Home | Community | Message Board

Original Seeds Store
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Original Sensible Seeds Feminized Cannabis Seeds   Mushroom-Hut Mono Tub Substrate   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
InvisibleMasFina
Snow Shredder
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/08/06
Posts: 788
Loc: Mountains
McKenna-Mushrooms as Extraterrestrials
    #5744884 - 06/13/06 04:31 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

What the mushroom says about itself is this: that it is an extraterrestrial organism, that spores can survive the conditions of interstellar space. They are deep, deep purple - the color that they would have to be to absorb the deep ultraviolet end of the spectrum. The casing of a spore is one of the hardest organic substances known. The electron density approaches that of a metal.

Is it possible that these mushrooms never evolved on earth? That is what the Stropharia cubensis itself suggests. Global currents may form on the outside of the spore. The spores are very light and by Brownian motion are capable of percolation to the edge if the planet's atmosphere. Then, through interaction with energetic particles, some small number could actually escape into space. Understand that this is an evolutionary strategy where only one in many billions of spores actually makes the transition between the stars - a biological strategy for radiating throughout the galaxy without a technology. Of course this happens over very long periods of time. But if you think that the galaxy is roughly 100,000 light-years from edge to edge, if something were moving only one one-hundredth the speed of light - now that's not a tremendous speed that presents problems to any advanced technology - it could cross the galaxy in one hundred million years. There's life on this planet 1.8 billion years old; that's eighteen times longer than one hundred million years. So, looking at the galaxy on those time scales, one sees that the percolation of spores between the stars is a perfectly viable strategy for biology. It might take millions of years, but it's the same principle by which plants migrate into a desert or across an ocean.


--------------------
A Good Substrate: Poo With Extras
Good Liquid Culture, Step by Step
Timer Modification
PM me if you are interested in buying 140ml syringes. $6 each + $7 shipping


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblepac_man
~
Registered: 05/01/06
Posts: 200
Re: McKenna-Mushrooms as Extraterrestrials [Re: MasFina]
    #5744938 - 06/13/06 05:29 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

.


Edited by pac_man (06/17/06 09:43 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblepac_man
~
Registered: 05/01/06
Posts: 200
Re: McKenna-Mushrooms as Extraterrestrials [Re: pac_man]
    #5744940 - 06/13/06 05:33 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

.


Edited by pac_man (06/17/06 09:43 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMasFina
Snow Shredder
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/08/06
Posts: 788
Loc: Mountains
Re: McKenna-Mushrooms as Extraterrestrials [Re: pac_man]
    #5745391 - 06/13/06 11:11 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Well, I don't think that TMK wrote all of these things in a completely serious tone. He admits says many things are possibilities, but not necessarily truths. I would not discount a theory of his just because he has many obscure theories. That is not conducive to free thought. I think he makes a point that it's possible. I do agree more with his theory of mushrooms forming a symbiotic relationship with man. Possibly to aid us in evolution. I like how he says this though:

The mushroom states its own position very clearly. It says, "I require the nervous system of a mammal. Do you have one handy?"


--------------------
A Good Substrate: Poo With Extras
Good Liquid Culture, Step by Step
Timer Modification
PM me if you are interested in buying 140ml syringes. $6 each + $7 shipping


Edited by MasFina (06/13/06 11:12 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineshneck
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 09/16/05
Posts: 222
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
Re: McKenna-Mushrooms as Extraterrestrials [Re: pac_man]
    #5752185 - 06/15/06 01:55 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Well, the fact that McKenna said strange things doesn't automatically mean he was wrong. Actually, long before McKenna, Aristotle, Newton, Reserford and Einstein were all saying VERY strange things. Doesn't necessarily make them wrong neither.
Spores can stay intact in interspace for centuries, as well as some bacteria, and that's no news for science.
Hydrogen is H2 and water is present all over the planet. Does this really mean H2 can't be found on the Sun, for example? Presence of tryptamines in earth plants and animals does not mean they cannot be present anywhere else, does it?
All in all, McKenna has never stated his theories were rock-proof facts of cosmic virtue - he calls them "theories"; yet, personally I find his arguments much more convincing than counter-arguments of his critics I have read anywhere including shroomery. Sometimes people critisize him without even reading his books, I bet lots of them would change their mind if they gave a read to his Food of the Gods or Invisible Landscapes.

