but the question of "correct" and "incorrect" really doesn't enter into it.


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Re: Order in English [Re: quillini]
    #5750402 - 06/14/06 05:55 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

How is this different from the original question?




Because it puts the focus squarely where it belongs -- on government action. In this specific case, on ludicrous harrassment of people who have done nothing wrong.

Quote:

This thread is not really about some restaurant in Philly; it's really about "political correctness", isn't it?




In actuality, it is about neither a restaurant nor about "political correctness" but about the tendency of government -- at all levels -- to stick its nose in where it has no business, to make mountains out of molehills, to harass (and cause extra expense for -- think legal bills) hard working legitimate businessmen who have not only broken no laws but have in fact done nothing wrong at all.

The focus should not be on the business owner at all but on the meddlesome and destructive bureaucrats with no sense of proportion. Or any sense at all, it would appear.




Phred


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Re: Order in English [Re: xDuckYouSuckerx]
    #5750412 - 06/14/06 06:04 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

xDuckYouSuckerx said:
Quote:

Basilides said:
Obviously non-white immigrants aren't going to have a pretentious attitude about speaking the English language.



If you ran a business and someone came in speaking Farsi, what would you do? Immediately call a translator, at your expense? Learn their language, at your expense? Hardly any sane person would do that. They'd make it clear that they spoke one language and if you didn't speak it, well, communication as a whole is impossible.
Quote:


Anywho.. This restaurant owner is an asshole, but it's his private business so he can run it anyway he sees fit. He might even end up taking the sign down eventually because I doubt Latinos and other immigrants are going to frequent that establishment often. I know I wouldn't.



Actually, if you'd have read the initial story, you'd see that non-english speaking people DO come in there and the employees help them to order, in english. You'd also see that lots of immigrants are coming in there.
Quote:


And if you're going to start using FedEx to support some redneck with a cheesesteak stand, I suggest finding another hobby.




A redneck? I'm glad that you rally against alleged prejudice with your own version of prejudice.




Sorry, redneck hating isn't a prejudice. It's natural order


--------------------


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Re: Order in English [Re: Basilides]
    #5750429 - 06/14/06 06:09 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Brilliant fucking answer, brainchild.


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Re: Order in English [Re: xDuckYouSuckerx]
    #5750454 - 06/14/06 06:15 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Mother always told me I was smart


--------------------


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Re: Order in English [Re: Phred]
    #5750739 - 06/14/06 07:20 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
From the way this thread is going off on tangents, I guess I must have phrased my original question too broadly.





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Re: Order in English [Re: Phred]
    #5750763 - 06/14/06 07:24 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Do you agree with the Philadelphia city government's actions in this matter? If so, why? If not, why not?




I disagree with the city. it is not the place of the government to dictate how such a business is run. however, if it were a government/tax-funded enterprise, then I would have a problem with it.

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Re: Order in English [Re: Vvellum]
    #5752309 - 06/15/06 03:28 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

bi0 said:
Quote:

Do you agree with the Philadelphia city government's actions in this matter? If so, why? If not, why not?




I disagree with the city. it is not the place of the government to dictate how such a business is run. however, if it were a government/tax-funded enterprise, then I would have a problem with it.



Actually, when the governmentdcoddles those who don't speak english, it's far worse. No taxpayer money should be spent on such foolishness. Learn english or stay the fuck home.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Order in English [Re: Phred]
    #5752317 - 06/15/06 03:40 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

In actuality, it is about neither a restaurant nor about "political correctness" but about the tendency of government -- at all levels -- to stick its nose in where it has no business, to make mountains out of molehills, to harass (and cause extra expense for -- think legal bills) hard working legitimate businessmen who have not only broken no laws but have in fact done nothing wrong at all.




What do you think about the Patriot Act then?

The people who say that gov't ought not to intervene with business owners are the same people who say the gov't has every right to crawl up your ass looking for "national security threats".

