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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Order in English
    #5746252 - 06/13/06 03:50 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I've been following this story since it first broke, and was halfway expecting to see someone else post about it by now. Since no one has, I'll provide this link,

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/14803774.htm

then ask this question of the PA&L readership:

Whose side are you on in this case, and why? The restaurant owner or the city government?





Phred


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OfflinexDuckYouSuckerx
xBannedx
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/25/06
Posts: 1,410
Last seen: 17 years, 7 months
Re: Order in English [Re: Phred]
    #5746304 - 06/13/06 04:03 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

It's a private business, I don't see any need for Nanny State to step in. If people don't like it, don't go there. I, personally, would PayPal orders for cheese steaks to be FedEx'ed to me all day long just to support this guy if I could. In the original story the reporter saw some Pedro's come in and an employee helped them order in english.


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Unions are the bastions of the mediocre. - luvdemshrooms

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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Order in English [Re: Phred]
    #5746334 - 06/13/06 04:13 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

It's a private enterprise. He has the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason, including the language they speak.


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OfflineSchwip
Never sleeps.
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 3,937
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
Re: Order in English [Re: Silversoul]
    #5746353 - 06/13/06 04:21 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Its also worth noting that they are not pricks about it and have never ever flat out REFUSED a customer to date.

They gladly help people learn the english words to order.


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" If the sky were to suddenly open up there would be no law. There would be no rule. There would only be you and your memories... the choices you've made, and the people you've touched. If this world were to end there would only be you and him and no-one else. "

..............

"MAN! You know there aint no such thing as left over crack!"


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OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 4 months, 30 days
Re: Order in English [Re: Phred]
    #5746372 - 06/13/06 04:34 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I definitely side with the business. As stated earlier, it is a private enterprise and the owner should be allowed to determine the method in which it operates.

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InvisibleGijith
Daisy Chain Eater

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
Re: Order in English [Re: Redstorm]
    #5746449 - 06/13/06 05:11 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Same here. Siding with the business. Until an English speaking Mexican is denied service, I don't see any problem. Even then, the owner has his rights.

One thing: The sign is in English, right? Does it serve any real business related purpose?


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what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?

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InvisibleMezcal
Registered: 08/11/05
Posts: 1,980
Re: Order in English [Re: Phred]
    #5746456 - 06/13/06 05:14 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Why do I have a feeling that those who have responded are all white non-immigrants?

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OfflineRosettaStoned
Stranger

Registered: 05/29/06
Posts: 540
Loc: North America
Last seen: 16 years, 9 days
Re: Order in English [Re: Redstorm]
    #5746458 - 06/13/06 05:15 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I think this guy sure got some huge free advertisement out of this lol


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"Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Order in English [Re: RosettaStoned]
    #5746543 - 06/13/06 05:37 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I heard on the radio that his business has gone through the roof. Anybody can certainly chose to boycott his store. Hell, the illegals (or anybody else) can picket outside, within reason, as long as they don't disrupt the flow of traffic


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OfflinexDuckYouSuckerx
xBannedx
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/25/06
Posts: 1,410
Last seen: 17 years, 7 months
Re: Order in English [Re: Mezcal]
    #5746545 - 06/13/06 05:38 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

snyder said:
Why do I have a feeling that those who have responded are all white non-immigrants?




Why would it matter?


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Unions are the bastions of the mediocre. - luvdemshrooms

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InvisibleMezcal
Registered: 08/11/05
Posts: 1,980
Re: Order in English [Re: xDuckYouSuckerx]
    #5746565 - 06/13/06 05:43 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

xDuckYouSuckerx said:
Quote:

snyder said:
Why do I have a feeling that those who have responded are all white non-immigrants?




Why would it matter?




Because it's a lot easier to call discrimination free speech when one isn't often a victim of it.

Now, I'm not calling anybody a racist, but I think it's easy to see that this is an issue of sensitivity; in stead of choosing to develop a culture of brotherhood and equality, he chose to be "mean-spirited and divisive" to borrow Kenney's words.

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Order in English [Re: Mezcal]
    #5746650 - 06/13/06 06:08 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

One could also argue that those who refuse to even attempt to learn English when it is by far the dominant language are practicing divisiveness. And how fucking hard is it to order a sandwich? Jambon croissant, anyone? And I never took one single French lesson.


