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InvisibleDiploidM
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Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me
    #5738103 - 06/11/06 02:05 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

The Nine Satanic Sins:

1. Stupidity—The top of the list for Satanic Sins. The Cardinal Sin of Satanism. It’s too bad that stupidity isn’t painful. Ignorance is one thing, but our society thrives increasingly on stupidity. It depends on people going along with whatever they are told. The media promotes a cultivated stupidity as a posture that is not only acceptable but laudable. Satanists must learn to see through the tricks and cannot afford to be stupid.

2. Pretentiousness—Empty posturing can be most irritating and isn’t applying the cardinal rules of Lesser Magic. On equal footing with stupidity for what keeps the money in circulation these days. Everyone’s made to feel like a big shot, whether they can come up with the goods or not.

3. Solipsism—Can be very dangerous for Satanists. Projecting your reactions, responses and sensibilities onto someone who is probably far less attuned than you are. It is the mistake of expecting people to give you the same consideration, courtesy and respect that you naturally give them. They won’t. Instead, Satanists must strive to apply the dictum of “Do unto others as they do unto you.” It’s work for most of us and requires constant vigilance lest you slip into a comfortable illusion of everyone being like you. As has been said, certain utopias would be ideal in a nation of philosophers, but unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately, from a Machiavellian standpoint) we are far from that point.

4. Self-deceit—It’s in the “Nine Satanic Statements” but deserves to be repeated here. Another cardinal sin. We must not pay homage to any of the sacred cows presented to us, including the roles we are expected to play ourselves. The only time self-deceit should be entered into is when it’s fun, and with awareness. But then, it’s not self-deceit!

5. Herd Conformity—That’s obvious from a Satanic stance. It’s all right to conform to a person’s wishes, if it ultimately benefits you. But only fools follow along with the herd, letting an impersonal entity dictate to you. The key is to choose a master wisely instead of being enslaved by the whims of the many.

6. Lack of Perspective—Again, this one can lead to a lot of pain for a Satanist. You must never lose sight of who and what you are, and what a threat you can be, by your very existence. We are making history right now, every day. Always keep the wider historical and social picture in mind. That is an important key to both Lesser and Greater Magic. See the patterns and fit things together as you want the pieces to fall into place. Do not be swayed by herd constraints—know that you are working on another level entirely from the rest of the world.

7. Forgetfulness of Past Orthodoxies—Be aware that this is one of the keys to brainwashing people into accepting something new and different, when in reality it’s something that was once widely accepted but is now presented in a new package. We are expected to rave about the genius of the creator and forget the original. This makes for a disposable society.

8. Counterproductive Pride—That first word is important. Pride is great up to the point you begin to throw out the baby with the bathwater. The rule of Satanism is: if it works for you, great. When it stops working for you, when you’ve painted yourself into a corner and the only way out is to say, I’m sorry, I made a mistake, I wish we could compromise somehow, then do it.

9. Lack of Aesthetics—This is the physical application of the Balance Factor. Aesthetics is important in Lesser Magic and should be cultivated. It is obvious that no one can collect any money off classical standards of beauty and form most of the time so they are discouraged in a consumer society, but an eye for beauty, for balance, is an essential Satanic tool and must be applied for greatest magical effectiveness. It’s not what’s supposed to be pleasing—it’s what is. Aesthetics is a personal thing, reflective of one’s own nature, but there are universally pleasing and harmonious configurations that should not be denied.

--

And The Nine Satanic Statements:

1. Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence!

2. Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!

3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit!

4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates!

5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!

6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires!

7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his “divine spiritual and intellectual development,” has become the most vicious animal of all!

8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!

9. Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years!

--

And The Eleven Satanic Rules

1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.

2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.

3. When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.

4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.

5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.

6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.

7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.

8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.

9. Do not harm little children.

10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.

11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.

--

More here:

http://www.churchofsatan.com/home.html


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Diploid]
    #5738110 - 06/11/06 02:07 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

LaVeyan Satanism is just Objectivism with costumes.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Silversoul]
    #5738129 - 06/11/06 02:13 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Still, Satanic principles make (no pun, lol) a hell of a lot more sense than idiotic and humanly-impossible commandments like "Don't get a chubby when you think of your neighbor's hot wife."


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Diploid]
    #5738134 - 06/11/06 02:15 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Still, Satanic principles make (no pun, lol) a hell of a lot more sense than idiotic and humanly-impossible commandments like "Don't get a chubby when you think of your neighbor's hot wife."



If by "make a hell of a lot more sense" you mean "easier to follow," then yes. But some of us strive for perfection.


--------------------

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Silversoul]
    #5738148 - 06/11/06 02:22 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

My 2 cents on perfectionism:

Striving for perfection is an excellent way to cultivate neurosis and misery, and to alienate your friends and associates.

Striving to do your best, be honest about your limitations, and accept your humanity, is much more conducive to mental health and strong relationships with others.


My 2 cents on Satanism:

I don't worship any supernatural beings, whether they live in the sky or underground. :wink:

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Invisiblespud
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Veritas]
    #5738190 - 06/11/06 02:34 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:


My 2 cents on Satanism:

I don't worship any supernatural beings, whether they live in the sky or underground. :wink:




You are a victim of the Christian smear campaign. Many non-Satanists, especially Christians, infer that Satanists worship a supernatural, evil entity called "Satan" and advocate evil. The Church of Satan (the most organized Satanic group on earth) has stated several times that they do not believe in some being named "Satan", and use his name purely symbolically in relation to human values they deem as wrong.

Satanism is more of a philosophical movement than anything. Do not confuse theistic Satanism to LaVeyans Satanism, the much more common form of Satanism.

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Offlinecapliberty
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Veritas]
    #5738218 - 06/11/06 02:42 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

These are good principles, but this attitude our developed consiousness doesn't authenicate anything, of course this religion has to make their precepts sound powerful and alluring. Its a bunch of new aged people using old religious referance to fill a nitche in society that rebel against orgainized religion. Even they know this and feel they have room to play with it.

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Diploid]
    #5738244 - 06/11/06 02:48 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Satanism also includes a lot more than just this

As church had inquisition, so does modern satanism have grave robbing. Maybe it's not official satanistic point of view, but over here there have been cases of babies stolen from graves for rituals by members of satanic sects.

Now someone is going to say it's an urban myth, but it's not, people ended up in jail for such things, though our law has some holes in this, which equate stealing bodies with painting grafitti on graves, so you can't get more than a year or two.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

Edited by OldWoodSpecter (06/11/06 02:51 PM)

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5738295 - 06/11/06 03:02 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

My main beef with Satanism is the same as my beef with Objectivism: namely, that it glorifies selfishness and the ego. This is sometimes referred to as the left-hand path, where the individual acts as their own personal god, seeking self-indulgence and self-glorification. The right-hand path, on the other hand, values altruism and humility. I've walked the right-hand path long before I became a Christian, and still consider it to be the more spiritually mature path.


--------------------

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Invisiblespud
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Silversoul]
    #5738304 - 06/11/06 03:04 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Have you read Siddhartha by Hermann Hesse? Using just over 100 pages, it brilliantly illustrates the contrast of the right handed path vs left handed path. Great read.

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: spud]
    #5738315 - 06/11/06 03:09 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

These principles of satanism aren't anything special really, it's how 90% of people live and think anyway, exept that they are afraid of the word satanism.

The question is, where does this left hand path lead? Every path leads to somewhere. I think this one really goes in circles.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Invisiblespud
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Registered: 10/07/02
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5738318 - 06/11/06 03:11 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

People tend to look for a worldview in which to assimilate their beliefs. We are social beings.

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: spud]
    #5738322 - 06/11/06 03:11 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Siddhartha by Hermann Hesse

For those with short attention spans:

http://www.netflix.com/MovieDisplay?movieid=60026644&trkid=191776


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: spud]
    #5738387 - 06/11/06 03:34 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

spud said:
People tend to look for a worldview in which to assimilate their beliefs. We are social beings.




And beliefs come from needs mostly. People want a can of beer, to get layed on a regular basis and some money to buy more plastic and gold, in their life, so they chose satanism because satanism was designed around human lusts.

If there is no god, or anything other than what you learn on the biology class, then satanism IS the way to go. It's the most natural way of life with that kind of premise.
But if there is god..


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Diploid]
    #5738394 - 06/11/06 03:36 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Adopting dogma you like rather than dogma you dislike... Bravo!

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Offlinecapliberty
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5738396 - 06/11/06 03:37 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

this also represents the paradox of good and evil, sometimes evil has is its valid stance in which is overall good.

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Invisiblespud
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Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 44,410
Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5738405 - 06/11/06 03:39 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:

If there is no god, or anything other than what you learn on the biology class, then satanism IS the way to go. It's the most natural way of life with that kind of premise.
But if there is god..




Not true, several non-Theistic models of living and morality have been offered which maximize happiness in a better fashion and create a more efficient society. One such model is Kant's Categorical Imperative.

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5738409 - 06/11/06 03:39 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
If there is no god, or anything other than what you learn on the biology class, then satanism IS the way to go. It's the most natural way of life with that kind of premise.
But if there is god..



I don't think you necessarily need to assume a God to think that humility, generosity, and moderation are good things. Several secular humanists have advocated similar models.


--------------------

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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5738424 - 06/11/06 03:44 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
If there is no god, or anything other than what you learn on the biology class, then satanism IS the way to go. It's the most natural way of life with that kind of premise.




Laveyian Satanism is based on unverifiable and subjective valuations that are then converted into dogma. I don't see anything 'natural' about it.

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Silversoul]
    #5738425 - 06/11/06 03:45 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
If there is no god, or anything other than what you learn on the biology class, then satanism IS the way to go. It's the most natural way of life with that kind of premise.
But if there is god..



I don't think you necessarily need to assume a God to think that humility, generosity, and moderation are good things. Several secular humanists have advocated similar models.




yes I know, but there is no objective good and bad without that kind of concept of spirituality.

Wheather I develop a cure for cancer or be a mass rapist is objectivley equally good (or bad) in such a world.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Offlinecapliberty
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Silversoul]
    #5738426 - 06/11/06 03:45 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Yeah those models aren't designed around human lust and self serving pleasure such as satanism

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5738429 - 06/11/06 03:45 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Adopting dogma you like rather than dogma you dislike... Bravo!

Not adopting, simply stating to invite debate.

Maybe I should add that to my sig?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: capliberty]
    #5738436 - 06/11/06 03:49 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

capliberty said:
Yeah those models aren't designed around human lust and self serving pleasure such as satanism




Yes they are not. But the question is why not?

