Home | Community | Message Board

Cannabis Seeds UK
Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: North Spore Injection Grain Bag, North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | Next >  [ show all ]
OfflineDeviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Veritas]
    #5739107 - 06/11/06 08:46 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

satanism is just another philosophy of the carnal mind, it makes sense to the carnal mind and won't help you rise above the carnal mind. if you believe the carnal mind is all there is, then satanism may sound very reasonable to you.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineDeviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5739111 - 06/11/06 08:48 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

spud said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

spud said:
The claim that victims of conspiracy or sacrifice is a sign of either weakness or stupidity is just absurd.

I can list numerous prodigies who have been the victim of conspiracy, and have paid the price of their life for it.




They are prodigies in the humanistic worldview, but from evolutionary point of view they are idiots for not using their talent for their own gain instead of helping the competition.





There is no evolutionary point of view. There is no intent with evolution. Evolution is random, it has no intent. There is no right. There is no wrong. You are personifying a completely inanimate, unconscious event. Same fallacy as those who try to argue Social Darwinism. There is no systematic point of reference.




yes, evolution has no intent, and is random, but the outcome of the struggles shows what kind of behaviour is positive for survival, and what kind is not. Obviously if you get killed or die of hunger, you did something wrong.




not according to timothy leary, he believed evolution had direction and purpose. how can we be certaine evolution is completely random?


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: spud]
    #5739113 - 06/11/06 08:49 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

As an atheist, what would one accuse these leaders of doing? Being to successfull in having control over people around them? They have a right to try and enslave others if they have the power, and these have succeded.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: spud]
    #5739119 - 06/11/06 08:50 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

This is one imam at one mosque, located in the middle of a country where people can be "disappeared" for disrupting the status quo.

How can you distinguish between peace and paralysis? Thumbs way up for the courage of one man bucking the system, but I find it difficult to believe that the relative "peacefulness" of that region is due to religious conformity.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Invisiblespud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 44,410
Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5739128 - 06/11/06 08:52 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

As an atheist, I'd say they are extremely successful, efficient individuals. It was a belief I've held my entire life, being an agnostic.

I no longer doubt the existence of divinity, so needless to say I currently hold a varying view.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Deviate]
    #5739129 - 06/11/06 08:52 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

spud said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

spud said:
The claim that victims of conspiracy or sacrifice is a sign of either weakness or stupidity is just absurd.

I can list numerous prodigies who have been the victim of conspiracy, and have paid the price of their life for it.




They are prodigies in the humanistic worldview, but from evolutionary point of view they are idiots for not using their talent for their own gain instead of helping the competition.





There is no evolutionary point of view. There is no intent with evolution. Evolution is random, it has no intent. There is no right. There is no wrong. You are personifying a completely inanimate, unconscious event. Same fallacy as those who try to argue Social Darwinism. There is no systematic point of reference.




yes, evolution has no intent, and is random, but the outcome of the struggles shows what kind of behaviour is positive for survival, and what kind is not. Obviously if you get killed or die of hunger, you did something wrong.




not according to timothy leary, he believed evolution had direction and purpose. how can we be certaine evolution is completely random?




Are you suggesting there is an unknown force at work that drives it into a certain direction?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Invisiblespud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 44,410
Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Deviate]
    #5739138 - 06/11/06 08:53 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:


not according to timothy leary, he believed evolution had direction and purpose. how can we be certaine evolution is completely random?




One could start by researching more creditable authorities on topic than Leary :lol:


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Silversoul]
    #5739145 - 06/11/06 08:54 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)



But I dare say that the right-hand path has greater potential for good, by virtue of the fact that it inherently involves regard for others.

There you go again.

The left had path has regard for others. It just acknowledges the value of the self.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (06/11/06 08:56 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Icelander]
    #5739150 - 06/11/06 08:55 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
There you go again.

The left had path has regard for others. It just acknowledges the value of the self.



Sorry, but that is not the left-hand path. The left-hand path is one where self-glorification is the highest goal. One may decide not to interfere with others, but acts of altruism are discouraged.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineDeviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5739192 - 06/11/06 09:07 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

spud said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:

spud said:
The claim that victims of conspiracy or sacrifice is a sign of either weakness or stupidity is just absurd.

I can list numerous prodigies who have been the victim of conspiracy, and have paid the price of their life for it.




They are prodigies in the humanistic worldview, but from evolutionary point of view they are idiots for not using their talent for their own gain instead of helping the competition.