Hypocrisy?


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OfflinexDuckYouSuckerx
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Re: Order in English [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #5752335 - 06/15/06 04:09 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Learn english or stay the fuck home.




Now THAT would be a great bumper sticker!


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Order in English [Re: xDuckYouSuckerx]
    #5752382 - 06/15/06 05:01 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

It amazes me how immigrants today are demanding so much and get offended so easily. It wasn't too long ago that immigration officials were handing out new surnames along with entry into the new country. Can you imagine the uproar today if INS tried to change immigrants names into something more American?

I have a sign up in my store that says "I reserve the right to refuse service to anybody for any reason what-so-ever." I don't see how my sign is any different than his "Please speak English when ordering" sign. If anything, mine is a bit more rude. People need to get over their fragile little feelings. We have allowed the politicians to turn us into a bunch of lawsuit happy, spoiled children that scream bloody murder when we don't get our way. I guess it is easier to steal a babies lollipop when it is distracted by manufactured social issues.


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Re: Order in English [Re: quillini]
    #5752547 - 06/15/06 07:11 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

What do you think about the Patriot Act then?




This thread is not about the Patriot Act. If you wish to discuss the Act, bump one of the several dozen existing threads in this forum which discuss it.

Quote:

The people who say that gov't ought not to intervene with business owners are the same people who say the gov't has every right to crawl up your ass looking for "national security threats".




Those people have a firmer grasp of what constitutes a legitimate function of government than the Philadelphia city government does.




Phred


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Re: Order in English [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #5752627 - 06/15/06 07:44 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Actually, when the governmentd coddles those who don't speak english, it's far worse. No taxpayer money should be spent on such foolishness. Learn english or stay the fuck home.




where in the US constitution does it say that citizens must know English?

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Re: Order in English [Re: Vvellum]
    #5752855 - 06/15/06 09:12 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Where in the US consitution does it say that taxpayers are obligated to support those that don't?

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Re: Order in English [Re: Vvellum]
    #5752858 - 06/15/06 09:14 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

> where in the US constitution does it say that citizens must know English?

Where in the US constitution does it say that store owners must be able to cater to both English and non-English speakers? This isn't about forcing people to speak English, it is about forcing people to speak languages OTHER than English. More to the point, it is about big government sticking their fingers into places that they shouldn't. Save me from extermists that want to kill me, but let me run my business as I please.


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Re: Order in English [Re: quillini]
    #5752860 - 06/15/06 09:15 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:


The people who say that gov't ought not to intervene with business owners are the same people who say the gov't has every right to crawl up your ass looking for "national security threats".




Not true. I feel that business owners should be free from regulation from the most part, but at the same time want the gov't to stay out of my business.

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Re: Order in English [Re: Redstorm]
    #5752863 - 06/15/06 09:19 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah that struck me as an odd statement. Many people who say the government shouldn't intefere with business owners have well thought-out and consistent beliefs based on a desire to increase individual liberties.

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Re: Order in English [Re: Seuss]
    #5753330 - 06/15/06 11:51 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Where in the US constitution does it say that store owners must be able to cater to both English and non-English speakers? This isn't about forcing people to speak English, it is about forcing people to speak languages OTHER than English. More to the point, it is about big government sticking their fingers into places that they shouldn't. Save me from extermists that want to kill me, but let me run my business as I please.




no need to get all huffy on me. please re-read my posts more carefully. I never supported any of the such.

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Re: Order in English [Re: Seuss]
    #5755290 - 06/15/06 09:12 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
......It wasn't too long ago that immigration officials were handing out new surnames along with entry into the new country.......




I have a friend who's entire family was renamed when they got here. He told me that they just went down the line and gave them new first names. They had no say in what they would be called. They did keep their real names as middle names, though.