These humanists, are romantics who are afraid of the implications of the such ideas of spirituality, yet don't have the guts to look their fellow animal in the face and see their nature.
It's like living between two worlds.

Why on earth should chimps care about a stranger instead of take all the bannanas from him?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Posts: 4,587
Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Diploid]
    #5738445 - 06/11/06 03:51 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Why does it make any more sense?

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5738455 - 06/11/06 03:54 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Why does it make any more sense?

Well, take the 10 commandments, for example. Several of them tell us to go against human nature whereas from what I've read so far, LaVeyan Satanism tells us to acknowledge human nature.

The latter makes comparatively more sense to me.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5738456 - 06/11/06 03:55 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Why on earth should chimps care about a stranger instead of take all the bannanas from him?




Inclusive fitness, altruism, etc.

Edited by MushmanTheManic (06/11/06 03:55 PM)

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5738470 - 06/11/06 03:59 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Although I do not argue against altruism, it is selfishness that has evolved us above all other creatures on Earth, not altruism.

That said, human altruism is too new to know to what heights (or depths) it may eventually take us.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Loc: mountains and lakes
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5738494 - 06/11/06 04:05 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:
Quote:

Why on earth should chimps care about a stranger instead of take all the bannanas from him?




Inclusive fitness, altruism, etc.




and what's the purpuse of altruism?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Diploid]
    #5738499 - 06/11/06 04:06 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Whether you prefer "human nature" to be adhered to or view it as something to be detach from (or overcome) seems entirely subjective. I don't see how the first or the latter makes any more sense, objectively.

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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5738505 - 06/11/06 04:06 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

The purpose of altruism is survival.
(To clear things up: by "altruism" I mean "reciprocal altruism".)

Edited by MushmanTheManic (06/11/06 04:09 PM)

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5738528 - 06/11/06 04:11 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Whether you prefer "human nature" to be adhered to or view it as something to be detach from (or overcome) seems entirely subjective. I don't see how the first or the latter makes any more sense, objectively.

I see no benefit whatever in a path that makes me strive to be something I am not or to deny something that I am.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5738623 - 06/11/06 04:35 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:
The purpose of altruism is survival.
(To clear things up: by "altruism" I mean "reciprocal altruism".)




So you have two chimps, one weak and sick, other strong and large. Both are hungry

Reciprocal altruism makes them both share some food. Both survive.
The weak one too, and give birth to some more weak chimps.

Then lions come and kill half of the chimp population who are children of the weak chimp

On the other hand you have extreme individualism.
The strong chimp stole all of the food the weak one had, and ate it all. The weak one died. The strong one had many children, and the
chimps escaped the confrontation with the lion alive

Again, how did altruism help survival of the chimps?

The only thing that really helps survival of the species is internal natural selection, confrontations, wars, and conflicts.

If the stupid humans don't die of hunger before they multiply (due to altruism of the leading ones), then how will humanity get rid of their stupid genes?


That's why humanism and altruism are self-cripling worldviews in an atheistic world.

But then, I believe in god, so I don't believe in survival


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Invisiblespud
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5738650 - 06/11/06 04:42 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Extreme individualism leads to several absurdities. For example, it would be logical to kill an innocent, healthy being if 2 sickly people needed his organs in order to survive.

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: spud]
    #5738651 - 06/11/06 04:43 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

spud said:
Quote:

Veritas said:


My 2 cents on Satanism:

I don't worship any supernatural beings, whether they live in the sky or underground. :wink:




You are a victim of the Christian smear campaign. Many non-Satanists, especially Christians, infer that Satanists worship a supernatural, evil entity called "Satan" and advocate evil. The Church of Satan (the most organized Satanic group on earth) has stated several times that they do not believe in some being named "Satan", and use his name purely symbolically in relation to human values they deem as wrong.

Satanism is more of a philosophical movement than anything. Do not confuse theistic Satanism to LaVeyans Satanism, the much more common form of Satanism.




Yes, I know.  Thus the :wink:.

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Silversoul]
    #5738654 - 06/11/06 04:43 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
My main beef with Satanism is the same as my beef with Objectivism:  namely, that it glorifies selfishness and the ego.  This is sometimes referred to as the left-hand path, where the individual acts as their own personal god, seeking self-indulgence and self-glorification.  The right-hand path, on the other hand, values altruism and humility.  I've walked the right-hand path long before I became a Christian, and still consider it to be the more spiritually mature path.




I really don't and never have seen WTF you are talking about. I think you have it backwards and can't see it. :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: spud]
    #5738656 - 06/11/06 04:44 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

spud said:
Extreme individualism leads to several absurdities. For example, it would be logical to kill an innocent, healthy being if 2 sickly people needed his organs in order to survive.




If he is weak or stupid enough to alow that to happen, then they deserve to survive more than him.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Diploid]
    #5738828 - 06/11/06 05:29 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Out of curiosity, who participating in this thread read the post on the Lucifer rebellion in MR&P. I believe it was taken from the book called The Keys of Enoch(not sure).  Anyway, it covers Luciferian ideology and what he is rebelling against, anything done out of an idea of a supreme creator and ideologies ascribed to it that no one can prove. 

If you didn't read it, you may want too. It's an interesting perspective. In many cases, like with this, the lines blur and yet the question always is, who's side are you on?

Take note of one thing if you read that article. Micheal always concedes to, respect and honor the Free will of others. I'd like to discuss that one here some time. That's a tough one understand, though some times I do.

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Diploid]
    #5738844 - 06/11/06 05:35 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

My complaint with Satanism is that instead of Jesus you got Satan....you got to follow somebody. Away with these empty gurus. "Organized religion" is an oxymoron. Be your own Jesus...be your own Satan...be your own God ruler and master.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5738851 - 06/11/06 05:36 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

spud said:
Extreme individualism leads to several absurdities. For example, it would be logical to kill an innocent, healthy being if 2 sickly people needed his organs in order to survive.




If he is weak or stupid enough to alow that to happen, then they deserve to survive more than him.




Hah, I hope you are joking.

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Icelander]
    #5738857 - 06/11/06 05:39 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I really don't and never have seen WTF you are talking about. I think you have it backwards and can't see it. :wink:



huh? :what:


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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5738865 - 06/11/06 05:42 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
My complaint with Satanism is that instead of Jesus you got Satan....you got to follow somebody. Away with these empty gurus. "Organized religion" is an oxymoron. Be your own Jesus...be your own Satan...be your own God ruler and master.




That would work well if it wasn't necessary to facilitate your beliefs into society, through law, politics, etc.

If every person had a unique set of ideals, now that would be chaos. Organized religion unifies, unification is key.

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: spud]
    #5738886 - 06/11/06 05:46 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Baaaaa...


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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Veritas]
    #5738894 - 06/11/06 05:49 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

I see a field of happy sheep, living in harmony  :heart:

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: spud]
    #5738899 - 06/11/06 05:50 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

spud said:
Hah, I hope you are joking.




why? Is it ilogical?


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I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Veritas]
    #5738904 - 06/11/06 05:51 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Baaaaa...






Sheep are dear animals. What's wrong with being like one?


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I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: spud]
    #5738911 - 06/11/06 05:53 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Yes, enjoying their captivity, waiting patiently to be sheared, panicking at any change they experience, and moving in a flock (even if the flock is running off a cliff.)

No, thanks.  :thumbdown:  Unity and conformity are not the same thing.  I can appreciate my oneness with other humans without conforming to the ideals and beliefs of the group, without following a shepherd, and without following the flock off a metaphorical cliff.

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Silversoul]
    #5738916 - 06/11/06 05:54 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
I really don't and never have seen WTF you are talking about. I think you have it backwards and can't see it. :wink:



huh? :what:




Zactly!

It seems to me that the practioners of the so called "right hand path" are just as self centered (from their posting here and ones I know personally in my world) as the so called leftys. Same ego trips, and self-importance as anyone but always boasting of the selflessness of their path. The leftys are more balanced and honest IMO and experience as opposted to the dishonesty of the rightys. And that's my 2 cents.


If I had to choose, I'd go with the leftys every single time. It's like Veritas says. "I don't want to go to heaven because I wouldn't like the company"  :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5738917 - 06/11/06 05:54 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:


If he is weak or stupid enough to alow that to happen, then they deserve to survive more than him.




Being outnumbered is not a sign of weakness, it is a sign of exploitation and/or betrayal. One is not weak for being exploited, one was done wrong.

Throughout history, there have been martyrs of the arts and sciences. All sacrificed for the supposed greater good of the current paradigm. It does not make the martyr weak nor stupid, it makes them very unfortunate.

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Veritas]
    #5738932 - 06/11/06 05:58 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

I said nothing of conformity. Each religion offers a unique, diverse flavor. Yet each has a similar goal in mind. It's not a sacrifice of belief, rather it's the embrace of the archetypical nature of mankind.

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: spud]
    #5738934 - 06/11/06 05:59 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

spud said:
Quote:


If he is weak or stupid enough to alow that to happen, then they deserve to survive more than him.




Being outnumbered is not a sign of weakness, it is a sign of exploitation and/or betrayal. One is not weak for being exploited, one was done wrong.

Throughout history, there have been martyrs of the arts and sciences. All sacrificed for the supposed greater good of the current paradigm. It does not make the martyr weak nor stupid, it makes them very unfortunate.




When being outnumbered, your ability is at test. The best can beat the whole world by being cunning.

And exploitation is a virtue in evolution and nature.
The strong exploit the weak, and the purpuse of the weak is to serve the strong.


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I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5738939 - 06/11/06 06:01 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

I disagree. I don't measure one's aptitude through their ability of negative resistance. Rather, I measure it through their ability of positive input and creation.

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: spud]
    #5738953 - 06/11/06 06:05 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

spud said:
I disagree. I don't measure one's aptitude through their ability of negative resistance. Rather, I measure it through their ability of positive input and creation.




What does your measure of people have to do with anything in this picture?


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I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: spud]
    #5738958 - 06/11/06 06:06 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

If you have to be religious, then it is conformity. Unity in spirit is not the true goal of organized religions, IMO. Most seem to promote an us-them attitude towards outsiders, and a one-down attitude towards divinity. I say that spirit is spirit, whether it dwells within someone who is different from me in every visible way, or whether it is the spiritual energy I call Love. Others may say God, Allah, Flying Spaghetti Monster, and mean the same thing, or they may use these terms to describe what I call Hatred, Intolerance, Oppression, Division, and Fear.