There is no evolutionary point of view. There is no intent with evolution. Evolution is random, it has no intent. There is no right. There is no wrong. You are personifying a completely inanimate, unconscious event. Same fallacy as those who try to argue Social Darwinism. There is no systematic point of reference.




yes, evolution has no intent, and is random, but the outcome of the struggles shows what kind of behaviour is positive for survival, and what kind is not. Obviously if you get killed or die of hunger, you did something wrong.




not according to timothy leary, he believed evolution had direction and purpose. how can we be certaine evolution is completely random?




Are you suggesting there is an unknown force at work that drives it into a certain direction?




i'm asking how we know that it has no direction.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Silversoul]
    #5739203 - 06/11/06 09:10 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Incorrect. Acts which aid others are not discouraged, but they are performed with full knowledge of the ultimate self-serving nature of any desired act. If your desire is to help others, then service will provide intrinsic rewards.

More on this:

Quote:

Right-Hand Path religions are usually said to share the following properties:

* Belief in a higher power, such as a deity.

* Obedience to the will of the higher power.

* The belief that there is an absolute definition for good and evil that applies to everyone.

* Esoteric belief in the existence of a supernatural mechanism, such as Karma, divine retribution, or Threefold Law, which causes the moral decisions that an individual makes to be reciprocated upon himself.

* The ultimate goal of having the individual consciousness be absorbed into a greater or cosmic whole.


Left-Hand Path religions are usually said to share the following properties:

* The belief that some people can, by attaining spiritual insight, themselves become akin to gods.

* The belief that selfless acts do not exist. Fulfilling one's desire is seen as a selfish act bringing the person satisfaction from accomplishing what they want. Altruism is seen as a myth created by conventional religions.

* An exoteric understanding of concepts such as karma, divine retribution, or Threefold Law, resulting in fluid, rather than strict, codes of morality.

* The belief that the individual self is preeminent, and that all decisions should be made with the goal of cultivating the self (though not the ego).

* The belief that each individual is responsible for his/her own happiness, and that no external force will provide salvation to reward actions which do not advance one's happiness in this life.

* The belief that the forces of the universe can be bent to one's personal will by magical means, and that power gained in such a manner is an aid to enlightenment.

* An agnostic view of the existence of deities, or a Platonic view of deities as "first-forms." If deity is perceived as having a consciousness, then all relationships with deity are in the form of a partnership, an alliance which does not require subservience. The prideful deity likes prideful partners.





Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Deviate]
    #5739204 - 06/11/06 09:10 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Well obviously it has a direction due to laws of cause and effect, and there is only one way it can end, but it doesn't have to be some kind of climax with ultra smart beings or whatever, it could simply be death of all life


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Silversoul]
    #5739205 - 06/11/06 09:11 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
There you go again.

The left had path has regard for others. It just acknowledges the value of the self.



Sorry, but that is not the left-hand path. The left-hand path is one where self-glorification is the highest goal. One may decide not to interfere with others, but acts of altruism are discouraged.




I'd like to see some proof of this please. As far as I know in tantra no act of altruism is discouraged.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (06/11/06 09:12 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Icelander]
    #5739223 - 06/11/06 09:17 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Actually, tantra itself may be divided into "right-hand/left-hand" practices:

Quote:

Tantra, which in its earliest written form was a distinctly iconoclastic, private, and esoteric practice, evolved into a number of respected, exoteric orders (sampradaya).

It is convenient, although somewhat false, to group the orders into two categories: left-handed and right-handed.

Left-handed tantras (vaama maarg) incorporate five sacraments (pancamakarapuja) of fish, meat, parched grain, wine and sexual intercourse into ritual practice.

Right-handed tantras (dakshin maarg), on the other hand, advocate the visualization of these antinomian practices.




Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Veritas]
    #5739233 - 06/11/06 09:19 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

And as to the question I posted. Is there a difference?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineDeviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5739239 - 06/11/06 09:20 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Well obviously it has a direction due to laws of cause and effect, and there is only one way it can end, but it doesn't have to be some kind of climax with ultra smart beings or whatever, it could simply be death of all life




or it could be utlra smart beings. for instance, timothy leary believed evolution was headed towards advanced levels of consciousness and space migration. he believed we already had future circuits in our brains that were meant to work in a zero gravity environment and that these circuits could be activated by certain drugs or spiritual exercises. obviously he saw evolution as something more than the mere process of natural selection. now i am not saying i agree with this, it's a pretty far out idea. but i think its certainly possible.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Deviate]
    #5739247 - 06/11/06 09:23 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
Well obviously it has a direction due to laws of cause and effect, and there is only one way it can end, but it doesn't have to be some kind of climax with ultra smart beings or whatever, it could simply be death of all life




or it could be utlra smart beings. for instance, timothy leary believed evolution was headed towards advanced levels of consciousness and space migration. he believed we already had future circuits in our brains that were meant to work in a zero gravity environment and that these circuits could be activated by certain drugs or spiritual exercises. obviously he saw evolution as something more than the mere process of natural selection. now i am not saying i agree with this, it's a pretty far out idea. but i think its certainly possible.