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Re: Order in English [Re: Vvellum]
    #5756204 - 06/16/06 03:08 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

bi0 said:
Quote:

Actually, when the governmentd coddles those who don't speak english, it's far worse. No taxpayer money should be spent on such foolishness. Learn english or stay the fuck home.




where in the US constitution does it say that citizens must know English?




I don't recall saying anything about the Constitution, but seeing as you brought it up......

where in the US constitution does it say that that non english speakers should be coddeled and treated differently?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Order in English [Re: Vvellum]
    #5756263 - 06/16/06 04:29 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

> No need to get all huffy on me. please re-read my posts more carefully. I never supported any of the such.

Huffy?  Isn't that a bicycle?  It was a misreply, intended for Ythan, not you, bi0.  :wink:

> where in the US constitution does it say that that non english speakers should be coddeled and treated differently?

Thats what I said!  What language was the constitution written in again... Spanglishbonincs, if I remember incorrectly...  :rolleyes:


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Re: Order in English [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #5756357 - 06/16/06 06:05 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

How are they being "coddled" and treated "differently"


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OfflinexDuckYouSuckerx
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Re: Order in English [Re: Basilides]
    #5756370 - 06/16/06 06:23 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

If someone came in that spoke Zimbabwean and couldn't order, would you be upset with the store owner for not speaking zimbabwean? Or would you understand that the guy can't speak EVERY language and he's doing what he can to operate his business. His lack of speaking Zimbabwean will only hurt his business, if their are sufficient people turned away because the employees couldn't understand their jibberjabber. How is this a matter for the government?

Do you think that, to open a business, you should have to speak, and have your employees trained to converse in, ever language known to man, or do you think that you can offer the service that oyu want as you see fit and if people don'tl ike it or can't communicate with you, you'll either learn new languages to keep your business going or you'll go out of business?


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Order in English [Re: Basilides]
    #5756371 - 06/16/06 06:23 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

> How are they being "coddled" and treated "differently"

Oh, I'm sorry... you cant read or speak the language the constitution was written in... thats ok, I don't mind spending tax money to rewrite all the government forms in to two languages... and I don't mind that we spend money on schools that teach in your native langauge rather than defacto language used by everybody else... but I uderstand, you came here illegally and have special needs that the "rich" tax payers should cover for you... oh, don't worry about paying taxes... you have family back in your home country that needs that money...

When it costs me money because people that legally immigrate to my country refuse to learn the language of their new home, I start to get upset. I don't mind paying for schooling to teach legal immigrants the language and culture of their new home, but I will be damned if I am going to pay extra so that they can maintain their own culture out of laziness. They made the choice to move here. I will warmly embrace with open arms those that wish to become Americans. At the same time, I will give the quick boot to the greedy pricks that come for the money, but are unwilling to accept a change in culture.

Getting back on topic, for Phred... look at how much money it has cost because somebody that couldn't speak English got offended that an American business owner put up a sign asking the patrons to speak English when conducting business. Think of how much food could be purchased for the American needy that is instead wasted because non-English speaking immigrants are too damn greedy to learn the language spoken by the majority of the people where they choose to live.


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OfflinexDuckYouSuckerx
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Re: Order in English [Re: Seuss]
    #5756373 - 06/16/06 06:27 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
Oh, I'm sorry... you cant read or speak the language the constitution was written in... thats ok, I don't mind spending tax money to rewrite all the government forms in to two languages...




Why just two? What about people that speak French and come to America? Surely you wouldn't demand that they learn English. Rewrite it in all five hundred human languages and demand that every American speak every one of those languages before we are allowed to be citizens here. Of course, immigrants would be exempt from this ruling... we wouldn't want to be racist imperalist jingoist Americans!!

Quote:


When it costs me money because people that legally immigrate to my country refuse to learn the language of their new home, I start to get upset.



I bet that most people who support mandatory reeducation camps for the store owner, or whatever they want to do to punish the guy, probably are in the lower income brackets. Taxes to them mean "Dude I got a whoppin check for $600 man, lets go buy some bud and pizza!". Taxes to me mean that I'm dropping the cost of a new car, each year, into bullshit programs.


