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capliberty
Stranger


Registered: 04/23/06
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Silversoul]
#5738426 - 06/11/06 03:45 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yeah those models aren't designed around human lust and self serving pleasure such as satanism
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: MushmanTheManic]
#5738429 - 06/11/06 03:45 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Adopting dogma you like rather than dogma you dislike... Bravo!
Not adopting, simply stating to invite debate.
Maybe I should add that to my sig?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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OldWoodSpecter
waiting


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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: capliberty]
#5738436 - 06/11/06 03:49 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
capliberty said: Yeah those models aren't designed around human lust and self serving pleasure such as satanism
Yes they are not. But the question is why not?
These humanists, are romantics who are afraid of the implications of the such ideas of spirituality, yet don't have the guts to look their fellow animal in the face and see their nature. It's like living between two worlds.
Why on earth should chimps care about a stranger instead of take all the bannanas from him?
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Diploid]
#5738445 - 06/11/06 03:51 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Why does it make any more sense?
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: MushmanTheManic]
#5738455 - 06/11/06 03:54 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Why does it make any more sense?
Well, take the 10 commandments, for example. Several of them tell us to go against human nature whereas from what I've read so far, LaVeyan Satanism tells us to acknowledge human nature.
The latter makes comparatively more sense to me.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
#5738456 - 06/11/06 03:55 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Why on earth should chimps care about a stranger instead of take all the bannanas from him?
Inclusive fitness, altruism, etc.
Edited by MushmanTheManic (06/11/06 03:55 PM)
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: MushmanTheManic]
#5738470 - 06/11/06 03:59 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Although I do not argue against altruism, it is selfishness that has evolved us above all other creatures on Earth, not altruism.
That said, human altruism is too new to know to what heights (or depths) it may eventually take us.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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OldWoodSpecter
waiting


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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: MushmanTheManic]
#5738494 - 06/11/06 04:05 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
MushmanTheManic said:
Quote:
Why on earth should chimps care about a stranger instead of take all the bannanas from him?
Inclusive fitness, altruism, etc.
and what's the purpuse of altruism?
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Diploid]
#5738499 - 06/11/06 04:06 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Whether you prefer "human nature" to be adhered to or view it as something to be detach from (or overcome) seems entirely subjective. I don't see how the first or the latter makes any more sense, objectively.
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
#5738505 - 06/11/06 04:06 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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The purpose of altruism is survival. (To clear things up: by "altruism" I mean "reciprocal altruism".)
Edited by MushmanTheManic (06/11/06 04:09 PM)
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: MushmanTheManic]
#5738528 - 06/11/06 04:11 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Whether you prefer "human nature" to be adhered to or view it as something to be detach from (or overcome) seems entirely subjective. I don't see how the first or the latter makes any more sense, objectively.
I see no benefit whatever in a path that makes me strive to be something I am not or to deny something that I am.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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OldWoodSpecter
waiting


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Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: MushmanTheManic]
#5738623 - 06/11/06 04:35 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
MushmanTheManic said: The purpose of altruism is survival. (To clear things up: by "altruism" I mean "reciprocal altruism".)
So you have two chimps, one weak and sick, other strong and large. Both are hungry
Reciprocal altruism makes them both share some food. Both survive. The weak one too, and give birth to some more weak chimps.
Then lions come and kill half of the chimp population who are children of the weak chimp
On the other hand you have extreme individualism. The strong chimp stole all of the food the weak one had, and ate it all. The weak one died. The strong one had many children, and the chimps escaped the confrontation with the lion alive
Again, how did altruism help survival of the chimps?
The only thing that really helps survival of the species is internal natural selection, confrontations, wars, and conflicts.
If the stupid humans don't die of hunger before they multiply (due to altruism of the leading ones), then how will humanity get rid of their stupid genes?
That's why humanism and altruism are self-cripling worldviews in an atheistic world.
But then, I believe in god, so I don't believe in survival
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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spud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 44,410
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
#5738650 - 06/11/06 04:42 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Extreme individualism leads to several absurdities. For example, it would be logical to kill an innocent, healthy being if 2 sickly people needed his organs in order to survive.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: spud]
#5738651 - 06/11/06 04:43 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
spud said:
Quote:
Veritas said:
My 2 cents on Satanism:
I don't worship any supernatural beings, whether they live in the sky or underground.
You are a victim of the Christian smear campaign. Many non-Satanists, especially Christians, infer that Satanists worship a supernatural, evil entity called "Satan" and advocate evil. The Church of Satan (the most organized Satanic group on earth) has stated several times that they do not believe in some being named "Satan", and use his name purely symbolically in relation to human values they deem as wrong.
Satanism is more of a philosophical movement than anything. Do not confuse theistic Satanism to LaVeyans Satanism, the much more common form of Satanism.
Yes, I know. Thus the .
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Icelander
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Silversoul]
#5738654 - 06/11/06 04:43 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Silversoul said: My main beef with Satanism is the same as my beef with Objectivism: namely, that it glorifies selfishness and the ego. This is sometimes referred to as the left-hand path, where the individual acts as their own personal god, seeking self-indulgence and self-glorification. The right-hand path, on the other hand, values altruism and humility. I've walked the right-hand path long before I became a Christian, and still consider it to be the more spiritually mature path.
I really don't and never have seen WTF you are talking about. I think you have it backwards and can't see it.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OldWoodSpecter
waiting


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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: spud]
#5738656 - 06/11/06 04:44 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
spud said: Extreme individualism leads to several absurdities. For example, it would be logical to kill an innocent, healthy being if 2 sickly people needed his organs in order to survive.
If he is weak or stupid enough to alow that to happen, then they deserve to survive more than him.
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


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Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Diploid]
#5738828 - 06/11/06 05:29 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Out of curiosity, who participating in this thread read the post on the Lucifer rebellion in MR&P. I believe it was taken from the book called The Keys of Enoch(not sure). Anyway, it covers Luciferian ideology and what he is rebelling against, anything done out of an idea of a supreme creator and ideologies ascribed to it that no one can prove.
If you didn't read it, you may want too. It's an interesting perspective. In many cases, like with this, the lines blur and yet the question always is, who's side are you on?
Take note of one thing if you read that article. Micheal always concedes to, respect and honor the Free will of others. I'd like to discuss that one here some time. That's a tough one understand, though some times I do.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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Huehuecoyotl
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Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Diploid]
#5738844 - 06/11/06 05:35 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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My complaint with Satanism is that instead of Jesus you got Satan....you got to follow somebody. Away with these empty gurus. "Organized religion" is an oxymoron. Be your own Jesus...be your own Satan...be your own God ruler and master.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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spud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 44,410
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
#5738851 - 06/11/06 05:36 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:
spud said: Extreme individualism leads to several absurdities. For example, it would be logical to kill an innocent, healthy being if 2 sickly people needed his organs in order to survive.
If he is weak or stupid enough to alow that to happen, then they deserve to survive more than him.
Hah, I hope you are joking.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Satanism - Mostly Makes Sense To Me [Re: Icelander]
#5738857 - 06/11/06 05:39 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: I really don't and never have seen WTF you are talking about. I think you have it backwards and can't see it.
huh?
--------------------
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