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5738959 - 06/11/06 06:07 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

You used the terms "weak" and "stupid". Both adjectives, used to determine value and worth of an individual. I was simply stating my premises of value placement.

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Veritas]
    #5738972 - 06/11/06 06:09 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Others may say God, Allah, Flying Spaghetti Monster, and mean the same thing, or they may use these terms to describe what I call Hatred, Intolerance, Oppression, Division, and Fear.




Yes, there is a duality to it.

Do you believe one truly in touch with God (however you define it), is capable of producing such levels of hatred, intolerance, oppression, division, and fear as seen in history and today?

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: spud]
    #5738976 - 06/11/06 06:12 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

spud said:
You used the terms "weak" and "stupid". Both adjectives, used to determine value and worth of an individual. I was simply stating my premises of value placement.




That's not subjective value in nature. Intelligence is comparable between creatures and shows direct results in every day survival, and weakness is also directly observable in confrontations.

I didn't use those words to determine worth of an individual.
All beings are worthless because they are an accident, and are no better than rocks.


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I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Icelander]
    #5738982 - 06/11/06 06:13 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
I really don't and never have seen WTF you are talking about. I think you have it backwards and can't see it. :wink:



huh? :what:




Zactly!

It seems to me that the practioners of the so called "right hand path" are just as self centered (from their posting here and ones I know personally in my world) as the so called leftys. Same ego trips, and self-importance as anyone but always boasting of the selflessness of their path. The leftys are more balanced and honest IMO and experience as opposted to the dishonesty of the rightys. And that's my 2 cents.


If I had to choose, I'd go with the leftys every single time. It's like Veritas says. "I don't want to go to heaven because I wouldn't like the company"  :thumbup:



I always figured you to be a lefty.  It's not that those who follow the right-hand path are never arrogant or selfish.  But they at least recognize the destructiveness of such tendencies, and try to avoid them.  To follow the path of righteousness imperfectly is better than to follow the path of evil perfectly, IMO.


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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Veritas]
    #5738983 - 06/11/06 06:14 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
If you have to be religious, then it is conformity. Unity in spirit is not the true goal of organized religions, IMO. Most seem to promote an us-them attitude towards outsiders, and a one-down attitude towards divinity. I say that spirit is spirit, whether it dwells within someone who is different from me in every visible way, or whether it is the spiritual energy I call Love. Others may say God, Allah, Flying Spaghetti Monster, and mean the same thing, or they may use these terms to describe what I call Hatred, Intolerance, Oppression, Division, and Fear.




Why do you equate religious gods with spiritual energy? Such a description is never used in any of the scriptures of any of these religions.


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I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Silversoul]
    #5738992 - 06/11/06 06:16 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
I really don't and never have seen WTF you are talking about. I think you have it backwards and can't see it. :wink:



huh? :what:




Zactly!

It seems to me that the practioners of the so called "right hand path" are just as self centered (from their posting here and ones I know personally in my world) as the so called leftys. Same ego trips, and self-importance as anyone but always boasting of the selflessness of their path. The leftys are more balanced and honest IMO and experience as opposted to the dishonesty of the rightys. And that's my 2 cents.


If I had to choose, I'd go with the leftys every single time. It's like Veritas says. "I don't want to go to heaven because I wouldn't like the company"  :thumbup:



I always figured you to be a lefty.  It's not that those who follow the right-hand path are never arrogant or selfish.  But they at least recognize the destructiveness of such tendencies, and try to avoid them.  To follow the path of righteousness imperfectly is better than to follow the path of evil perfectly, IMO.




There you go again.

The left hand path is in no way evil, anymore so than the right hand path.  :tongue:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: spud]
    #5738994 - 06/11/06 06:18 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

No, I do not.  This is why I dislike the results of organized religions.  It seems to me that those in power within these organizations seek to exploit the spiritual search of their "flock," and that it is to their benefit to continue to be the middle-man, mediating the contact with divinity. 

Just like any clever marketing campaign, they create a need for their product.  If you want to sell diet products, convince everyone that a size 0 is the only attractive body type.  If you want to sell religion, convince people that they are lowly and sinful, and they need saving (which their church can provide).

Anyone who truly experienced direct contact with divine energy, and recognized that it is within everything and everyone, could not engage in hatred, oppression and intolerance towards others.  :heart:

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5738997 - 06/11/06 06:18 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

The claim that victims of conspiracy or sacrifice is a sign of either weakness or stupidity is just absurd.

I can list numerous prodigies who have been the victim of conspiracy, and have paid the price of their life for it.

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Icelander]
    #5739001 - 06/11/06 06:19 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
There you go again.

The left hand path is in no way evil, anymore so than the right hand path.  :tongue:




Wheather you like it or not, that kind of life is defined as evil traditionally. Now what you have right to do is argue that evil is not something to be avoided or feared. Change the value of the word evil


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I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Veritas]
    #5739007 - 06/11/06 06:20 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

There are examples of entire societies living in peace and harmony under a unifying religion. Take the Sufis in Aleppo, Syria. Extremely religious in nature, they advocate political freedom.

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5739009 - 06/11/06 06:20 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

Veritas said:
If you have to be religious, then it is conformity. Unity in spirit is not the true goal of organized religions, IMO. Most seem to promote an us-them attitude towards outsiders, and a one-down attitude towards divinity. I say that spirit is spirit, whether it dwells within someone who is different from me in every visible way, or whether it is the spiritual energy I call Love. Others may say God, Allah, Flying Spaghetti Monster, and mean the same thing, or they may use these terms to describe what I call Hatred, Intolerance, Oppression, Division, and Fear.




Why do you equate religious gods with spiritual energy? Such a description is never used in any of the scriptures of any of these religions.




Yes, I know. This is part of my dislike for religion. Perhaps some who practice religion are actually in touch with the divine energy behind the empty words. Perhaps not.

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5739012 - 06/11/06 06:21 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
There you go again.

The left hand path is in no way evil, anymore so than the right hand path.  :tongue:




Wheather you like it or not, that kind of life is defined as evil traditionally. Now what you have right to do is argue that evil is not something to be avoided or feared. Change the value of the word evil




HE HAS SKULLS IN HIS AVATAR, HE MUST BE EVIL!

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: spud]
    #5739013 - 06/11/06 06:21 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

spud said:
The claim that victims of conspiracy or sacrifice is a sign of either weakness or stupidity is just absurd.

I can list numerous prodigies who have been the victim of conspiracy, and have paid the price of their life for it.




They are prodigies in the humanistic worldview, but from evolutionary point of view they are idiots for not using their talent for their own gain instead of helping the competition.

If you don't like the idea of natural selection and evolution, then believe in something else, but don't try to change it into something pleasant to you


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I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Veritas]
    #5739017 - 06/11/06 06:23 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

Veritas said:
If you have to be religious, then it is conformity. Unity in spirit is not the true goal of organized religions, IMO. Most seem to promote an us-them attitude towards outsiders, and a one-down attitude towards divinity. I say that spirit is spirit, whether it dwells within someone who is different from me in every visible way, or whether it is the spiritual energy I call Love. Others may say God, Allah, Flying Spaghetti Monster, and mean the same thing, or they may use these terms to describe what I call Hatred, Intolerance, Oppression, Division, and Fear.




Why do you equate religious gods with spiritual energy? Such a description is never used in any of the scriptures of any of these religions.




Yes, I know. This is part of my dislike for religion. Perhaps some who practice religion are actually in touch with the divine energy behind the empty words. Perhaps not.




But where do you get this idea of divine energy in the first place?


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I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: spud]
    #5739018 - 06/11/06 06:23 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

spud said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
There you go again.

The left hand path is in no way evil, anymore so than the right hand path.  :tongue:




Wheather you like it or not, that kind of life is defined as evil traditionally. Now what you have right to do is argue that evil is not something to be avoided or feared. Change the value of the word evil




HE HAS SKULLS IN HIS AVATAR, HE MUST BE EVIL!




Skulls are not evil. Only evil fears of skulls


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Invisiblespud
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5739021 - 06/11/06 06:24 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

spud said:
The claim that victims of conspiracy or sacrifice is a sign of either weakness or stupidity is just absurd.

I can list numerous prodigies who have been the victim of conspiracy, and have paid the price of their life for it.




They are prodigies in the humanistic worldview, but from evolutionary point of view they are idiots for not using their talent for their own gain instead of helping the competition.





There is no evolutionary point of view. There is no intent with evolution. Evolution is random, it has no intent. There is no right. There is no wrong. You are personifying a completely inanimate, unconscious event. Same fallacy as those who try to argue Social Darwinism. There is no systematic point of reference.

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5739023 - 06/11/06 06:25 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

spud said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
There you go again.

The left hand path is in no way evil, anymore so than the right hand path.  :tongue:




Wheather you like it or not, that kind of life is defined as evil traditionally. Now what you have right to do is argue that evil is not something to be avoided or feared. Change the value of the word evil




HE HAS SKULLS IN HIS AVATAR, HE MUST BE EVIL!




Skulls are not evil. Only evil fears of skulls




Perhaps I should have added a  :smirk: ?

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: spud]
    #5739028 - 06/11/06 06:27 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

spud said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

spud said:
The claim that victims of conspiracy or sacrifice is a sign of either weakness or stupidity is just absurd.

I can list numerous prodigies who have been the victim of conspiracy, and have paid the price of their life for it.




They are prodigies in the humanistic worldview, but from evolutionary point of view they are idiots for not using their talent for their own gain instead of helping the competition.





There is no evolutionary point of view. There is no intent with evolution. Evolution is random, it has no intent. There is no right. There is no wrong. You are personifying a completely inanimate, unconscious event. Same fallacy as those who try to argue Social Darwinism. There is no systematic point of reference.




yes, evolution has no intent, and is random, but the outcome of the struggles shows what kind of behaviour is positive for survival, and what kind is not. Obviously if you get killed or die of hunger, you did something wrong.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: spud]
    #5739032 - 06/11/06 06:28 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

spud said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

spud said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
There you go again.

The left hand path is in no way evil, anymore so than the right hand path.  :tongue:




Wheather you like it or not, that kind of life is defined as evil traditionally. Now what you have right to do is argue that evil is not something to be avoided or feared. Change the value of the word evil




HE HAS SKULLS IN HIS AVATAR, HE MUST BE EVIL!




Skulls are not evil. Only evil fears of skulls




Perhaps I should have added a  :smirk: ?




I know you were kidding, I just wanted to add that.
Evil fears death


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5739035 - 06/11/06 06:29 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
There you go again.