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OfflineBasilides
Servent ofWisdom
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
Loc: Crown and Heart
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: Order in English [Re: xDuckYouSuckerx]
    #5746671 - 06/13/06 06:15 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Obviously non-white immigrants aren't going to have a pretentious attitude about speaking the English language.

Anywho... This restaurant owner is an asshole, but it's his private business so he can run it anyway he sees fit. He might even end up taking the sign down eventually because I doubt Latinos and other immigrants are going to frequent that establishment often. I know I wouldn't.

And if you're going to start using FedEx to support some redneck with a cheesesteak stand, I suggest finding another hobby.


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"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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OfflineBasilides
Servent ofWisdom
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
Loc: Crown and Heart
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: Order in English [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5746679 - 06/13/06 06:19 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
One could also argue that those who refuse to even attempt to learn English when it is by far the dominant language are practicing divisiveness. And how fucking hard is it to order a sandwich? Jambon croissant, anyone? And I never took one single French lesson.




Some people are simply unable to learn a language outside what they grew up with. There are learning disabilities that are often implicated specifically with learning new languages. I grew up in a bilingual household and I'm unable to grok anything besides English.


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"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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InvisibleMezcal
Registered: 08/11/05
Posts: 1,980
Re: Order in English [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5746681 - 06/13/06 06:20 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I'm not trying to flame you here, but how do you see not being able to order a sandwich due to not being able to communicate being divisive? Maybe you didn't read in the article that "a large majority of immigrant Hispanics want to learn English".

The real irony is that English is the language that SETTLERS and IMMIGRANTS brought to the Americas.

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OfflineBasilides
Servent ofWisdom
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
Loc: Crown and Heart
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: Order in English [Re: Mezcal]
    #5746693 - 06/13/06 06:22 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I hope a Native American goes to that stand tries ordering a sandwich in Cree. When the owner points to the sign the Native can say, "We were here first, bitch." :lol:


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"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Order in English [Re: Basilides]
    #5746706 - 06/13/06 06:26 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Your disability must be extreme indeed if you can't figure out how to order a sandwich in another language. Do you think this guy should be obligated to provide a fucking translator? And what languages? Just Spanish? Why?

Feel free to boycott his store. Feel free to boycott my company, as well, because I will no longer hire anyone who can't speak English. I haven't for over 10 years.


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InvisibleGijith
Daisy Chain Eater

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
Re: Order in English [Re: Mezcal]
    #5746710 - 06/13/06 06:26 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

snyder said:
The real irony is that English is the language that SETTLERS and IMMIGRANTS brought to the Americas.




Woah, dude, you blew my mind.

What are you reaching for exactly? What if I'm Indian, walk into a New York bagel place and try ordering a sandwich in Hindi? The guy at the counter can't/won't take my order. Should I protest? How about immigrants that speak Icelandic or Japanese? Why aren't they protesting this bagel place?


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what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?

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OfflineBasilides
Servent ofWisdom
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
Loc: Crown and Heart
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: Order in English [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5746725 - 06/13/06 06:30 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Your disability must be extreme indeed if you can't figure out how to order a sandwich in another language. Do you think this guy should be obligated to provide a fucking translator? And what languages? Just Spanish? Why?

Feel free to boycott his store. Feel free to boycott my company, as well, because I will no longer hire anyone who can't speak English. I haven't for over 10 years.




Would you hire someone who can clearly communicate in English, just poorly and heavily accented?

Where do you draw the line?

Language seems to be the last 21st century bastion of 20th century racism.


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"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Order in English [Re: Mezcal]
    #5746745 - 06/13/06 06:33 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

snyder said:
I'm not trying to flame you here, but how do you see not being able to order a sandwich due to not being able to communicate being divisive? Maybe you didn't read in the article that "a large majority of immigrant Hispanics want to learn English".





I didn't read the article at all. I know the story. If they want to learn the language they will. My personal experience with the Hispanic workers here is that they make next to no effort to learn English. I'm going to go big here. IT'S NOT THAT HARD TO LEARN A SANDWICH ORDER. If you can't you're not trying, are you?
Quote:



The real irony is that English is the language that SETTLERS and IMMIGRANTS brought to the Americas.




Well, there were also the Dutch, and the French, and the Spanish, and the Germans, and later the Italians and the Polish and the Russians. They all managed to learn the dominant language.


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Shop: Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates   PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale


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