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OfflineEllis Dee
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New US Nuclear Plan. 7 Countries Named Targets.
    #574488 - 03/09/02 09:10 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Story from the LA Times.

March 9, 2002
U.S. Works Up Plan for Using Nuclear Arms
Military: Administration, in a secret report, calls for a strategy against at least seven nations: China, Russia, Iraq, Iran, North Korea, Libya and Syria.

By PAUL RICHTER, Times Staff Writer

WASHINGTON -- The Bush administration has directed the military to prepare contingency plans to use nuclear weapons against at least seven countries and to build smaller nuclear weapons for use in certain battlefield situations, according to a classified Pentagon report obtained by the Los Angeles Times.

The secret report, which was provided to Congress on Jan. 8, says the Pentagon needs to be prepared to use nuclear weapons against China, Russia, Iraq, North Korea, Iran, Libya and Syria. It says the weapons could be used in three types of situations: against targets able to withstand nonnuclear attack; in retaliation for attack with nuclear, biological or chemical weapons; or "in the event of surprising military developments."

A partial copy of the report was obtained by defense analyst and Times contributor William Arkin. His column on the contents appears in Sunday's editions.

Officials have long acknowledged that they had detailed nuclear plans for an attack on Russia. However, this "Nuclear Posture Review" apparently marks the first time that an official list of potential target countries has come to light, analysts said. Some predicted the disclosure would set off strong reactions from governments of the target countries.

"This is dynamite," said Joseph Cirincione, a nuclear arms expert at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace in Washington. "I can imagine what these countries are going to be saying at the U.N." Arms control advocates said the report's directives on development of smaller nuclear weapons could signal that the Bush administration is more willing to overlook a long-standing taboo against the use of nuclear weapons except as a last resort. They warned that such moves could dangerously destabilize the world by encouraging other countries to believe that they, too, should develop weapons.

"They're trying desperately to find new uses for nuclear weapons, when their uses should be limited to deterrence," said John Isaacs, president of the Council for a Livable World. "This is very, very dangerous talk . . . Dr. Strangelove is clearly still alive in the Pentagon."

But some conservative analysts insisted that the Pentagon must prepare for all possible contingencies, especially now, when dozens of countries, and some terrorist groups, are engaged in secret weapon development programs.

They argued that smaller weapons have an important deterrent role because many aggressors might not believe that the U.S. forces would use multi-kiloton weapons that would wreak devastation on surrounding territory and friendly populations.

"We need to have a credible deterrence against regimes involved in international terrorism and development of weapons of mass destruction," said Jack Spencer, a defense analyst at the conservative Heritage Foundation in Washington. He said the contents of the report did not surprise him and represent "the right way to develop a nuclear posture for a post-Cold War world."

A spokesman for the Pentagon, Richard McGraw, declined to comment because the document is classified.

Congress requested the reassessment of the U.S. nuclear posture in September 2000. The last such review was conducted in 1994 by the Clinton administration. The new report, signed by Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld, is now being used by the U.S. Strategic Command to prepare a nuclear war plan.

Bush administration officials have publicly provided only sketchy details of the nuclear review. They have publicly emphasized the parts of the policy suggesting that the administration wants to reduce reliance on nuclear weapons.

Since the Clinton administration's review is also classified, no specific contrast can be drawn. However, analysts portrayed this report as representing a break with earlier policy.

U.S. policymakers have generally indicated that the United States would not use nuclear weapons against nonnuclear states unless they were allied with nuclear powers. They have left some ambiguity about whether the United States would use nuclear weapons in retaliation after strikes with chemical or nuclear weapons.

The report says the Pentagon should be prepared to use nuclear weapons in an Arab-Israeli conflict, in a war between China and Taiwan, or in an attack from North Korea on the south. They might also become necessary in an attack by Iraq on Israel or another neighbor, it said.

The report says Russia is no longer officially an "enemy." Yet it acknowledges that the huge Russian arsenal, which includes about 6,000 deployed warheads and perhaps 10,000 smaller "theater" nuclear weapons, remains of concern.

Pentagon officials have said publicly that they were studying the need to develop theater nuclear weapons, designed for use against specific targets on a battlefield, but had not committed themselves to that course.

Officials have often spoken of the advantages of using nuclear weapons to destroy the deep tunnel and cave complexes that many regimes have been building, especially since the Persian Gulf War of 1991. Nuclear weapons give off powerful shock waves that can crush structures deep in the Earth, they point out.

Officials argue that large nuclear arms have so many destructive side effects, from blast to heat and radiation, that they become "self-deterring." They contend the Pentagon needs "full spectrum deterrence"--that is, a full range of weapons that potential enemies believe might be used against them.

The Pentagon was actively involved in planning for use of tactical nuclear weapons as recently as the 1970s. But it has moved away from them in the last two decades.