I know what he believed.

What if a meteor fell down and destroyed all life on earth? Then the course of evolution would be death of all life


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleFreedomFight
Strange

Registered: 07/03/05
Posts: 427
Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Diploid]
    #5739254 - 06/11/06 09:26 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I must argue against those who believe in this "Satanist" view of raping your neighbor and gluttony (which you may call "a birth-right of self-indulgence"). Many of you argue that this ultra-competitive nature is our "true" human nature by the observation of other animals. I just want to say that you are simply wrong. If you look at the most evolved species, it appears that "herd" mentality which incorporates reciprocal altruism is the most beneficial trait. Humans must have incorporated this early on which lead to our tribes and eventual cities. You simply can't have a large and dense society that is based around values held in the first post.

Once human precursors started to tribe up and help the weak survive we may have slowly devolved into our current state. Now in our current state we are much less physically fit for raw combat but our brains have continued to develop and we are very far ahead as far as superiority of the species and their ability to survive. This is evident because the single species of human has spread to virtually every area on this planet, and we do it without much instinct or superior strength. In fact, we can survive anywhere because we work as a team and hold many of the loving values inherent in our most popular religions.

In a society where the majority of inhabitants followed this "Satanist" view point there would be no time for developing medicine, weapons, or anything beyond the basic need to defend and offend everyone around you. What incentive would you have to create medicine if you were not sick?

I am sure throughout history this "Satanist" world view has leaked into a few minds but the reason why it isn't a very popular religion/philosophy is because it is weak. It has been proven through survival of the fittest to hold inferior societal beliefs than those of love and altruism. That's why there are so many more Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Islamics, and other religions that believe in spreading less self-centered values. It is not because these people are herded mindlessly, it is because this type of behavior is more conducive to societal advancement and thus a more deeply-rooted belief in many of our cultures and even in our brain.

Go against the grain as a Satanist and you will continually, naturally, and slowly be pulled apart from the the rest of human advancement here on Earth.


--------------------
I do not grow anything illegal.
I do not sell anything.
I am, however, a very curious individual.
I also try to be helpful.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Icelander]
    #5739264 - 06/11/06 09:28 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Both "paths" in Tantra practice have the same destination: enlightenment. There is no tradition in Tantra which advises practitioners to refrain from serving others.

As to the more general Left-hand Path, a practitioner would help others if it fulfilled their natural desire for service. They would not do so out of a sense of obligation or a desire to be holy.


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: FreedomFight]
    #5739271 - 06/11/06 09:29 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

FreedomFight said:
Many of you argue that this ultra-competitive nature is our "true" human nature by the observation of other animals.




I'm not, I'm just playing a devils advocate and trying to show how nasty darvinism is so that people know what they are getting onvolved in


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: North Spore Injection Grain Bag, North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Satan worship & Human Sacrifice
( 1 2 all )
Ellis Dee 4,709 35 02/08/02 01:07 PM
by insectvhore
* The existance of Satan and Hell (a debate) Spiffy 1,825 10 05/05/03 01:39 AM
by Deiymiyan
* Satanism urteno 1,482 11 10/11/02 09:23 PM
by postalboy
* The Satanic Bible
( 1 2 all )
Shroomalicious 2,995 26 04/09/10 06:55 AM
by pong
* satanic puzzle chodamunky 1,034 10 03/02/03 01:59 PM
by falcon
* Where do Satanists go when they die?
( 1 2 all )
The Crow 10,097 33 07/06/07 10:59 PM
by mytymyc
* Satan on War 3eyedgod 1,208 13 12/07/02 09:06 PM
by FreakQlibrium
* christains? buddist? catholics? satanist? athiest?
( 1 2 3 4 all )
leturheadread 5,832 64 03/23/08 06:04 PM
by spacemonkey69

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
11,327 topic views. 0 members, 4 guests and 4 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Print Topic | ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2022 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.042 seconds spending 0.012 seconds on 19 queries.