Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   OlympusMyco.com Olympus Myco Bulk Substrate   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
Invisiblecarbonhoots
old hand

Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 1,351
Loc: BC Canada
The American dream is over
    #5734642 - 06/10/06 03:40 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

There are now 37 million Americans living in poverty, and at 12.7 percent of the population, it is the highest percentage in the developed world.

Wake up: the American Dream is over

Even America's richest think they're getting too many tax breaks from a government determined to keep the poor in their place. As poverty in the US grows, Paul Harris wonders what happened to the Land of Opportunity

Thursday June 8, 2006
The Observer


There is a common response to America among foreign writers: the USA is a land of extremes where the best of things are just as easily found as the worst.
This is a cliché. But it is often hard to argue with when surveying America's political and cultural landscape. America has some of the worst urban sprawl in the world and also the most beautiful and well-protected wildernesses. Its politics is awash with lobbyist inspired corruption. Yet passionate political engagement among millions of Americans puts many other countries to shame.

Culturally American TV can plunge depths that are hard to imagine. Yet at the same time commercial channels such as HBO produce the best dramas, documentaries and comedies in the world. Its media boasts celebrity tabloids including People and the National Enquirer, yet the New Yorker and Harpers and Atlantic Monthly are examples of its magazines which invest in quality journalism that no publication in Britain can match.
So in this land of black and white, we should not be too surprised to find some of the biggest gaps between rich and poor in the world. Such a yawning chasm is just the American Way, it would seem. Besides, the American Dream offers a way out to everyone. All someone has to do is work hard and climb the ladder towards the top. No class system or government stands in the way.

Sadly, this old argument is no longer true. Over the past few decades there has been a fundamental shift in the structure of the American economy. The gap between rich and poor has widened and widened. As it does so, the ability to cross that gap gets smaller and smaller. This is far from business as usual but there seems little chance of it stopping, not least because it appears to be government policy.

Over the past 25 years the median US family income has gone up 18 percent. For the top one percent, however, it has gone up 200 percent. A quarter of a century ago the top fifth of Americans had an average income 6.7 times that of the bottom fifth. Now it is 9.8 times.

Inequalities have grown worse in different regions. In California, home to both Beverly Hills and the gang-ridden slums of Compton, incomes for lower class families have fallen by four percent since 1969. For upper class families they have risen 41 percent.

This has led to an economy hugely warped in favour of a small slice of very rich Americans. The wealthiest one percent of households now control a third of the national wealth. The wealthiest 10 percent control two-thirds of it. This is a society that is splitting down the middle and it has taken place against a backdrop of economic growth.

Between 1980 and 2004 America's GDP went up by almost two-thirds. But instead of making everyone better off, it has made only a part of the country wealthier, as another part slips ever more into the black hole of the working poor. There are now 37 million Americans living in poverty, and at 12.7 percent of the population, it is the highest percentage in the developed world.

Yet the tax burden on America's rich is falling, not growing. The top 0.01 percent of households has seen their tax bite fall by a full 25 percentage points since 1980. That was when 'trickle down' economics began, arguing that the rich spending more would benefit everyone as a whole. But America's poor have simply been getting poorer: clearly that theory has not worked in reality.

And still the American government is set on tax breaks for the rich. Bush's first-term tax cuts notoriously benefited the upper strata of American taxpayers. So much so that even Warren Buffet, the second richest man in the world who benefited to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars, has said the tax cuts 'scream of injustice'. As head of a hugely successful investment firm, it is hard to paint Buffet as a lefty liberal who hates Wall Street (though, bizarrely, some conservatives do try).

Still the tax cuts go on. This week one of the main political debates in Washington has been about scrapping the 'estate tax' whereby those who inherit large amounts from their relatives will be taxed on it. This overwhelmingly affects the wealthy. The estate tax is already set so high ($4m) that only one in 200 estates pay any tax at all when they are inherited. Unlike the UK's inheritance tax, which affects more and more Britons as house prices increase, this is not a problem faced by Joe and Jennifer Public.

Yet the White House and many politicians, overwhelmingly Republican, want to get rid of it. The lobbying campaign against it has been financed mostly by 18 business dynasties, including the family that owns WalMart. At the same time the Bush administration has sanctioned millions of dollars of cuts to Medicare, Medicaid and the education budget as part of a measure aimed at reducing the spiraling deficit. This is, frankly, obscene.

The effect of all this has been to scotch that long-cherished notion of the American Dream: that honest toil is enough to reap the rewards and let even the poorest join the middle class, or maybe even strike it rich. A survey last year showed that such economic mobility (a measure of those people trying to make the Dream come true) was lower in America than Canada, Germany, Norway, Denmark, Sweden and Finland. In fact, the only country doing as bad as America was Britain (food for thought, there).

Now this is not some argument against capitalism. Inequality is inevitable. It is a good thing. People need incentives. People need competition. People need markets. Some people will always be poor. Others deserve to be rich. But at the moment it looks like the rules of the game are being fixed in America in favour of the wealthy. The gap between rich and poor will only get wider. That is very dangerous.

Don't just take my word for it. Take Buffet's. After all he doesn't have anything to gain from criticising current policy. In fact he has hundreds of millions of dollars to lose. 'If class warfare is being waged in America,' he has written 'My class is clearly winning.' When even the rich are starting to think they are getting too many tax cuts, then you know something has gone very wrong.