Peace.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSpooge
The Nutter
Registered: 04/21/04
Posts: 5,189
Loc: Ice patches that last for...
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
Re: McKenna-Mushrooms as Extraterrestrials [Re: MasFina]
    #5752194 - 06/15/06 02:00 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Lot's of things are possible, but probably will never be proved of fact.

I myself am a big fan of Terrence, but admit many ideas of his are stretched. I personally believe that mushroom spores didn't originally orginate on Earth. Just a personal belief though.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblepac_man
~
Registered: 05/01/06
Posts: 200
Re: McKenna-Mushrooms as Extraterrestrials [Re: Spooge]
    #5752361 - 06/15/06 04:43 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

. bunch of fucking hippies


Edited by pac_man (06/17/06 09:48 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNgalyod
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 494
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Re: McKenna-Mushrooms as Extraterrestrials [Re: shneck]
    #5752386 - 06/15/06 05:08 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

shneck said:
McKenna has never stated his theories were rock-proof facts of cosmic virtue - he calls them "theories"; yet, personally I find his arguments much more convincing than counter-arguments of his critics I have read anywhere including shroomery.




Agreed. Adopting Terence's own methodology, what I do when I listen to Terence (or when digesting any other forms of information for that matter) is take everything in, have an open mind about any information or ideas whilst consciously stopping my mind from disallowing anything that contradicts or doesn't fit my reality tunnel, regardless of how strange or out there it may be.

And using that information I begin to construct a model. And a model isn't the truth and it isn't something permanent that I will worship as truth - it's just the best representation of what I understand at the time. And this what I loved most about Terence. His ability to build endless models and then challenge and deconstruct them, always realizing that the map is not the territory.

I don't understand how people can say, No that isn't true, or, Yes that's true. How can we truly know? Anything is possible.

Nothing is true, everything is permitted
- Hassan i Sabbah


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
Re: McKenna-Mushrooms as Extraterrestrials [Re: Ngalyod]
    #5752422 - 06/15/06 05:40 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Just from a quick google search, the temperature in space is about 2.7 K. Thats near absolute zero, or almost -273 celsius, or -459 degrees fahrenheit.

I'm not familiar with how "tough" a spore is, however if I guessed, I'd sincerely doubt a spore could get anywhere near surviving in that temp.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong. I'll pass on this theory.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNgalyod
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 494
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Re: McKenna-Mushrooms as Extraterrestrials [Re: badchad]
    #5752454 - 06/15/06 06:01 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

"Spores," says Gerda Horneck, of DLR German Aerospace Center in Köln, "can withstand a variety of different hostile conditions: heat, radiation, desiccation, chemical substances, such as alcohol, acetone and others. They have an extremely long shelf life. This is because the sensitive material, the DNA, is especially packed and protected in the spores." 

As tough as bacterial spores are, however, they cannot survive direct exposure to solar ultraviolet (UV) radiation, Horneck writes in Origins of Life and Evolution of the Biosphere, 2001. But while Arhenniuss panspermia is out, Kelvins fanciful "moss-grown fragments" may be back in, after a fashion.

Horneck assessed the protective effect of meteor-like matter in an experiment on three flights of the Russian FOTON satellite in 1994, 1997 and 1999. FOTON carried an appliance called BIOPAN. Once in space, the BIOPAN lid flips open, like the top of a waffle iron, exposing experiments inside to the cold vacuum of space, and, when BIOPAN is in the sun, to ultraviolet and other radiation with no intervening atmosphere. FOTON rotates, so BIOPAN passes in and out of the sun both during rotation and during each 90-minute orbit.

In an earlier experiment on the Long Duration Exposure Facility, flown by NASA from 1984 to 1990, Horneck found that even after six years in space, more than two-thirds of bacterial spores sprouted back on Earth. But those spores were protected by a thin aluminum cover as well as chemical protectants. Would dirt do?

Horneck and her colleagues embedded spores from the common bacterium Bacillus subtilis in a variety of materials: clay, red sandstone, grit from the meteorite Millbillillie, simulated Martian soil and sand from the Martian meteorite Zagami. Some spores were laid in layers of the dust, others mixed and stored in artificial meteorites a centimeter on a side, still others exposed directly to space or shaded by a layer of dust. They remained exposed in BIOPAN for up to two weeks.

"In the selection of the rock or soil samples, we got advice from experts working with meteorites and geologists interested in Mars research," Horneck says. "Some of the material (clay) was used in previous experiments and all others were used for the first time."

