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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: FreedomFight]
    #5739282 - 06/11/06 07:32 PM (18 years, 7 days ago)

That's why there are so many more Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Islamics, and other religions that believe in spreading less self-centered values.

Sorry Charlie, I don't see it accept maybe with Buddhism. More destruction of life and liberty has been and is the result of these wonderful religions then all the satanists that have ever lived. The fact that there are few IMO is because most people are ignorant and sheep like and like to cloak their negativity in a religious overcoat. Kind of like the wolf in sheep's clothing.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Icelander]
    #5739293 - 06/11/06 07:35 PM (18 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
That's why there are so many more Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Islamics, and other religions that believe in spreading less self-centered values.
like to cloak their negativity in a religious overcoat. Kind of like the wolf in sheep's clothing.




well duh, that's the core of the problem

but that has nothing to do with the religions themselfs, the texts, and yet you reject them because of people who read them?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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InvisibleIcelander
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Posts: 95,368
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5739307 - 06/11/06 07:40 PM (18 years, 7 days ago)

No I don't. I reject them because there is no reason to believe them. I don't buy the "have faith" thing. I like to see a little evidence. And don't think I haven't checked some of them out.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleFreedomFight
Strange

Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 427
Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5739341 - 06/11/06 07:47 PM (18 years, 7 days ago)

You claim that Christians for example cause more destruction in the world. A perfectly acceptable observation when you consider the historical crusades; however, these people had banded together to defend their beliefs and spread their word of love. Although they may be harsh in their deliverance, they are backed by a good cause.

Also, although there may be a few wolves in sheep's clothing, these men are often discovered and punished by society (the judicial system incorporates many of these same self-less beliefs found in the popular religions). You see, the societal belief is still there but sometimes it is lost in the moment. Many a "sinner" would admit that his actions were not what he believes to be "right" or the most productive to society.


--------------------
I do not grow anything illegal.
I do not sell anything.
I am, however, a very curious individual.
I also try to be helpful.

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Icelander]
    #5739358 - 06/11/06 07:51 PM (18 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
No I don't. I reject them because there is no reason to believe them. I don't buy the "have faith" thing. I like to see a little evidence. And don't think I haven't checked some of them out.




But you can't see evidence until you have faith, that's how it works.
It's enough to say that no true believer has ever been left in the dark without sign of divine presence, but only after he decided not to cling to it and believe without it.

Don't know wheather you know any such people, because they are difficult to find, but talk with one who really believes and understands the message, and you'll find that he is full of stories of strange miraculous events that changed his life.
Of course, to him they are miracles and proof of god, to you they are not.

It's not just with religion, but with anything really.
Before you accept the results of a scientific test, you have to decide to believe in those results, otherwise they will forever be registered as an scientific error in your mind


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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InvisibleIcelander
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Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5739391 - 06/11/06 07:56 PM (18 years, 7 days ago)

Actually you're correct in a major way. As R.A.W. says. "What the thinker thinks, the prover proves." I myself like personal experience and while you can't even be sure of that, that is a benchmark for me suspecting something might be true.Everything else is slightly or heavily suspect.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleFreedomFight
Strange

Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 427
Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: FreedomFight]
    #5739406 - 06/11/06 08:01 PM (18 years, 7 days ago)

And for the record, I don't align myself with any relgion I am just trying debunk the idea that Satanism is supierior or true human nature by looking at the evolution of man through his most popular religious/philosophical views.


--------------------
I do not grow anything illegal.
I do not sell anything.
I am, however, a very curious individual.
I also try to be helpful.

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OfflineDeviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5739423 - 06/11/06 08:05 PM (18 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Well obviously it has a direction due to laws of cause and effect, and there is only one way it can end, but it doesn't have to be some kind of climax with ultra smart beings or whatever, it could simply be death of all life




or it could be utlra smart beings. for instance, timothy leary believed evolution was headed towards advanced levels of consciousness and space migration. he believed we already had future circuits in our brains that were meant to work in a zero gravity environment and that these circuits could be activated by certain drugs or spiritual exercises. obviously he saw evolution as something more than the mere process of natural selection. now i am not saying i agree with this, it's a pretty far out idea. but i think its certainly possible.




I know what he believed.

What if a meteor fell down and destroyed all life on earth? Then the course of evolution would be death of all life




yes and what if an earhquake happened while i was setting up dominos and knocked them all over? it doesn't mean i was setting them up without a direction in mind.

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Registered: 02/01/05
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Deviate]
    #5739439 - 06/11/06 08:09 PM (18 years, 7 days ago)

It is a direction, but no more direction than a wind that blows the leaves around, yet we call that random too.