The left hand path is in no way evil, anymore so than the right hand path.  :tongue:




Wheather you like it or not, that kind of life is defined as evil traditionally. Now what you have right to do is argue that evil is not something to be avoided or feared. Change the value of the word evil




Tradition is usually an evil IMO, Tantra has been called a left hand path. Sex=evil. Well, that's there business and if they want to call it evil they can. I just think "they" live in fear and cannot in any way acknowledge those shameful feelings or accept them so they hold up some unreal ideal of perfection and pretend to strive for it and hold everyone else who doesn't as wanting. :smirk:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Icelander]
    #5739037 - 06/11/06 06:30 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
The left hand path is in no way evil, anymore so than the right hand path.  :tongue:



Forgive my poor use of language.  I did not mean to imply such a thing.

In a sense, you are right.  Both the right-hand and left-hand path have the potential for evil.  But I dare say that the right-hand path has greater potential for good, by virtue of the fact that it inherently involves regard for others.


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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Icelander]
    #5739045 - 06/11/06 06:31 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
There you go again.

The left hand path is in no way evil, anymore so than the right hand path.  :tongue:




Wheather you like it or not, that kind of life is defined as evil traditionally. Now what you have right to do is argue that evil is not something to be avoided or feared. Change the value of the word evil




Tradition is usually an evil IMO, Tantra has been called a left hand path. Sex=evil. Well, that's there business and if they want to call it evil they can. I just think "they" live in fear and cannot in any way acknowledge those shameful feelings or accept them so they hold up some unreal ideal of perfection and pretend to strive for it and hold everyone else who doesn't as wanting. :smirk:




Then how do you define evil?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5739049 - 06/11/06 06:32 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

there would be some to argue that natural selection isn't random, if you can prove the unrandomness of it then you could prove god.

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: capliberty]
    #5739056 - 06/11/06 06:33 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

capliberty said:
there would be some to argue that natural selection isn't random, if you can prove the unrandomness of it then you could prove god.




The premise of this discussion is that there is no god, therefore evolution is random


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I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5739063 - 06/11/06 06:36 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

.


--------------------
m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.

Edited by matt (08/31/07 05:42 PM)

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: spud]
    #5739093 - 06/11/06 06:42 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Syria has been under martial law since 1963, and the Syrian government maintains the peace through thousands of human rights violations. Syrian women are still socially and legally oppressed, and religious freedom is non-existent.

This is not a great example of the peace achieved through religious conformity.

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Veritas]
    #5739102 - 06/11/06 06:45 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Aleppo is an unusual case for Syria.

Check it out.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5477014

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Veritas]
    #5739107 - 06/11/06 06:46 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

satanism is just another philosophy of the carnal mind, it makes sense to the carnal mind and won't help you rise above the carnal mind. if you believe the carnal mind is all there is, then satanism may sound very reasonable to you.

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5739111 - 06/11/06 06:48 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

spud said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

spud said:
The claim that victims of conspiracy or sacrifice is a sign of either weakness or stupidity is just absurd.

I can list numerous prodigies who have been the victim of conspiracy, and have paid the price of their life for it.




They are prodigies in the humanistic worldview, but from evolutionary point of view they are idiots for not using their talent for their own gain instead of helping the competition.





There is no evolutionary point of view. There is no intent with evolution. Evolution is random, it has no intent. There is no right. There is no wrong. You are personifying a completely inanimate, unconscious event. Same fallacy as those who try to argue Social Darwinism. There is no systematic point of reference.




yes, evolution has no intent, and is random, but the outcome of the struggles shows what kind of behaviour is positive for survival, and what kind is not. Obviously if you get killed or die of hunger, you did something wrong.




not according to timothy leary, he believed evolution had direction and purpose. how can we be certaine evolution is completely random?

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: spud]
    #5739113 - 06/11/06 06:49 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

As an atheist, what would one accuse these leaders of doing? Being to successfull in having control over people around them? They have a right to try and enslave others if they have the power, and these have succeded.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: spud]
    #5739119 - 06/11/06 06:50 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

This is one imam at one mosque, located in the middle of a country where people can be "disappeared" for disrupting the status quo.

How can you distinguish between peace and paralysis? Thumbs way up for the courage of one man bucking the system, but I find it difficult to believe that the relative "peacefulness" of that region is due to religious conformity.

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5739128 - 06/11/06 06:52 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

As an atheist, I'd say they are extremely successful, efficient individuals. It was a belief I've held my entire life, being an agnostic.

I no longer doubt the existence of divinity, so needless to say I currently hold a varying view.

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Deviate]
    #5739129 - 06/11/06 06:52 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

spud said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

spud said:
The claim that victims of conspiracy or sacrifice is a sign of either weakness or stupidity is just absurd.

I can list numerous prodigies who have been the victim of conspiracy, and have paid the price of their life for it.




They are prodigies in the humanistic worldview, but from evolutionary point of view they are idiots for not using their talent for their own gain instead of helping the competition.





There is no evolutionary point of view. There is no intent with evolution. Evolution is random, it has no intent. There is no right. There is no wrong. You are personifying a completely inanimate, unconscious event. Same fallacy as those who try to argue Social Darwinism. There is no systematic point of reference.




yes, evolution has no intent, and is random, but the outcome of the struggles shows what kind of behaviour is positive for survival, and what kind is not. Obviously if you get killed or die of hunger, you did something wrong.




not according to timothy leary, he believed evolution had direction and purpose. how can we be certaine evolution is completely random?




Are you suggesting there is an unknown force at work that drives it into a certain direction?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Deviate]
    #5739138 - 06/11/06 06:53 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:


not according to timothy leary, he believed evolution had direction and purpose. how can we be certaine evolution is completely random?




One could start by researching more creditable authorities on topic than Leary :lol:

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Silversoul]
    #5739145 - 06/11/06 06:54 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)



But I dare say that the right-hand path has greater potential for good, by virtue of the fact that it inherently involves regard for others.

There you go again.

The left had path has regard for others. It just acknowledges the value of the self.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (06/11/06 06:56 PM)

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Icelander]
    #5739150 - 06/11/06 06:55 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
There you go again.

The left had path has regard for others. It just acknowledges the value of the self.



Sorry, but that is not the left-hand path. The left-hand path is one where self-glorification is the highest goal. One may decide not to interfere with others, but acts of altruism are discouraged.


--------------------

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5739192 - 06/11/06 07:07 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

spud said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

spud said:
The claim that victims of conspiracy or sacrifice is a sign of either weakness or stupidity is just absurd.

I can list numerous prodigies who have been the victim of conspiracy, and have paid the price of their life for it.




They are prodigies in the humanistic worldview, but from evolutionary point of view they are idiots for not using their talent for their own gain instead of helping the competition.





There is no evolutionary point of view. There is no intent with evolution. Evolution is random, it has no intent. There is no right. There is no wrong. You are personifying a completely inanimate, unconscious event. Same fallacy as those who try to argue Social Darwinism. There is no systematic point of reference.




yes, evolution has no intent, and is random, but the outcome of the struggles shows what kind of behaviour is positive for survival, and what kind is not. Obviously if you get killed or die of hunger, you did something wrong.




not according to timothy leary, he believed evolution had direction and purpose. how can we be certaine evolution is completely random?




Are you suggesting there is an unknown force at work that drives it into a certain direction?




i'm asking how we know that it has no direction.

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Silversoul]
    #5739203 - 06/11/06 07:10 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Incorrect. Acts which aid others are not discouraged, but they are performed with full knowledge of the ultimate self-serving nature of any desired act. If your desire is to help others, then service will provide intrinsic rewards.

More on this:

Quote:

Right-Hand Path religions are usually said to share the following properties:

* Belief in a higher power, such as a deity.

* Obedience to the will of the higher power.

* The belief that there is an absolute definition for good and evil that applies to everyone.

* Esoteric belief in the existence of a supernatural mechanism, such as Karma, divine retribution, or Threefold Law, which causes the moral decisions that an individual makes to be reciprocated upon himself.

* The ultimate goal of having the individual consciousness be absorbed into a greater or cosmic whole.


Left-Hand Path religions are usually said to share the following properties:

* The belief that some people can, by attaining spiritual insight, themselves become akin to gods.

* The belief that selfless acts do not exist. Fulfilling one's desire is seen as a selfish act bringing the person satisfaction from accomplishing what they want. Altruism is seen as a myth created by conventional religions.

* An exoteric understanding of concepts such as karma, divine retribution, or Threefold Law, resulting in fluid, rather than strict, codes of morality.

* The belief that the individual self is preeminent, and that all decisions should be made with the goal of cultivating the self (though not the ego).

* The belief that each individual is responsible for his/her own happiness, and that no external force will provide salvation to reward actions which do not advance one's happiness in this life.

* The belief that the forces of the universe can be bent to one's personal will by magical means, and that power gained in such a manner is an aid to enlightenment.

* An agnostic view of the existence of deities, or a Platonic view of deities as "first-forms." If deity is perceived as having a consciousness, then all relationships with deity are in the form of a partnership, an alliance which does not require subservience. The prideful deity likes prideful partners.




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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Deviate]
    #5739204 - 06/11/06 07:10 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Well obviously it has a direction due to laws of cause and effect, and there is only one way it can end, but it doesn't have to be some kind of climax with ultra smart beings or whatever, it could simply be death of all life


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Silversoul]
    #5739205 - 06/11/06 07:11 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
There you go again.

The left had path has regard for others. It just acknowledges the value of the self.



Sorry, but that is not the left-hand path. The left-hand path is one where self-glorification is the highest goal. One may decide not to interfere with others, but acts of altruism are discouraged.




I'd like to see some proof of this please. As far as I know in tantra no act of altruism is discouraged.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (06/11/06 07:12 PM)

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Icelander]
    #5739223 - 06/11/06 07:17 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Actually, tantra itself may be divided into "right-hand/left-hand" practices:

Quote:

Tantra, which in its earliest written form was a distinctly iconoclastic, private, and esoteric practice, evolved into a number of respected, exoteric orders (sampradaya).

It is convenient, although somewhat false, to group the orders into two categories: left-handed and right-handed.

Left-handed tantras (vaama maarg) incorporate five sacraments (pancamakarapuja) of fish, meat, parched grain, wine and sexual intercourse into ritual practice.

Right-handed tantras (dakshin maarg), on the other hand, advocate the visualization of these antinomian practices.