Analysts said the report's reference to "surprising military developments" referred to the Pentagon's fears that a rogue regime or terrorist group might suddenly unleash a wholly unknown weapon that was difficult to counter with the conventional U.S. arsenal.

The administration has proposed cutting the offensive nuclear arsenal by about two-thirds, to between 1,700 and 2,200 missiles, within 10 years. Officials have also said they want to use precision guided conventional munitions in some missions that might have previously been accomplished with nuclear arms.

But critics said the report contradicts suggestions the Bush administration wants to cut the nuclear role.

"This clearly makes nuclear weapons a tool for fighting a war, rather than deterring them," said Cirincione.


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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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InvisiblePGF
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Re: New US Nuclear Plan. 7 Countries Named Targets. [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #574554 - 03/09/02 10:44 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Republicans seem to really enjoy a good cold war.

I think a bunch of yahoos like the Bush's actually want to use
the weapons. But the profit is in the build-up, not the use.

China is coming along nicely as a replacement for the former USSR.


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***The Real Shroomery nigger


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OfflineJammer
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Re: New US Nuclear Plan. 7 Countries Named Targets. [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #574565 - 03/09/02 11:00 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I started to post about this yesterday. But I figured that I have been playing the role of "reporter" too much here recently... ' glad to see the subject come up.

What can one say? It's plain scary. I have never seen international public policy make such an abrupt 180 (degree) change in my life. Basicly, I think that this is VERY DANGERIOUS talk to be "leaking" out to the world. I'm very concerned that the Bush W. Adminastration might be planing on trying to conqure the world. This really has me concerned.


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>>Jammer>>


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InvisiblePGF
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Re: New US Nuclear Plan. 7 Countries Named Targets. [Re: Jammer]
    #574574 - 03/09/02 11:10 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah what giveswith him lumping N. Korea into his little axis of evil?

It's like he is provoking the bastards. H e is a scary president.


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: New US Nuclear Plan. 7 Countries Named Targets. [Re: PGF]
    #574595 - 03/09/02 11:42 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

No one wants a nuclear war. Nuclear war is bad, very very bad... But this report isn't anything that the countries involved didn't already know. This is not anything new really, to the countries named, they do have inteligence agencies and their own contingency plans...

In reply to:

Yeah what giveswith him lumping N. Korea into his little axis of evil?



North Korea sells nuclear weapons technology and fissionable material to all of our enemies and we are still technically at war with them. We are their enemy and they want us to die. They provide nuclear assistance to Iraq, Iran, India, Pakistan, and evcery other country that wants nuclear weapons without even a hint off concern that the countries they're arming with nukes are unstable or led by psychopathic extremists that want to nuke Israel. N. Korea is right to be labeled as a terrorist supporting state and part of the axis of evil.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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InvisibleGabbaDj
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Re: New US Nuclear Plan. 7 Countries Named Targets. [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #574619 - 03/10/02 12:12 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

You got to like Bushs Arms Reduction Plan... We made an agreement with several countries to reduce our stock of misiles. In the agreement these misiles were to be destroyed but the Bush Administration simple disarmed them and whearhoused the heads, only actualy destroying 15% of the total they were suposed to...

Then Russia found out and they got pissed. They called Bush on it and he just said that after Sept 11th we hav more of a need for our misiles than other countries in the agreement and we cannot just destroy them..
Bush has been pissing on Russia since he got into office, Most recently with the steel tarrifs and America being a huge importer of Russian made steel Russia countered with a tarrif on All Poultry imports from the U.S. Thats 50% of our entire poultry export market worth billions.
The Russians are threatening to shut off all trade agreements with the U.S. if we dont lift the tarrifs on steel.
Then theirs Russias protest about our plans to bomb countries that had nothing to do with the Sept 11th attacks and they criticize Bushes plan to fight a world wide war on terrorism. Really they dont like the Idea of us attacking anyone.
Add to all that the Olympic scandals and all the other crap the Bush Administration has done we are really starting to piss them off, I sure hope Bush dont push too hard because Russia just might be able to kick our ass if worse comes to worse...


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: New US Nuclear Plan. 7 Countries Named Targets. [Re: GabbaDj]
    #574633 - 03/10/02 12:33 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

In reply to:

Bush has been pissing on Russia since he got into office, Most recently with the steel tarrifs and America being a huge importer of Russian made steel Russia countered with a tarrif on All Poultry imports from the U.S. Thats 50% of our entire poultry export market worth billions.



The Russians put the tariff on our poulty exports prior to the tariff we imposed in their steel exports. You have that backwards. If anything the steel tariff on russian steel was in retaliation for the poultry tariff they imposed. But really, the steel tariff was due to domestic pressure from unions. Bush has been courting the unions since he took office, first with the ban on mexican trucks on american roads, and now with the steel tariffs. Bush also recognizes the national security interests in having our own domestic sources for steel not completely go belly up.