If we call everything random, then evolution is random too, and if we say evolution has a fixed path, then we must say everything does

It's a matter of perspective, not a mater of debate


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Deviate]
    #5739447 - 06/11/06 08:11 PM (18 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Well obviously it has a direction due to laws of cause and effect, and there is only one way it can end, but it doesn't have to be some kind of climax with ultra smart beings or whatever, it could simply be death of all life




or it could be utlra smart beings. for instance, timothy leary believed evolution was headed towards advanced levels of consciousness and space migration. he believed we already had future circuits in our brains that were meant to work in a zero gravity environment and that these circuits could be activated by certain drugs or spiritual exercises. obviously he saw evolution as something more than the mere process of natural selection. now i am not saying i agree with this, it's a pretty far out idea. but i think its certainly possible.




I know what he believed.

What if a meteor fell down and destroyed all life on earth? Then the course of evolution would be death of all life




yes and what if an earhquake happened while i was setting up dominos and knocked them all over? it doesn't mean i was setting them up without a direction in mind.




But if you are evolution/nature, then you control the earthquake too, so if you really ment to set them all up, you wouldn't have cause an earthquake

There is no such thing as "would have" in nature, everything follows laws of physics.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Icelander]
    #5739453 - 06/11/06 08:13 PM (18 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
That's why there are so many more Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Islamics, and other religions that believe in spreading less self-centered values.

Sorry Charlie, I don't see it accept maybe with Buddhism. More destruction of life and liberty has been and is the result of these wonderful religions then all the satanists that have ever lived. The fact that there are few IMO is because most people are ignorant and sheep like and like to cloak their negativity in a religious overcoat. Kind of like the wolf in sheep's clothing.




It's quite possible most people simply prefer the path of the right hand than the left


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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Offlinecapliberty
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5739459 - 06/11/06 08:14 PM (18 years, 7 days ago)

I thought the definition of evolution is that its not random, that the conditions within our environment help create or curb our existence or nonexistence.

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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5739480 - 06/11/06 08:22 PM (18 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Well obviously it has a direction due to laws of cause and effect, and there is only one way it can end, but it doesn't have to be some kind of climax with ultra smart beings or whatever, it could simply be death of all life




or it could be utlra smart beings. for instance, timothy leary believed evolution was headed towards advanced levels of consciousness and space migration. he believed we already had future circuits in our brains that were meant to work in a zero gravity environment and that these circuits could be activated by certain drugs or spiritual exercises. obviously he saw evolution as something more than the mere process of natural selection. now i am not saying i agree with this, it's a pretty far out idea. but i think its certainly possible.




I know what he believed.

What if a meteor fell down and destroyed all life on earth? Then the course of evolution would be death of all life




yes and what if an earhquake happened while i was setting up dominos and knocked them all over? it doesn't mean i was setting them up without a direction in mind.




But if you are evolution/nature, then you control the earthquake too, so if you really ment to set them all up, you wouldn't have cause an earthquake

There is no such thing as "would have" in nature, everything follows laws of physics.


]

well in that case, a meteror hasn't hit the earth and destroyed all life so there's no need to attempt to explain it.

Edited by Deviate (06/11/06 08:23 PM)

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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5739484 - 06/11/06 08:24 PM (18 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
That's why there are so many more Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Islamics, and other religions that believe in spreading less self-centered values.
like to cloak their negativity in a religious overcoat. Kind of like the wolf in sheep's clothing.




well duh, that's the core of the problem

but that has nothing to do with the religions themselfs, the texts, and yet you reject them because of people who read them?




People don't "reject" because of wars, crusades, jihads, bigotry, televang-idiocy or people starving in subsaharan Africa. They reject because they identify purely with the egoic self and are subsequently dominated by their own sensory input, unable to penetrate the veil between physics and Mystery. Not much you can do except pray for such people that they might transform at a later date.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Basilides]
    #5739539 - 06/11/06 08:42 PM (18 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
That's why there are so many more Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Islamics, and other religions that believe in spreading less self-centered values.

Sorry Charlie, I don't see it accept maybe with Buddhism. More destruction of life and liberty has been and is the result of these wonderful religions then all the satanists that have ever lived. The fact that there are few IMO is because most people are ignorant and sheep like and like to cloak their negativity in a religious overcoat. Kind of like the wolf in sheep's clothing.




It's quite possible most people simply prefer the path of the right hand than the left




Zactly!