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OfflinexDuckYouSuckerx
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Re: Order in English [Re: xDuckYouSuckerx]
    #5756381 - 06/16/06 06:34 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Yet another reason immigrants should learn English.



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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Order in English [Re: xDuckYouSuckerx]
    #5756390 - 06/16/06 06:40 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

There's no such thing as a language called "Zimbabwean". Most people in Zimbabwe speak English. :rolleyes:


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"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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Re: Order in English [Re: Seuss]
    #5756460 - 06/16/06 07:40 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Seuss if you run for president can I be your running mate? We'd have this country whipped into shape in no time. :grin:

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Order in English [Re: Seuss]
    #5756463 - 06/16/06 07:45 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I don't mind spending tax money to rewrite all the government forms in to two languages

Your comment is less rhetorical than you think:

A few years ago, a law was passed requiring that the Florida driver's license rule booklet be printed in English AND Spanish. Additionally, the practical driving test has to be available with Spanish-speaking examiners.

I won't even be surprised when the Florida legislature passes a law requiring road signs be bilingual too. How do you say 'yield' in Spanish anyway? :shake:


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1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Order in English [Re: Diploid]
    #5756725 - 06/16/06 09:53 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

How do you say "Cheesesteak" in Cherokee?


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"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Order in English [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #5757943 - 06/16/06 04:17 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
How do you say "Cheesesteak" in Cherokee?




Penis


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OfflineMAIA
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Re: Order in English [Re: Redstorm]
    #5772190 - 06/20/06 11:30 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
No one said Mexicans, or even illegal immigrants, can't eat at that guys shop. Just because the employees speak English and it would be very unproductive to teach his employees a second language just so he can sell a sandwich doesn't mean he's racist.

It should just be common sense. If I went to a Spanish-speaking country, I would expect to cater to their language, not the other war around.




Agreed. In fact, i also think immigrants should learn the language of their host country. I was also an immigrant in Venezuela and i had to learn how to speak spanish, it was an experience that made me richer in the way i can express myself and understand others. BUT the issue here is about the sign and the way the owner of that restaurant wants people to order in english. As i see it, and as it is worded, the sign screams discrimination, and i believe he might have chosen better words to express the idea "please learn and use the english language".

On the other hand, if you ever come to Portugal and visit ANY restaurant in Algarve (the most touristic zone) and many other places, you'll have every menu written in portuguese, english, german and dutch. I guess the attitude is a bit different here, it's good to learn the language basics of any host country, but we accept that not all people have the same skills to do so. Some do, some don't, but hey, i don't see that much difference when comparing to what happens in that restaurant: some do speak but some don't.

MAIA


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Order in English [Re: Phred]
    #5772448 - 06/20/06 01:02 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Im for the restaurant owner.

If a company can not hire me because I smoke or drink......then any restaurant should have the right to serve whom they please.

As far as the sign goes........I think that sign should be placed in EVERY public place.

If your going to come here to work.....learn the local language......don't expect me to learn your language :rolleyes:


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Re: Order in English [Re: Phred]
    #5773866 - 06/20/06 08:00 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I don't understand the controversy. He privately owns a business. He chooses to enforce rules upon ordering from his establishment. People have the right and freedom to order from any store they want.

If they have a problem with it choose to order from another store. How hard is that?

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Re: Order in English [Re: newuser1492]
    #5780137 - 06/22/06 10:59 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

To be fair, the sign in the window does say "Please" before "Order in English." I'm afraid this whole thing was taken out of context. It's a very busy cheesesteak shop, and the whole English thing was done for economic reasons, namely to expedite the ordering process. It was not done to discriminate as much as it was done to make sure they got everyone's order in a timely fashion.