Only one in a million spores exposed to space or merely shaded survived. Hard UV directly damages DNA, causing chemical cross-linking and changes in bases, Horneck says.

But spores spared exposure to UV and other lightthat is, stored in the darkfared well, with between 50% and 97% survival, Horneck writes.

Horneck tried two methods of protecting spores with various soils and sands. In the first, she made a sort of layer cake, alternating layers of spores with layers of soil or clay, etc. In the second, she mixed spores and soils in about the ratio found in earthbound soilsa hundred million cells per gram. In both cases, the spores were in direct contact with the soil grains.

These spores survived as well as spores stored in the dark. On one flight, 100 percent of the spores exposed in such artificial meteorites survived.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Stands to reason that it's possible spores could be of an extraterrestrial origin if hitchhiking on a meteorite that crashed on Earth.

:thumbup:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblepac_man
~
Registered: 05/01/06
Posts: 200
Re: McKenna-Mushrooms as Extraterrestrials [Re: Ngalyod]
    #5752541 - 06/15/06 07:08 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

.


Edited by pac_man (06/17/06 09:48 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineZorro
Bandito
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 323
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Re: McKenna-Mushrooms as Extraterrestrials [Re: MasFina]
    #5752592 - 06/15/06 07:31 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Who knows how many psychoactive chemicals might be somewhere in space? I bet there are many alien substances that could shoot you... ehm... into space.

Just speculations.


--------------------
Zorro, Zorro, the fox so cunning and free,
Zorro, Zorro, who makes the sign of the Z.

Zorro sàz:
Consuming tropane alkaloids is like using Windows XP.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblepac_man
~
Registered: 05/01/06
Posts: 200
Re: McKenna-Mushrooms as Extraterrestrials [Re: Zorro]
    #5752886 - 06/15/06 09:31 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

.


Edited by pac_man (06/17/06 09:48 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineastraalialma
Friend
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/25/05
Posts: 175
Loc: Funland
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
Re: McKenna-Mushrooms as Extraterrestrials [Re: pac_man]
    #5752960 - 06/15/06 10:00 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I'm sure the spores have been sent to earth from a distant, long ago diminished, alien civilization.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineshneck
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 09/16/05
Posts: 222
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
Re: McKenna-Mushrooms as Extraterrestrials [Re: Ngalyod]
    #5754150 - 06/15/06 04:29 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Ngalyod said:
Agreed. Adopting Terence's own methodology, what I do when I listen to Terence (or when digesting any other forms of information for that matter) is take everything in, have an open mind about any information or ideas whilst consciously stopping my mind from disallowing anything that contradicts or doesn't fit my reality tunnel, regardless of how strange or out there it may be.
And using that information I begin to construct a model. And a model isn't the truth and it isn't something permanent that I will worship as truth - it's just the best representation of what I understand at the time. And this what I loved most about Terence. His ability to build endless models and then challenge and deconstruct them, always realizing that the map is not the territory.
I don't understand how people can say, No that isn't true, or, Yes that's true. How can we truly know? Anything is possible.
Nothing is true, everything is permitted
- Hassan i Sabbah




:thumbup:

Shrooms evolving in space is just a theory, pac_man. As for now, their earth origin seems much more likely and neither McKenna nor me  :grin: state it's definitely wrong.
I say "as for now" 'cause there is no direct proof of their extraterrestrial origin so far, just theories, indirect links like their vacuum-hardness and their overall "strangeness" and difference from other earth forms of life. As you may know, they do not belong neither to flora nor fauna nor protista or bacteria worlds. Fungi are a separate kingdom, and this kingdom is so weird that it makes you seriously suspect they are outwordly.
World's largest living organism? - "Officially known as Armillaria ostoyae, or the honey mushroom, the fungus is 3.5 miles across and takes up 1,665 football fields..."
World's oldest living organism? - "Experts estimate that the giant mushroom is at least 2,400 years old, but could be 7,200 years old..."
Genetically Closer to People (!) - "scientists have determined that fungi are more closely related to human beings and animals than to other plants."
"...mycelial mat is a remarkable type of structure composed of very thin but incredibly extensive filaments. Looking at mycelium after mycelium under the scanning electron microscope one will realize that these mycelia look strikingly similar to externalized neurological networks..."
Male, female, hermaphrodite? - "while humans and most species are divided into only two sexes, mushrooms contain over 36,000 sexes..."
"There is growing evidence to confirm that cellular networks such as mycelial structures do indeed possess a form of intelligence. A group of Japanese researchers recently demonstrated the existence of what they called "cellular intelligence." They put a slime mold into a maze and gave it two food sources. The slime mold split itself and chose the shortest distance possible, navigating throughout the maze as directly as possible to both food sources through means not understood."
"Internet is very structurally similar to a fungi mycelium. There is no point-specific central location on the Internet or in a mycelial mass where you can fatally harm the entire organism. Its decentralized organization permits it to react to disturbances in the environment in an exquisite way and to share information along its whole network very effectively. Many forms in nature and the universe seem to share this type of mycelial architecture and certain recurrent shapes, at all levels of size, from spiraling galaxies interspersed amongst the cobweb of dark matter to hurricanes and mushrooms. The mycelial structure may be a core archetypal pattern in our universe."
When did they evolve? - "Based on the available fossil record, fungi are presumed to have been present at least in Late Proterozoic (900-570 mya)"
"The Fungi are a monophyletic group, meaning all varieties of fungi come from one common ancestor."