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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Veritas]
    #5739233 - 06/11/06 07:19 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

And as to the question I posted. Is there a difference?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5739239 - 06/11/06 07:20 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Well obviously it has a direction due to laws of cause and effect, and there is only one way it can end, but it doesn't have to be some kind of climax with ultra smart beings or whatever, it could simply be death of all life




or it could be utlra smart beings. for instance, timothy leary believed evolution was headed towards advanced levels of consciousness and space migration. he believed we already had future circuits in our brains that were meant to work in a zero gravity environment and that these circuits could be activated by certain drugs or spiritual exercises. obviously he saw evolution as something more than the mere process of natural selection. now i am not saying i agree with this, it's a pretty far out idea. but i think its certainly possible.

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Deviate]
    #5739247 - 06/11/06 07:23 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Well obviously it has a direction due to laws of cause and effect, and there is only one way it can end, but it doesn't have to be some kind of climax with ultra smart beings or whatever, it could simply be death of all life




or it could be utlra smart beings. for instance, timothy leary believed evolution was headed towards advanced levels of consciousness and space migration. he believed we already had future circuits in our brains that were meant to work in a zero gravity environment and that these circuits could be activated by certain drugs or spiritual exercises. obviously he saw evolution as something more than the mere process of natural selection. now i am not saying i agree with this, it's a pretty far out idea. but i think its certainly possible.




I know what he believed.

What if a meteor fell down and destroyed all life on earth? Then the course of evolution would be death of all life


--------------------
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I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Diploid]
    #5739254 - 06/11/06 07:26 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

I must argue against those who believe in this "Satanist" view of raping your neighbor and gluttony (which you may call "a birth-right of self-indulgence"). Many of you argue that this ultra-competitive nature is our "true" human nature by the observation of other animals. I just want to say that you are simply wrong. If you look at the most evolved species, it appears that "herd" mentality which incorporates reciprocal altruism is the most beneficial trait. Humans must have incorporated this early on which lead to our tribes and eventual cities. You simply can't have a large and dense society that is based around values held in the first post.

Once human precursors started to tribe up and help the weak survive we may have slowly devolved into our current state. Now in our current state we are much less physically fit for raw combat but our brains have continued to develop and we are very far ahead as far as superiority of the species and their ability to survive. This is evident because the single species of human has spread to virtually every area on this planet, and we do it without much instinct or superior strength. In fact, we can survive anywhere because we work as a team and hold many of the loving values inherent in our most popular religions.

In a society where the majority of inhabitants followed this "Satanist" view point there would be no time for developing medicine, weapons, or anything beyond the basic need to defend and offend everyone around you. What incentive would you have to create medicine if you were not sick?

I am sure throughout history this "Satanist" world view has leaked into a few minds but the reason why it isn't a very popular religion/philosophy is because it is weak. It has been proven through survival of the fittest to hold inferior societal beliefs than those of love and altruism. That's why there are so many more Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Islamics, and other religions that believe in spreading less self-centered values. It is not because these people are herded mindlessly, it is because this type of behavior is more conducive to societal advancement and thus a more deeply-rooted belief in many of our cultures and even in our brain.

Go against the grain as a Satanist and you will continually, naturally, and slowly be pulled apart from the the rest of human advancement here on Earth.


--------------------
I do not grow anything illegal.
I do not sell anything.
I am, however, a very curious individual.
I also try to be helpful.

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Icelander]
    #5739264 - 06/11/06 07:28 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Both "paths" in Tantra practice have the same destination: enlightenment. There is no tradition in Tantra which advises practitioners to refrain from serving others.

As to the more general Left-hand Path, a practitioner would help others if it fulfilled their natural desire for service. They would not do so out of a sense of obligation or a desire to be holy.

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: FreedomFight]
    #5739271 - 06/11/06 07:29 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

FreedomFight said:
Many of you argue that this ultra-competitive nature is our "true" human nature by the observation of other animals.




I'm not, I'm just playing a devils advocate and trying to show how nasty darvinism is so that people know what they are getting onvolved in


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: FreedomFight]
    #5739282 - 06/11/06 07:32 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

That's why there are so many more Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Islamics, and other religions that believe in spreading less self-centered values.

Sorry Charlie, I don't see it accept maybe with Buddhism. More destruction of life and liberty has been and is the result of these wonderful religions then all the satanists that have ever lived. The fact that there are few IMO is because most people are ignorant and sheep like and like to cloak their negativity in a religious overcoat. Kind of like the wolf in sheep's clothing.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Icelander]
    #5739293 - 06/11/06 07:35 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
That's why there are so many more Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Islamics, and other religions that believe in spreading less self-centered values.
like to cloak their negativity in a religious overcoat. Kind of like the wolf in sheep's clothing.




well duh, that's the core of the problem

but that has nothing to do with the religions themselfs, the texts, and yet you reject them because of people who read them?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5739307 - 06/11/06 07:40 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

No I don't. I reject them because there is no reason to believe them. I don't buy the "have faith" thing. I like to see a little evidence. And don't think I haven't checked some of them out.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5739341 - 06/11/06 07:47 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

You claim that Christians for example cause more destruction in the world. A perfectly acceptable observation when you consider the historical crusades; however, these people had banded together to defend their beliefs and spread their word of love. Although they may be harsh in their deliverance, they are backed by a good cause.

Also, although there may be a few wolves in sheep's clothing, these men are often discovered and punished by society (the judicial system incorporates many of these same self-less beliefs found in the popular religions). You see, the societal belief is still there but sometimes it is lost in the moment. Many a "sinner" would admit that his actions were not what he believes to be "right" or the most productive to society.


--------------------
I do not grow anything illegal.
I do not sell anything.
I am, however, a very curious individual.
I also try to be helpful.

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Icelander]
    #5739358 - 06/11/06 07:51 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
No I don't. I reject them because there is no reason to believe them. I don't buy the "have faith" thing. I like to see a little evidence. And don't think I haven't checked some of them out.




But you can't see evidence until you have faith, that's how it works.
It's enough to say that no true believer has ever been left in the dark without sign of divine presence, but only after he decided not to cling to it and believe without it.

Don't know wheather you know any such people, because they are difficult to find, but talk with one who really believes and understands the message, and you'll find that he is full of stories of strange miraculous events that changed his life.
Of course, to him they are miracles and proof of god, to you they are not.

It's not just with religion, but with anything really.
Before you accept the results of a scientific test, you have to decide to believe in those results, otherwise they will forever be registered as an scientific error in your mind


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5739391 - 06/11/06 07:56 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Actually you're correct in a major way. As R.A.W. says. "What the thinker thinks, the prover proves." I myself like personal experience and while you can't even be sure of that, that is a benchmark for me suspecting something might be true.Everything else is slightly or heavily suspect.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleFreedomFight
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: FreedomFight]
    #5739406 - 06/11/06 08:01 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

And for the record, I don't align myself with any relgion I am just trying debunk the idea that Satanism is supierior or true human nature by looking at the evolution of man through his most popular religious/philosophical views.


--------------------
I do not grow anything illegal.
I do not sell anything.
I am, however, a very curious individual.
I also try to be helpful.

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5739423 - 06/11/06 08:05 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Well obviously it has a direction due to laws of cause and effect, and there is only one way it can end, but it doesn't have to be some kind of climax with ultra smart beings or whatever, it could simply be death of all life




or it could be utlra smart beings. for instance, timothy leary believed evolution was headed towards advanced levels of consciousness and space migration. he believed we already had future circuits in our brains that were meant to work in a zero gravity environment and that these circuits could be activated by certain drugs or spiritual exercises. obviously he saw evolution as something more than the mere process of natural selection. now i am not saying i agree with this, it's a pretty far out idea. but i think its certainly possible.




I know what he believed.

What if a meteor fell down and destroyed all life on earth? Then the course of evolution would be death of all life




yes and what if an earhquake happened while i was setting up dominos and knocked them all over? it doesn't mean i was setting them up without a direction in mind.

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Deviate]
    #5739439 - 06/11/06 08:09 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

It is a direction, but no more direction than a wind that blows the leaves around, yet we call that random too.

If we call everything random, then evolution is random too, and if we say evolution has a fixed path, then we must say everything does

It's a matter of perspective, not a mater of debate


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Deviate]
    #5739447 - 06/11/06 08:11 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Well obviously it has a direction due to laws of cause and effect, and there is only one way it can end, but it doesn't have to be some kind of climax with ultra smart beings or whatever, it could simply be death of all life




or it could be utlra smart beings. for instance, timothy leary believed evolution was headed towards advanced levels of consciousness and space migration. he believed we already had future circuits in our brains that were meant to work in a zero gravity environment and that these circuits could be activated by certain drugs or spiritual exercises. obviously he saw evolution as something more than the mere process of natural selection. now i am not saying i agree with this, it's a pretty far out idea. but i think its certainly possible.




I know what he believed.

What if a meteor fell down and destroyed all life on earth? Then the course of evolution would be death of all life




yes and what if an earhquake happened while i was setting up dominos and knocked them all over? it doesn't mean i was setting them up without a direction in mind.




But if you are evolution/nature, then you control the earthquake too, so if you really ment to set them all up, you wouldn't have cause an earthquake

There is no such thing as "would have" in nature, everything follows laws of physics.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Icelander]
    #5739453 - 06/11/06 08:13 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
That's why there are so many more Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Islamics, and other religions that believe in spreading less self-centered values.

Sorry Charlie, I don't see it accept maybe with Buddhism. More destruction of life and liberty has been and is the result of these wonderful religions then all the satanists that have ever lived. The fact that there are few IMO is because most people are ignorant and sheep like and like to cloak their negativity in a religious overcoat. Kind of like the wolf in sheep's clothing.




It's quite possible most people simply prefer the path of the right hand than the left


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5739459 - 06/11/06 08:14 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

I thought the definition of evolution is that its not random, that the conditions within our environment help create or curb our existence or nonexistence.

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5739480 - 06/11/06 08:22 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Well obviously it has a direction due to laws of cause and effect, and there is only one way it can end, but it doesn't have to be some kind of climax with ultra smart beings or whatever, it could simply be death of all life




or it could be utlra smart beings. for instance, timothy leary believed evolution was headed towards advanced levels of consciousness and space migration. he believed we already had future circuits in our brains that were meant to work in a zero gravity environment and that these circuits could be activated by certain drugs or spiritual exercises. obviously he saw evolution as something more than the mere process of natural selection. now i am not saying i agree with this, it's a pretty far out idea. but i think its certainly possible.




I know what he believed.

What if a meteor fell down and destroyed all life on earth? Then the course of evolution would be death of all life




yes and what if an earhquake happened while i was setting up dominos and knocked them all over? it doesn't mean i was setting them up without a direction in mind.