Edit: I know because I live about an hour away and have been to both Geno's and Pat's (the competing cheesesteak place across the street). I'm sure both places are seeing an upswing in business. Geno's has to be profiting because it's so famous now, and Pat's has also got to be profiting because of all the people "boycotting" Geno's.


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Here comes the sun, do n do do,
Here comes the sun, and I say,
It's alright...

Edited by IamHungry (06/22/06 01:42 PM)

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Invisiblegone
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Re: Order in English [Re: IamHungry]
    #5781572 - 06/22/06 07:18 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I'm behind the owner 110%. The owner probably doesn't speak spanish, what is he supposed to do hire a translator, paying money out of his own wallet?
I live in AZ, and when my buddies and I go to mexico we speak spanish any time we are able to. When we order food it's simple:
1)look at menu
2)read menu
3)repeat item on menu to best of ability
4)say "por favor"

I don't know spanish, but i do my best to honor their customs when i'm in their country. Being in a foreign country is a privilege, not a right.

Edited by hornet (06/22/06 07:19 PM)

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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Order in English [Re: IamHungry]
    #5781602 - 06/22/06 07:26 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I think a greater question would be whether this restaurant owner has had any problems with people ordering in foreign languages before or if he just put the sign up without a preceding cause and effect.


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Re: Order in English [Re: Basilides]
    #5782648 - 06/23/06 12:40 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I think it's a pretty pointless sign. Presumably, if people can read English, they can order in English. So what's the point of having a sign like that that's in English?


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Re: Order in English [Re: Silversoul]
    #5783028 - 06/23/06 05:34 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Publicity?


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Re: Order in English [Re: niteowl]
    #5788496 - 06/25/06 02:41 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I'm not thrilled to be on this side of the debate, but I think the store-owner can put up any sign he likes he his restaurant.  That doesn't change the fact that he's a publicity hog and a jackass to boot.

"And how fucking hard is it to order a sandwich? Jambon croissant, anyone? And I never took one single French lesson." -- Zappaisgod

I guess that explains why you got it wrong.  Enjoy your lump of ham and croissant, buddy.

"The sign simply points out to please order in english." --Ramlaen

I'm just taking this from what I read in the article that was provided, but the sign DOESN'T say please order in english.  It says This is AMERICA... WHEN ORDERING SPEAK ENGLISH.  That's what makes this guy an asshole, to my mind.  Whatever language they happen to be ordering in, they know what country their in and it's insulting to insinuate otherwise.  A 'please' would be good, too.  Nice of you to add that for him, Ramlaen.  Never mind that for his sign to be proper english, he'd need a comma after 'ordering'.

"I reserve the right to refuse service to anybody for any reason what-so-ever." I don't see how my sign is any different than his "Please speak English when ordering" sign. If anything, mine is a bit more rude" --Seuss

Really?  'Cause I think your sign is much more polite.  It doesn't single people out in regards to their language or imply that they're idiots just because they happen to have been brought up speaking a different language.  He could have gone with 'I won't be able to serve you if you don't order in english' and not sounded like such a jerk, but he wouldn't have gotten all of this attention if he had, now would he have?

How do you say "Cheesesteak" in Cherokee? -- BabyHitler :thumbup: :thumbup:

Would any of this have been brought to any of our attention if midterms weren't coming up in the U.S.?  I sincerely doubt it...


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Re: Order in English [Re: Panoramix]
    #5788710 - 06/25/06 06:24 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

The sign does say please, the lovely reporter left it out for shock value thank you. Also note he has never refused business from non english speaking customers, simple makes them point to what they want.

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OfflinePanoramix
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Re: Order in English [Re: Ramlaen]
    #5789469 - 06/25/06 01:59 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

"The sign does say please, the lovely reporter left it out for shock value thank you."

So that's what that '...' was about then, eh? Well, my apologies, Ramlaen, and a hearty fuck-you to that reporter for writing such a misleading report.


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