In reply to:

Then theirs Russias protest about our plans to bomb countries that had nothing to do with the Sept 11th attacks and they criticize Bushes plan to fight a world wide war on terrorism. Really they dont like the Idea of us attacking anyone.



Russia is fighting their own war with the muslims in Chechnia. They are sympathetic to our war on terrorism and they gave us minor strategic support in Afghanistan for our staging areas and arming the northern alliance to help kill the taliban. Russia can jump off a bridge if they don't like us bombing our enemies because they have nothing to do with it...


In reply to:

Add to all that the Olympic scandals and all the other crap the Bush Administration has done we are really starting to piss them off, I sure hope Bush dont push too hard because Russia just might be able to kick our ass if worse comes to worse...



The Russians don't want a nuclear war with the US any more than we want one with them. No one wants for their country to get blown up. Nuclear war is baaaad. They know it and we know it. I highly doubt they would launch a nuclear attack on us because they know the consequences of such an action is a full nuclear retaliatory strike, just as well as we know it if we attack them...


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineSyngenor
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Re: New US Nuclear Plan. 7 Countries Named Targets. [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #574634 - 03/10/02 12:34 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)


No one wants a nuclear war. Nuclear war is bad, very very bad


These folks seem to want a nuclear war badly, very very badly:

George Dubya Bush (Adolf Hitler)
Dick Cheney (Heinrich Himmler)
John Ashwipe (Ernst Kaltenbrunner)
Donald Rumsfeld (Hermann G?ring)
Colin Powell (Joachim von Ribbentrop)
Tom Ridge (Adolf Eichmann)
Condoleeza Rice (Joseph Goebbels)

They believe it could be won. So do i. But it cant be done without at least one major nuclear attack on the US homeland (especially since their willing to take on Russia for the Caspian oil fields). The plutocracy buys the world for $48 billion and 48 million American lives.


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: New US Nuclear Plan. 7 Countries Named Targets. [Re: Syngenor]
    #574637 - 03/10/02 12:40 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

In reply to:

These folks seem to want a nuclear war badly, very very badly:

George Dubya Bush (Adolf Hitler)
Dick Cheney (Heinrich Himmler)
John Ashwipe (Ernst Kaltenbrunner)
Donald Rumsfeld (Hermann G?ring)
Colin Powell (Joachim von Ribbentrop)
Tom Ridge (Adolf Eichmann)
Condoleeza Rice (Joseph Goebbels)



Wait for the trip to wear off before posting next time...


In reply to:

They believe it could be won. So do i.



There are no winners with nuclear war. Too many people die. If we kill 80 million of them and they kill 65 million of us does that mean we win? No, it means we both lose. No sane person wants a nuclear war. There is nuclear fallout, and if it was an extensive nuclear war a nuclear winter would set in and then everyone would die, wild animals would die, and the whole food chain would be messed up. With nuclear war there are no winners. Just millions of victims and surviving losers with stage 4 cancer...

Wait until the trip wears off to post next time...


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineSyngenor
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Re: New US Nuclear Plan. 7 Countries Named Targets. [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #574693 - 03/10/02 02:23 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

The plutocracy wins the nuclear war if as a result they achieve their goal of global corporate hegemony without ruining the environment in the process. In the scenario you described, they prolly would win. One way they could lose is if they antagonize the Russians into launching a massive preemptive strike against the US, which prolly would lead to ecological collapse.

US military planning has proven very adept at crippling what should have been a competent enemy very early on. That gives the Russians a reason to shoot first, if shrub really is that stupid.

No sane person wants a nuclear war; but this is Dubya were dealing with.



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Re: New US Nuclear Plan. 7 Countries Named Targets. [Re: Syngenor]
    #574727 - 03/10/02 03:51 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Personally, I think they should use tactical nukes to kill whales!


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Instead of the dove as the symbol of peace we should have a pillow. Its got more feathers but doesnt have that nasty sharp beak......


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Re: New US Nuclear Plan. 7 Countries Named Targets. [Re: Syngenor]
    #574746 - 03/10/02 04:29 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

All these particular situations aside, it's just a matter of time. That's what I think...just a matter of time before someone initiates a major nuclear assault. And the way we can't seem to get it toghether at the present moment, I think it MAY be sooner than later.

People don't seem to get it. Were talking about a button that could end all life on earth! The very fact that we've invented such a thing speaks volumes of our insanity as a species.

I was in grade school in the eighties. I remember living under the threat of nuclear holocost. Any one remember the movie "the day after"? Everytime ronald raygun's face would show up on TV, I would wonder if he was going to announce that he's pushed the button. We all have 15 minutes left to live...