This list of weird things about shrooms can take as many pages as the lemon juice thread, so I'd better finish with the quote regarding shrooms durability in near absolute zero temps:
"Studies conducted by astrophysicists at the University of Leiden in Netherlands have determined that certain mushroom spores could survive up to 45 million years in interstellar transit. (see Nature - Aug 1, 1985)"

After about 200 years of scientific mycology we probably know 6-7% of all types of fungi at best. New species are found in dozens daily. So, IMO it is not wise at all to deny a theory however strange and outrageous it may sound having so little knowledge about the subject in the first place.
Life spores transported to the planet is one of the major theories on the origin of life on Earth, along with Random, natural unguided forces or processes, design and creation by a "designer" and self generation or ability to create, inherent or designed into matter.
Shroom spores are as good candidates as any other.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineIamthewalrus
every evening Idied and everynight I wasreborn
Male User Gallery

Registered: 03/24/04
Posts: 3,744
Loc: Ontario
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
Re: McKenna-Mushrooms as Extraterrestrials [Re: shneck]
    #5754227 - 06/15/06 04:50 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I was under the impression that cubensis spores could not survive freezing temps(otherwise they would probably be native here since they seem to like the conditions and theres lots of cows and horses) I"ve had mycelium sit out in the sun for a few days dry completely out and after dunking in water threw em in the ground with a lil peat overtop and had mushies in no time...I dunno maybe theres factors I'm not taking into account(probably)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNgalyod
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 494
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Re: McKenna-Mushrooms as Extraterrestrials [Re: Iamthewalrus]
    #5755191 - 06/15/06 08:45 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

As mentioned in the exert from the article I posted only one in a million exposed or shaded spores had the possibility of surviving.

But spores protected by artificial meteorites (constructed of various soils, clays, sands or rock) had survival rate of 100 percent.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1

Shop: Original Sensible Seeds Feminized Cannabis Seeds   Mushroom-Hut Mono Tub Substrate   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Mushrooms - Interplanetary species?
( 1 2 all )
DreaMaTrix 21,971 30 02/16/20 07:51 PM
by Backbone
* **Dennis McKenna @ The Shroomery!!**
( 1 2 3 all )
DreaMaTrix 9,865 55 10/24/02 05:51 PM
by Anno
* McKenna's "Heroic Dose"
( 1 2 3 4 all )
silversoul7 21,400 60 04/08/18 11:42 PM
by defleron
* The Mckenna 'Heroic Dose (5g dried') - your experiences
( 1 2 3 4 all )
CaptBeefheart 32,813 74 03/19/21 11:26 AM
by Mindful Mushi
* Mushroom Books syntheticTHC 1,901 5 06/18/03 04:57 PM
by aeonblue
* Dennis McKenna live chat ***DATE and TIME***
( 1 2 3 all )
DreaMaTrix 9,300 49 10/28/02 09:45 AM
by T0aD
* McKenna's New Way To Say Hoooray? shroomsbury 1,508 14 02/02/03 07:29 AM
by Cryptic
* Mudvayne speach mckenna?
( 1 2 all )
slab 6,313 33 02/12/03 03:37 AM
by Psilocybeingzz

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: psilocybinjunkie, Rose, mushboy, LogicaL Chaos, Northerner, bodhisatta
1,807 topic views. 3 members, 43 guests and 23 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.027 seconds spending 0.008 seconds on 14 queries.