But if you are evolution/nature, then you control the earthquake too, so if you really ment to set them all up, you wouldn't have cause an earthquake

There is no such thing as "would have" in nature, everything follows laws of physics.


]

well in that case, a meteror hasn't hit the earth and destroyed all life so there's no need to attempt to explain it.

Edited by Deviate (06/11/06 08:23 PM)

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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5739484 - 06/11/06 08:24 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
That's why there are so many more Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Islamics, and other religions that believe in spreading less self-centered values.
like to cloak their negativity in a religious overcoat. Kind of like the wolf in sheep's clothing.




well duh, that's the core of the problem

but that has nothing to do with the religions themselfs, the texts, and yet you reject them because of people who read them?




People don't "reject" because of wars, crusades, jihads, bigotry, televang-idiocy or people starving in subsaharan Africa. They reject because they identify purely with the egoic self and are subsequently dominated by their own sensory input, unable to penetrate the veil between physics and Mystery. Not much you can do except pray for such people that they might transform at a later date.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Basilides]
    #5739539 - 06/11/06 08:42 PM (18 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
That's why there are so many more Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Islamics, and other religions that believe in spreading less self-centered values.

Sorry Charlie, I don't see it accept maybe with Buddhism. More destruction of life and liberty has been and is the result of these wonderful religions then all the satanists that have ever lived. The fact that there are few IMO is because most people are ignorant and sheep like and like to cloak their negativity in a religious overcoat. Kind of like the wolf in sheep's clothing.




It's quite possible most people simply prefer the path of the right hand than the left




Zactly!


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: spud]
    #5739588 - 06/11/06 08:59 PM (18 years, 12 days ago)

"Organized religion unifies"

Yes, it unifies those who wish to fight the unbelievers and make war on them.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5739602 - 06/11/06 09:04 PM (18 years, 12 days ago)

It has been a while since this was posted. It is relevant here:

"Whoever we are
Wherever were from
We shoulda noticed by now
Our behavior is dumb
And if our chances
Expect to improve
Its gonna take a lot more
Than tryin to remove
The other race
Or the other whatever
From the face
Of the planet altogether

They call it the earth
Which is a dumb kinda name
But they named it right
cause we behave the same...
We are dumb all over
Dumb all over,
Yes we are
Dumb all over,
Near n far
Dumb all over,
Black n white
People, we is not wrapped tight

Nurds on the left
Nurds on the right
Religous fanatics
On the air every night
Sayin the bible
Tells the story
Makes the details
Sound real gory
bout what to do
If the geeks over there
Dont believe in the book
We got over here

You cant run a race
Without no feet
n pretty soon
There wont be no street
For dummies to jog on
Or doggies to dog on
Religous fanatics
Can make it be all gone
(I mean it wont blow up
n disappear
Itll just look ugly
For a thousand years...)

You cant run a country
By a book of religion
Not by a heap
Or a lump or a smidgeon
Of foolish rules
Of ancient date
Designed to make
You all feel great
While you fold, spindle
And mutilate
Those unbelievers
From a neighboring state

To arms! to arms!
Hooray! thats great
Two legs aint bad
Unless theres a crate
They ship the parts
To mama in
For souvenirs: two ears (get down!)
Not his, not hers, (but what the hey? )
The good book says:
(it gotta be that way!)
But their book says:
Revenge the crusades...
With whips n chains
n hand grenades...
Two arms? two arms?
Have another and another
Our God says:
There aint no other!
Our God says
Its all okay!
Our God says
This is the way!

It says in the book:
Burn n destroy...
n repent, n redeem
n revenge, n deploy
n rumble thee forth
To the land of the unbelieving scum on the other side
cause they dont go for whats in the book
n that makes em bad
So verily we must choppeth them up
And stompeth them down
Or rent a nice french bomb
To poof them out of existance
While leaving their real estate just where we need it
To use again
For temples in which to praise our god
(cause he can really take care of business!)

And when his humble tv servant
With humble white hair
And humble glasses
And a nice brown suit
And maybe a blond wife who takes phone calls
Tells us our God says
Its okay to do this stuff
Then we gotta do it,
cause if we dont do it,
We aint gwine up to hebbin!
(depending on which book youre using at the
Time...cant use theirs... it dont work
...its all lies...gotta use mine...)
Aint that right?
Thats what they say
Every night...
Every day...
Hey, we cant really be dumb
If were just following gods orders
Hey, lets get serious...
God knows what hes doin
He wrote this book here
An the book says:
He made us all to be just like him,
So...
If were dumb...
Then God is dumb...
(an maybe even a little ugly on the side)" --Frank Zappa


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5739654 - 06/11/06 09:21 PM (18 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:
The purpose of altruism is survival.
(To clear things up: by "altruism" I mean "reciprocal altruism".)




So you have two chimps, one weak and sick, other strong and large. Both are hungry

Reciprocal altruism makes them both share some food. Both survive.
The weak one too, and give birth to some more weak chimps.

Then lions come and kill half of the chimp population who are children of the weak chimp

On the other hand you have extreme individualism.
The strong chimp stole all of the food the weak one had, and ate it all. The weak one died. The strong one had many children, and the
chimps escaped the confrontation with the lion alive

Again, how did altruism help survival of the chimps?




According to your own story, half the "weak chimps" and all the "strong chimps" survived, whereas without altruism, only the "strong chimps" survived. Not only does reciprocal altruism increased the chance of survival for the "weak chimps", but it benefits the "strong chimps" also. If it did not aid the survival of a species, according to Darwinism, reciprocal altruism would not exist.

Quote:

If the stupid humans don't die of hunger before they multiply (due to altruism of the leading ones), then how will humanity get rid of their stupid genes?




There is no "stupid gene".

Humans benefit greatly from keeping other humans around. (See: civilization.)

Edited by MushmanTheManic (06/11/06 09:23 PM)

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5739718 - 06/11/06 09:34 PM (18 years, 12 days ago)

So Sweet!


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Diploid]
    #5739892 - 06/11/06 10:09 PM (18 years, 12 days ago)

When I matriculated to college they had a form that asked what religion and I responded Satanism.

Worked like a charm, Youth For Christ never knocked on my dorm room door.


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Anxiety is what you make it.

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Offlinemr_kite
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: spud]
    #5740676 - 06/12/06 03:26 AM (18 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

spud said:
.... they do not believe in some being named "Satan", and use his name purely symbolically in relation to human values they deem as wrong.




Bollocks that. They use it because it's provocative and sounds dangerous and they want to get on everybody's tits.


--------------------
let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5740762 - 06/12/06 05:04 AM (18 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:
The purpose of altruism is survival.
(To clear things up: by "altruism" I mean "reciprocal altruism".)




So you have two chimps, one weak and sick, other strong and large. Both are hungry

Reciprocal altruism makes them both share some food. Both survive.
The weak one too, and give birth to some more weak chimps.

Then lions come and kill half of the chimp population who are children of the weak chimp

On the other hand you have extreme individualism.
The strong chimp stole all of the food the weak one had, and ate it all. The weak one died. The strong one had many children, and the
chimps escaped the confrontation with the lion alive

Again, how did altruism help survival of the chimps?




According to your own story, half the "weak chimps" and all the "strong chimps" survived, whereas without altruism, only the "strong chimps" survived. Not only does reciprocal altruism increased the chance of survival for the "weak chimps", but it benefits the "strong chimps" also. If it did not aid the survival of a species, according to Darwinism, reciprocal altruism would not exist.

Quote:

If the stupid humans don't die of hunger before they multiply (due to altruism of the leading ones), then how will humanity get rid of their stupid genes?




There is no "stupid gene".

Humans benefit greatly from keeping other humans around. (See: civilization.)




No, accoarding to my story. The population of chimps was the same exept that 50% of them were weak, and 50% were strong. The weak half died, leaving only 50% of the previous chimp population alive.

whereas in other story, all of the chimp population survived (the number was double in the end)

And yes there are stupid genes. Retards are born that way, not taught to be retards


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: capliberty]
    #5740764 - 06/12/06 05:12 AM (18 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

capliberty said:
I thought the definition of evolution is that its not random, that the conditions within our environment help create or curb our existence or nonexistence.




Yes, but randomness is an indulgence of a human mind. We call things random, things that are not affected by a conscious mind, human or otherwise.

But of course you are right, nothing can be really random.
But what I'm trying to say with "random" is that evolution is not something that develops with a certain end goal, it just follows the conditions and shapes beings accoarding to the environment.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Basilides]
    #5740768 - 06/12/06 05:17 AM (18 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
That's why there are so many more Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Islamics, and other religions that believe in spreading less self-centered values.
like to cloak their negativity in a religious overcoat. Kind of like the wolf in sheep's clothing.




well duh, that's the core of the problem

but that has nothing to do with the religions themselfs, the texts, and yet you reject them because of people who read them?




People don't "reject" because of wars, crusades, jihads, bigotry, televang-idiocy or people starving in subsaharan Africa. They reject because they identify purely with the egoic self and are subsequently dominated by their own sensory input, unable to penetrate the veil between physics and Mystery. Not much you can do except pray for such people that they might transform at a later date.




Yes, I think you are right. It's all just excuse for one simple fact: they can't make sense of it, it just doesn't ring true to them

I think there is no veil between physics and mystery, but instead a vail between the reality and human understanding of reality.
God is not mysterious to himself or to the saints in his house, but only to humans down here because they don't understand.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter] * 1
    #5740927 - 06/12/06 08:25 AM (18 years, 12 days ago)

Bas said.


People don't "reject" because of wars, crusades, jihads, bigotry, televang-idiocy or people starving in subsaharan Africa. They reject because they identify purely with the egoic self and are subsequently dominated by their own sensory input, unable to penetrate the veil "between physics and Mystery. Not much you can do except pray for such people that they might transform at a later date.


Horsepucky. More egoism from the holyier than thou. I don't identify purely with my egoic self and I suspect much less than you do. I "reject" because it takes the immensity out there and makes it petty.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineViveka
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Diploid]
    #5742408 - 06/12/06 04:04 PM (18 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Pretentiousness—Empty posturing can be most irritating and isn’t applying the cardinal rules of Lesser Magic...Everyone’s made to feel like a big shot, whether they can come up with the goods or not.





From the same document:
"Projecting your reactions, responses and sensibilities onto someone who is probably far less attuned than you are. It is the mistake of expecting people to give you the same consideration, courtesy and respect that you naturally give them.

"You must never lose sight of who and what you are, and what a threat you can be, by your very existence."