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: spud]
    #5739588 - 06/11/06 08:59 PM (18 years, 7 days ago)

"Organized religion unifies"

Yes, it unifies those who wish to fight the unbelievers and make war on them.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5739602 - 06/11/06 09:04 PM (18 years, 7 days ago)

It has been a while since this was posted. It is relevant here:

"Whoever we are
Wherever were from
We shoulda noticed by now
Our behavior is dumb
And if our chances
Expect to improve
Its gonna take a lot more
Than tryin to remove
The other race
Or the other whatever
From the face
Of the planet altogether

They call it the earth
Which is a dumb kinda name
But they named it right
cause we behave the same...
We are dumb all over
Dumb all over,
Yes we are
Dumb all over,
Near n far
Dumb all over,
Black n white
People, we is not wrapped tight

Nurds on the left
Nurds on the right
Religous fanatics
On the air every night
Sayin the bible
Tells the story
Makes the details
Sound real gory
bout what to do
If the geeks over there
Dont believe in the book
We got over here

You cant run a race
Without no feet
n pretty soon
There wont be no street
For dummies to jog on
Or doggies to dog on
Religous fanatics
Can make it be all gone
(I mean it wont blow up
n disappear
Itll just look ugly
For a thousand years...)

You cant run a country
By a book of religion
Not by a heap
Or a lump or a smidgeon
Of foolish rules
Of ancient date
Designed to make
You all feel great
While you fold, spindle
And mutilate
Those unbelievers
From a neighboring state

To arms! to arms!
Hooray! thats great
Two legs aint bad
Unless theres a crate
They ship the parts
To mama in
For souvenirs: two ears (get down!)
Not his, not hers, (but what the hey? )
The good book says:
(it gotta be that way!)
But their book says:
Revenge the crusades...
With whips n chains
n hand grenades...
Two arms? two arms?
Have another and another
Our God says:
There aint no other!
Our God says
Its all okay!
Our God says
This is the way!

It says in the book:
Burn n destroy...
n repent, n redeem
n revenge, n deploy
n rumble thee forth
To the land of the unbelieving scum on the other side
cause they dont go for whats in the book
n that makes em bad
So verily we must choppeth them up
And stompeth them down
Or rent a nice french bomb
To poof them out of existance
While leaving their real estate just where we need it
To use again
For temples in which to praise our god
(cause he can really take care of business!)

And when his humble tv servant
With humble white hair
And humble glasses
And a nice brown suit
And maybe a blond wife who takes phone calls
Tells us our God says
Its okay to do this stuff
Then we gotta do it,
cause if we dont do it,
We aint gwine up to hebbin!
(depending on which book youre using at the
Time...cant use theirs... it dont work
...its all lies...gotta use mine...)
Aint that right?
Thats what they say
Every night...
Every day...
Hey, we cant really be dumb
If were just following gods orders
Hey, lets get serious...
God knows what hes doin
He wrote this book here
An the book says:
He made us all to be just like him,
So...
If were dumb...
Then God is dumb...
(an maybe even a little ugly on the side)" --Frank Zappa


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Posts: 4,587
Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5739654 - 06/11/06 09:21 PM (18 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:
The purpose of altruism is survival.
(To clear things up: by "altruism" I mean "reciprocal altruism".)




So you have two chimps, one weak and sick, other strong and large. Both are hungry

Reciprocal altruism makes them both share some food. Both survive.
The weak one too, and give birth to some more weak chimps.

Then lions come and kill half of the chimp population who are children of the weak chimp

On the other hand you have extreme individualism.
The strong chimp stole all of the food the weak one had, and ate it all. The weak one died. The strong one had many children, and the
chimps escaped the confrontation with the lion alive

Again, how did altruism help survival of the chimps?




According to your own story, half the "weak chimps" and all the "strong chimps" survived, whereas without altruism, only the "strong chimps" survived. Not only does reciprocal altruism increased the chance of survival for the "weak chimps", but it benefits the "strong chimps" also. If it did not aid the survival of a species, according to Darwinism, reciprocal altruism would not exist.

Quote:

If the stupid humans don't die of hunger before they multiply (due to altruism of the leading ones), then how will humanity get rid of their stupid genes?




There is no "stupid gene".

Humans benefit greatly from keeping other humans around. (See: civilization.)

Edited by MushmanTheManic (06/11/06 09:23 PM)

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5739718 - 06/11/06 09:34 PM (18 years, 7 days ago)

So Sweet!


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Posts: 21,407
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Diploid]
    #5739892 - 06/11/06 10:09 PM (18 years, 7 days ago)

When I matriculated to college they had a form that asked what religion and I responded Satanism.

Worked like a charm, Youth For Christ never knocked on my dorm room door.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.

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