Anyways, this nuclear situation is most depresing, I hope we can get to a place someday where we'll laugh over this sort of stuff.





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  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

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Re: New US Nuclear Plan. 7 Countries Named Targets. [Re: carbonhoots]
    #574771 - 03/10/02 05:36 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Thank God that the treath of global nuclear holocaust seems to be coming
back again. Personaly I think we are fucked, especially with an American
president where you can add together the size of both his shoes and get his IQ*.

* (I don`t know about the American shoe size system, but here in Europe
the average shoe size is between 40 and 30, wich is what I was referring to)


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Things can only get better from now on!


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Re: New US Nuclear Plan. 7 Countries Named Targets. [Re: BlueShroom]
    #574773 - 03/10/02 05:44 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

You gotta love how they call it a 'SECRET' report tho. Yeah. 'SHHHHH!! I told you but you can't say nothing.'

Peace
Buzz


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Is the glass half-full or half-empty? I say it is both.


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Re: New US Nuclear Plan. 7 Countries Named Targets. [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #574874 - 03/10/02 10:29 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

>The Russians put the tariff on our poulty exports prior to the tariff we imposed in their steel exports. You have that backwards.<

The tarrif on poultry to Russia was in the works for a little while but so was the tarrifs on steel. We knew of their plans and they knew of ours.. The thing that makes me believe its a retaliation thing is that inspection reports on the suposed US wrongdoings had never been revealed untill Bush set forth his plan. Russia cannot put a tarrif on our poultry without scientific proof like the inspections reports as it was writen in the trade agreement.

http://latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-000017049mar07.story
http://latimes.com/news/nationworld/politics/wire/sns-ap-us-russia-poultry0308mar08.story

>A ban on imports of U.S. poultry that was to start Sunday was in effect imposed immediately when Russian customs authorities announced that they would clear no more shipments. Import licenses have been suspended, and the Russian Veterinary Services weighed in with a claim to have discovered salmonella contamination in nine U.S. poultry consignments inspected in St. Petersburg.

Moscow is the U.S. poultry industry's most important customer, spending more than $600 million annually to buy half of all U.S. exports.

Russian Prime Minister Mikhail M. Kasyanov denied that the poultry ban was a quid pro quo for the U.S. steel tariffs, and Health Minister Yuri L. Shevchenko blamed the move on "dissatisfaction" with the quality of U.S. chicken products.

Economics Minister German O. Gref warned that Russia might pull out of all trade agreements with the United States unless the steel tariffs are rescinded or reduced.<


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Edited by GabbaDj (03/10/02 10:33 AM)


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InvisibleGabbaDj
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Re: New US Nuclear Plan. 7 Countries Named Targets. [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #574879 - 03/10/02 10:43 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

>Russia is fighting their own war with the muslims in Chechnia. They are sympathetic to our war on terrorism and they gave us minor strategic support in Afghanistan for our staging areas and arming the northern alliance to help kill the taliban.<

Russia has been outwardly vocal about their distaste in our war on terrorism spreading into other middle eastern countries. Mostly about Iran, Russia has been and is in the process of negotiations and political peace keaping with many of the countries we want to bomb and Putin himself has been quoted as saying "Bush is trying to take care of old business under the guise of War on Terrorism" and he called our attempts at a more political, non voilent solution weak at best and criticized our bombing as being a US solution all problems we cant handle.
Of corse they helped us fight the Taliban in Afghanistan, they fought them once and were beaten. Theyre just trying to get some payback.
And no one wants a nuclear war, no one really believes that will ever hapen. I was just saying that if it ever did I think Russia might be able to kick our ass.


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Re: New US Nuclear Plan. 7 Countries Named Targets. [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #574975 - 03/10/02 01:59 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

the making of nuclear weapons are theoretical black holes of tax payer dollars

"WASHINGTON -- The Bush administration has directed the military to prepare contingency plans to use nuclear weapons against at least seven countries"

like that is some sort of news?

like the submarines can't target anything on the fly?
and like the majority of the submarines don't surround asia?
24 missiles x 8 war heads each
the environmental effects from just one salvo would put us back into a manmade ice age
the only way they will be used is if our military gets hit
the only countries that can hit the US would never dare- they are not the 'rogue states'
the pentagon also said that they are not bridled in the use of their arsenal in the case of chemical or biological weapons either, which means chemical or biological attacks will be countered with chemical, biological or hydronuclear weapons

regardless there is only one purpose for our nuke submarines, insurance to guard against people dancing in our ashes

remember that storys like these are leaked to the press for a reason.


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OfflineJammer
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Re: New US Nuclear Plan. 7 Countries Named Targets. [Re: Lallafa]
    #577469 - 03/13/02 01:06 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

news stories are "leaked" for a market sample. (nuttin but good ole fashion business practices here)...

hehe...


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