"We are making history right now, every day"

"know that you are working on another level entirely from the rest of the world."

Gee, does any of that sound pretentious?

Quote:

2. Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!




This is merely a reaction to one definition of "spiritual", pure rhetoric.  Satanism is loaded with it's own share of dogma and ritual which is easily defined as spiritual.

Quote:

Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit!




:rolleyes:

Quote:

4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates!

5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek! [



Well, it doesn't take much to aspire to those high values.  And I'm sure they're ultimately really healthy, self-serving perspectives, right?

Quote:

Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires!




Oh my! Did he say vampires?

Quote:

Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his “divine spiritual and intellectual development,” has become the most vicious animal of all!




Then go graze with the cattle, Anton.  My aspiring Satanist roommate parrots this one all the time.  Of course, if this was at all honest, it would read "has become the potentially most vicious animal of all".  But Anton and his intellectual SlaVeys aren't interested in intellectual honesty so much as indulging in inflammatory rhetoric and unresolved psychology. 

Quote:

8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!





Here's the Satanist's favorite lie.  Notice the implication that the physical, mental and emotional faculties are seperate.  The folly is that one might derive physical pleasure but at the expense of the emotions, emotional gratification but at the expense of the physical body, etc...  And that's just the most fundamental error in the statement.

And yes, most of the "Eleven Satanic Rules" are just common sense and one can choose to adopt those principles without being saddled with the external definiton as "Satanist" with all its dubious implications.

Quote:

When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.




:supercrankey:  Could we be any more dramatic?

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Viveka]
    #5742437 - 06/12/06 04:13 PM (18 years, 12 days ago)

:thumbup:


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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Silversoul]
    #5742462 - 06/12/06 04:21 PM (18 years, 12 days ago)

One thing to remember:
evil always makes perfect sense

But that is it's obvious disadvantage: it makes sense to such a simple mind such as human brain.
Ever observed logical thinking of a child?


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I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Viveka]
    #5742664 - 06/12/06 05:17 PM (18 years, 12 days ago)

Like most or all religion it seems lame when you really look at it.

I prefer to do without any.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Icelander]
    #5742693 - 06/12/06 05:26 PM (18 years, 12 days ago)

The satan thing is just a teenage-rebelion-showingof-I'm-so-different-you-are-all-pussies kind of a thing obviously, because if they really wanted people to accept them they would wouldn't chose such a widely hated icon.
It's clear as a day that it's an ego trip of pissing people off with the word satan and feeling dangerous.
If people started accepting them, they'd be pissed off because they would no longer be "dangerous" and "edgy" , and insecure people like to feel that.

It's immature really.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Icelander]
    #5742820 - 06/12/06 06:01 PM (18 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Bas said.


People don't "reject" because of wars, crusades, jihads, bigotry, televang-idiocy or people starving in subsaharan Africa. They reject because they identify purely with the egoic self and are subsequently dominated by their own sensory input, unable to penetrate the veil "between physics and Mystery. Not much you can do except pray for such people that they might transform at a later date.


Horsepucky. More egoism from the holyier than thou. I don't identify purely with my egoic self and I suspect much less than you do. I "reject" because it takes the immensity out there and makes it petty.




Any attempt to interpret reality outside the Ground of Being is by nature ego/sense data based.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Basilides]
    #5742841 - 06/12/06 06:05 PM (18 years, 12 days ago)

The "Ground of Being," as in our spiritual essence, or as in organized religion, one God, sin and salvation, etc...?

You speak as though spirituality exists only within the bounds of your concept of religiosity. Save your pious prayers for those who actively engage in using religion to degrade and disempower others. Those of us who are pursuing alternate paths to spirit do not need your help.

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Veritas]
    #5742868 - 06/12/06 06:12 PM (18 years, 12 days ago)

Great!

:thumbup:


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Veritas]
    #5743265 - 06/12/06 07:35 PM (18 years, 12 days ago)

You tell em sweetie. He'd never give me a thumbs up for that. I'm just a guy. :tongue:

:flowers:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Icelander]
    #5743368 - 06/12/06 07:53 PM (18 years, 12 days ago)

I'm not one to hand out thump-ups haphazardly :smirk:


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Basilides]
    #5743529 - 06/12/06 08:23 PM (18 years, 12 days ago)

Matthew 6:5-6

And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

So Bas, seems like Jesus is calling you a hypocrite seeing as how you go out of your way to make a big show of things with that silly pic of Jesus (who's always depicted as a white guy) in your sig. :shrug:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Diploid]
    #5743535 - 06/12/06 08:25 PM (18 years, 12 days ago)



--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Basilides]
    #5743551 - 06/12/06 08:26 PM (18 years, 12 days ago)

:rofl2: :thumbup: I'll be the bigger man and give you a thumbs up on that one.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (06/12/06 08:27 PM)

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Basilides]
    #5743718 - 06/12/06 09:08 PM (18 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
Any attempt to interpret reality outside the Ground of Being is by nature ego/sense data based.




Could you please provide an interpretation of reality without using your self?

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5743739 - 06/12/06 09:11 PM (18 years, 11 days ago)

Only if you do it


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Basilides]
    #5743815 - 06/12/06 09:28 PM (18 years, 11 days ago)


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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Schwammel]
    #5745137 - 06/13/06 08:55 AM (18 years, 11 days ago)

:biggrin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Basilides]
    #5745467 - 06/13/06 11:37 AM (18 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
That's why there are so many more Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Islamics, and other religions that believe in spreading less self-centered values.

Sorry Charlie, I don't see it accept maybe with Buddhism. More destruction of life and liberty has been and is the result of these wonderful religions then all the satanists that have ever lived. The fact that there are few IMO is because most people are ignorant and sheep like and like to cloak their negativity in a religious overcoat. Kind of like the wolf in sheep's clothing.




It's quite possible most people simply prefer the path of the right hand than the left




Sure, most people will say they prefer a right-handed path. This is because the left-handed path has been stigmatized severely throughout history. I think if you look at how these same people act (rather than what they say), you'll find they are much more acquainted with the left path than you (or they) would expect.

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Redstorm]
    #5745579 - 06/13/06 12:26 PM (18 years, 11 days ago)

The right handed one gets its fair share of stigmatization too. From what I observe of people, regardless of which side they say they are on, I see words and actions coming from a blend of both of them.

Each side has its rules they won't let flex or bend (on paper at least) and so each has its dogma.

Why isn't a third path being discussed here? Lets get real here. If someone was being "annoying" in Diploids house, do you really believe he would destroy them with no mercy :confused: I can see him asking the person, to settle down and be reasonable and if they can't, his asking them to kindly leave.

I like some wisdom Bruce Lee came upon that can relate to this. He said that he no longer practices or teaches just anyone style of Martial Art, as if anyone is better then another. Equate that to the left or right path.

He said, what has become MOST important to him now, is expressing himself HONESTLY and Completely as a whole human being in every moment of life.

When we live by someone elses rules like the left and right paths, we are bound to find ourselves in a lot of self denial, and self dishonesty within actions taken to adhere to them.

I think there is a lot of wisdom to that.

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5745602 - 06/13/06 12:36 PM (18 years, 11 days ago)

All true enough. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Redstorm]
    #5745727 - 06/13/06 01:23 PM (18 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Sure, most people will say they prefer a right-handed path. This is because the left-handed path has been stigmatized severely throughout history. I think if you look at how these same people act (rather than what they say), you'll find they are much more acquainted with the left path than you (or they) would expect.



Yes, I think those who intentionally walk the left-hand path aren't as bad as those who claim to walk one path, but follow the other(Pat Robertson, for example).


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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Silversoul]
    #5745752 - 06/13/06 01:30 PM (18 years, 11 days ago)

Gee thanks. Hey I'm not as bad as Pat Robertson. Thanks so much. :thumbup: Us left handers really appreciate this. WOW! :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Icelander]
    #5745760 - 06/13/06 01:32 PM (18 years, 11 days ago)

Sorry, didn't mean to offend. I was simply saying that there are many more who are hypocrites about it than those who are honest with themselves.


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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Silversoul]
    #5745765 - 06/13/06 01:34 PM (18 years, 11 days ago)

It's OK. You can't help yourself. :grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Silversoul]
    #5746385 - 06/13/06 04:39 PM (18 years, 11 days ago)

Also, there are many people who put a hard faux facade and say they only walk the left path, while this is not true in the slightest. I've been their myself. In the past year I found myself in a state of mind where I deicded I would live only for myself and do what I needed to succeed, regardless of how ruthless that was. I realized that I could not maintain this sort of life without a huge amount of effort.

That's not to say that the right path is any more healthy (or "normal"). In my opinion, the path which most people follow, and should follow, is the grassy median between the two dogmatic highways.

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Redstorm]
    #5746388 - 06/13/06 04:40 PM (18 years, 11 days ago)

:thumbup: :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5746874 - 06/13/06 07:09 PM (18 years, 11 days ago)

Reciprocal altruism is beneficial to organisms because it helps to maintain a large degree of genetic variation. While the "strong chimps" may be able to avoid being eaten by lions, the "weak chimps", being lighter, may be able to climb higher trees or have some other advantage. Different variations of chimps have different ecological niches. If the niche changes, the trees become higher off the ground or something, the "strong chimps" may no longer be able to survive as well as the "weaker chimps." Rather than all the "strong chimps" dieing off due to a change in their environment, they are able to survive because the "weak chimps" are willing to share food with them. If the "strong chimps" hadn't shared food with "weak chimps" before the ecological change, they would have died after it.

Being able to survive in varying ecological niches provides an excellent advantage and is one of the reasons why humanity has been able to rise to such heights.

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Diploid]
    #5746887 - 06/13/06 07:11 PM (18 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Whether you prefer "human nature" to be adhered to or view it as something to be detach from (or overcome) seems entirely subjective. I don't see how the first or the latter makes any more sense, objectively.

I see no benefit whatever in a path that makes me strive to be something I am not or to deny something that I am.




Now, it seems, we're back to where we started. These commandments reflect more of your personal system of values than the Ten Commandments, and therefore Laveyian Satanism makes more "sense" to you than Christianity.

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5746891 - 06/13/06 07:12 PM (18 years, 11 days ago)

:thumbup:

Course if we cut down all the trees there ain't gonna be no place to climb to. :grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Icelander]
    #5746908 - 06/13/06 07:17 PM (18 years, 11 days ago)

How dare you! Arrogantly unveiling your bare thumb under the watchful eyes of God!

:minigun:

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5746923 - 06/13/06 07:19 PM (18 years, 11 days ago)

Now,now Doctor J. :grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Diploid]
    #5746925 - 06/13/06 07:20 PM (18 years, 11 days ago)

satanism is perversion, plain and simple. It is an exhaultation of the finite over the infinite, the material over the spiritual.

most satanists justify their hedonism and lack of respect for others via a lack of faith. They don't believe in God, a soul, Justice, or the infinite. They use their lack of believe as justification to 'get their kicks in before the whole shithouse goes up in flames', often at the expense of other people and their environment.

To them I say:

If you do not believe in karma, I pity you, because acting in accordance with this lack of belief is liable to land you in some serious debt, which you will be grueling to pay off for many lifetimes, cursing God the whole time for the consequences of your own mistakes.

If you do not believe in a soul, then I pity you, because that means you basically don't have one, and that you have abdicated God's greatest gift to you.

If you do not believe in the infinite, I pity you, because that means your existence is finite and ends with your death.

If you do not believe in God or Justice, I pity you, because hurting others for your own gain is the best way to summon their wrath, and their wrath ain't pretty.

So Satanist, though you may enjoy your misbegotten wealth and your orgy of destructive hedonism, all the while laughing at and mocking me and my simple existence of humility and reverence, know this: you are laughing at and mocking the wrong person. I know exactly what I am doing. It is you who are in the dark.

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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5746949 - 06/13/06 07:25 PM (18 years, 11 days ago)

So Satanist, though you may enjoy your misbegotten wealth and your orgy of destructive hedonism, all the while laughing at and mocking me and my simple existence of humility and reverence, know this: you are laughing at and mocking the wrong person. I know exactly what I am doing. It is you who are in the dark.

That's a riot Doctor. :thumbup: Love the new avatar.
:rofl2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (06/13/06 07:25 PM)

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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5746956 - 06/13/06 07:27 PM (18 years, 11 days ago)

"Satanism is perversion" says the man with a Crowley avatar, and blinks.

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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5747147 - 06/13/06 08:09 PM (18 years, 11 days ago)

crowley was in no way, shape, or form a satanist

get your facts straight

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5747161 - 06/13/06 08:11 PM (18 years, 11 days ago)

He held some of their beliefs and indulged in a few harmless perversions. :shocked: Certainly didn't believe in God. I'm sure he went to heaven though. :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Icelander]
    #5747204 - 06/13/06 08:18 PM (18 years, 11 days ago)

uhhhhh...  didn't believe in God?  WTF are you talking about?  He spent his entire life trying to understand God, wrote several books about the Light of God, became too powerful and labeled himself the AntiChrist out of shame. 

Crowley was one of God's greatest prophets and visionaries, and also a very hard worker for God.  He studied JEWISH HIGH MAGIC and egyptian magic his entire life!  He created, compiled, and published many magickal texts simply because the Light inspired him to make great wisdom, knowledge, and power available to all of God's children. 

Personally, I would say Crowley is in God's top 100 favorite people to have ever walked the earth. 

if you think he was a satanist, or that he didn't believe in God, you haven't read enough.  Perhaps if you spent less time on the internet ramming your dumb opinions down the throats of naive kids half your age and more time studying and reading, you wouldn't be so prone to misunderstanding :wink:

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5747235 - 06/13/06 08:25 PM (18 years, 11 days ago)

Now, it seems, we're back to where we started. These commandments reflect more of your personal system of values than the Ten Commandments, and therefore Laveyian Satanism makes more "sense" to you than Christianity.

Laveyian Satanism seems to me to be more about 'live and let live' than anything else. Christianity is about 'hate and deny your nature and be what I tell you to be'.

This isn't about my personal system of values. There may be no absolute truths in the world, but I think 'live and let live' comes as close to truth as anything I've heard so far.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5747259 - 06/13/06 08:31 PM (18 years, 11 days ago)

I've read a fair amount about Crowley and he never mentioned you once.

What's the matter boy. You afraid of my opinions? When have I ever forced mine on anyone. I've called you on all your ridiculous BS about being God, is that why you're so defensive.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Diploid]
    #5747269 - 06/13/06 08:36 PM (18 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Now, it seems, we're back to where we started. These commandments reflect more of your personal system of values than the Ten Commandments, and therefore Laveyian Satanism makes more "sense" to you than Christianity.

Laveyian Satanism seems to me to be more about 'live and let live' than anything else. Christianity is about 'hate and deny your nature and be what I tell you to be'.

This isn't about my personal system of values. There may be no absolute truths in the world, but I think 'live and let live' comes as close to truth as anything I've heard so far.




Purty much how I feel about it. Satanism doesn't sound nearly as dangerous as Christanity. You can have all of em as far as I'm concerned, but if I had to pick Satanism would be in the running.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Diploid]
    #5747312 - 06/13/06 08:48 PM (18 years, 11 days ago)

Christianity is about 'hate and deny your nature and be what I tell you to be'.

Just a point of clarification:

I don't think Christ was about hate and denial, but I think Christians are about exactly that.

Christ was a really cool guy in my book, and ironic as this may sound, I endeavor to live by most of his teachings. Truth is truth even when it's weighed down by religion.

I like your Christ, but I do not like Christians - they are so unlike Christ. - Mohandas Ghandi


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5747330 - 06/13/06 08:57 PM (18 years, 10 days ago)

I never said he was a Satanist, although Levay seems to have been strongly influenced by him.

But, Crowley certainly was, much to my adoration, a walking perversion.

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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Icelander]
    #5747332 - 06/13/06 08:57 PM (18 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I've read a fair amount about Crowley and he never mentioned you once.

What's the matter boy. You afraid of my opinions? When have I ever forced mine on anyone. I've called you on all your ridiculous BS about being God, is that why you're so defensive.




I loooove opinions. Even yours. They color the world with variety. Its when people disagree to the point of clashing violently that opinions become a problem!

And who said I didn't want you to call me out on my beliefs? I loooove it when people call me out. It gives me practice in defending my ideas, and forces me to examine other viewpoints I may have not considered. My beliefs are in a constant state of change to match the reality in which I currently reside.

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Redstorm]
    #5747971 - 06/14/06 12:03 AM (18 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Also, there are many people who put a hard faux facade and say they only walk the left path, while this is not true in the slightest. I've been their myself. In the past year I found myself in a state of mind where I decoded I would live only for myself and do what I needed to succeed, regardless of how ruthless that was. I realized that I could not maintain this sort of life without a huge amount of effort.

That's not to say that the right path is any more healthy (or "normal"). In my opinion, the path which most people follow, and should follow, is the grassy median between the two dogmatic highways.




Awesome example of what Bruce Lee was talking about living in total honesty with yourself.

Diploid,

That was nice what you said about Jesus. Thats how I feel about him. :thumbup: I was going to mention him here. Look at all the "self rightious" right path people including the Pope etc, who have lots of material wealth.

Jesus had NOTHING but the robe on his back and it was written he even gave that away at times to others who were cold. He didn't go around collecting material baggage or status titles. How many self righteous Christians live like that? None that I know of. ZERO.

However, a humble group of Aborigines living in the Australian Out back actually do live like he did. These are straight up real and honest human beings fully , purely and innocently walking the wisdom of the sages.

A book I highly recommend to any one is called Mutant Message From Down Under. Its quite humbling. I no longer think of them as being stupid primitive people. They are wise and advanced far beyond me.

Few are honestly the actual left and right extremes. The honestly left ones are on Death Row with no regrets and the honestly Right ones are living naked with nothing in the harsh outback, happy laughing, smilin and well cared for all of the time.

The rest are living in the blend somewhere and might as well get honest about it either way.

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5747998 - 06/14/06 12:15 AM (18 years, 10 days ago)

God's Top 100?


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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OfflineTelepylus
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5748008 - 06/14/06 12:18 AM (18 years, 10 days ago)

there really is no such thing as a satanist.

if someone were to really actually worship satan, they would use a different title or term to describe what they were.


a satanist is a person like al-kida(i can't even spell that word)
or a child molester
or rapist
(or anyone who profit from human suffering- most people are kinda satanic)

Crowley could be called a satanist, but you could call the pope a satanist too, i do.

And, Crowley did more to help the Way of Christ, and to protect christianity than any other man in recent history(since say 1900)

also, if you compare aleister crowley, with some of the freaks that live in the world today, you can even take a guy like trent reznor for example, or thousands of other examples-
crowley was actually a fairly mild mannered dude by comparison to the some of the scum bags that you'd probably call cool & hip today.
(not directing that comment at anyone in specific)

there are alot of lies that pass on about crowley too, usually amongst circles of people who've never actually bothered to read any of his books.

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OfflineTelepylus
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Telepylus]
    #5748026 - 06/14/06 12:23 AM (18 years, 10 days ago)

also, lavey didn't know shit about crowley, or magic power
if he did
he never would've been such a moron
lol


one of the funniest book reviews I ever read came in The Equinox Vol.5 No.5 Sex & Religion where the OTO makes a total fool of him and his cheezy satanic bible.

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OfflineTelepylus
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5748047 - 06/14/06 12:29 AM (18 years, 10 days ago)

crowley believed in Love.
and God is Love.

and he was Honest
and he told the Truth

Crowley was not a "satanist" no, far from it.

he was tied to "Lucifer" though, lol
still is in fact

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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Telepylus]
    #5748108 - 06/14/06 12:47 AM (18 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

there really is no such thing as a satanist.

if someone were to really actually worship satan, they would use a different title or term to describe what they were.


a satanist is a person like al-kida(i can't even spell that word)
or a child molester
or rapist
(or anyone who profit from human suffering- most people are kinda satanic)




Different title. So what? :confused:


Consider this mock example of someone saying-

"Ohhhh no no no you have it all wrong silly. He is not a Satanists! :rofl2: Pfffffffffft. He's just a sadistic child molester. :smile:"

Same difference to me.  Note how I said that one who is honestly and completely one is most likely on death row or serving life having no regrets about what got them there.

I didn't bring up  Crowley in this discussion. He sounds to me like a blender though.

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5748143 - 06/14/06 12:58 AM (18 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

I didn't bring up Crowley in this discussion. He sounds to me like a blender though.




more like a shader. 

a colorist :smile:

don't you like colors?  the world would be pretty boring in black and white. 

anyone who makes progress in reconciling different religions and philosophies is a hero in my book.  If people accept that all religions are just variations of the same thing, perhaps they will stop going to war with eachother over something as trivial as the name they use to denote God. 

not to mention that crowley's teachings and writings put power in the hands of the have-nots, and I've always been a fan of that struggle.

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