--------------------
  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES

Edited by carbonhoots (06/10/06 03:56 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineexclusive58
illegal alien

Registered: 04/16/04
Posts: 2,146
Last seen: 6 years, 2 months
Re: The American dream is over [Re: carbonhoots]
    #5740663 - 06/12/06 03:10 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

hmmm, interesting read.

"There is a common response to America among foreign writers: the USA is a land of extremes where the best of things are just as easily found as the worst."

I think this is very true, but I don't know if its a good thing or if its a bad thing...

IMO, a quality that Americans have that I've greatly admired is that they're able to acknowledge when they've been wrong about something, and take the necessary measures to fix their errors and get back on the right track.

In France, that quality is nowhere to be seen. For example, recently the lawmakers have been trying to force the educational textbooks to include some chapters about the positive effect of colonisation! These dinosaurs still don't see that colonisation has been a massive catastrophe!

But I'm not sure if Americans still withold this quality, there are big challenges to face and high obstacles to jump for this country. Time will tell I guess... I cross my fingers and hope that they will do what's right.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCosmic_Dragon
Stranger
Female
Registered: 03/04/06
Posts: 26
Loc: New Brunswick
Last seen: 17 years, 2 months
Re: The American dream is over [Re: exclusive58]
    #5740837 - 06/12/06 06:47 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Bah...it all makes me want to vomit in disgust....

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinededjam
Electro Penguin
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 2,139
Loc: Moralton, Statesota
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: The American dream is over [Re: Cosmic_Dragon]
    #5740848 - 06/12/06 07:02 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

The guardian writing about the american dream...lol...no bias at all!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinethunderbunny
Stranger
Registered: 06/12/06
Posts: 2
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
Re: The American dream is over [Re: carbonhoots]
    #5740862 - 06/12/06 07:26 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

BULLCRAP-THE AMERICAN DREAM IS ALIVE AND WELL!!!!!

YOUR 12% OF THE POPULATION IN POVERTY FIGURE--WELL, MOST OF THOSE WORKING POOR ARE ILLEGAL ALIENS AND SHOULD NOT EVEN BE IN OUR COUNTRY

THE AMERICAN DREAM WILL END WHEN THE BORDERS ARE OPENED WIDE BY DEMOCRAT LIBERAL FOOLS SUCH AS YOURSELF

LITTLE SNOT NOSED RAPIST BILLY CLINTON WAS THE ONE WHO STARTED THIS MASS IMMIGRATION AND IGNORANCE OF THE FEDERAL IMMIGRATION LAWS

YOU QUOTE ONE, ONE , ONE RICH GUY WHO SAYS THAT HE DOESNT WANT THE TAX BREAKS--WHAT ABOUT THE MILLIONS OF OTHERS WHO DO WANT AND NEED THE TAX BREAKS AND THE TAX CUTS

TYPICAL LIBERAL JEALOUSY AND ENVY--YOU ARE TOO STONED OR TOO LAZY TO ACCOMPLISH ANYTHING SO YOU BLAME THE GOVERNMENT AND TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH FOR THE FACT THAT YOU ARE A LOSER

HOW IS A RICH GUY GETTING SOME OF HIS CONFISCATED MONEY BACK FROM THE GOVERNMENT GOING TO AFFECT YOU IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM--THAT IS, UNLESS YOU ARE A WELFARE SUCKING LOSER WHO WANTS THE GOVERNMENT TO PAY HIS WAY!!!!!

I REALLY WANT AN ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION--HOW IS THE RETURN OF A RICH GUYS MONEY GOING TO MAKE YOU POORER

GIMME GIMME GIMME WHERES MY WELFARE CHECK?? WHERES MY FOOD STAMPS---I CANT MAKE IT IN AMERICA UNLESS THE RICH ARE BEING TAXED AT CONFISCATORY RATES!!!!! I WANT THE MONEY THAT THAT GUY EARNED, AFTER WORKING HIS ASS OFF FOR 20 OR 30 YEARS--ITS JUST EASY MONEY--TAKE IT FROM HIM AND GIVE IT TO ME--THE MUSHROOM WELFARE LOSER!!!!!!!!!!

THE THUNDERBUNNNY

PS YOU TALK ABOUT INCOME DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE RICH AND THE POOR IN THE US OF A BEING THE WORST IN THE WORLD???? I GUESS YOU HAVENT VISITED INDIA OR PAKISTAN LATELY HUH MUSHROOM LOSER

MOREL SEASON IS JUST ABOUT OVER, BUT MAYBE YOU CAN JUST GET "LUCKY" LIKE YOU THINK THE RICH IN THE USA ARE, AND GO OUT AND FIND A MILLION POUNDS OR SO AND SELL THEM FOR $20 A POUND AND THEN PAY ALL OF YOUR PROFITS TO THE US GOVERNMENT, DUE TO THE FACT THAT YOUR HARD WORK HUNTING THE MUSHROOMS FOR DAYS AND WEEKS ON END IS REALLY JUST LUCK AND YOU DONT REALLLY DESERVE THAT MONEY ANYWAY!!!

HEY PAL, HOW MUCH DO YOU MAKE IN A YEAR?? IF ITS MORE THA I EARN THEN I WANT A CUT OF YOUR PAYCHECK, BECAUSE ITS JUST NOT FAIR, AND AFTER ALL, YOU MUST BE DOING SOMETHING ILLEGAL OR IMMORAL IN ORDER TO EARN MORE MONEY THAN I DO--I AM JEALOUS AND I WANT THE FEDERAL MARSHALLS TO CONFISCATE YOUR WEALTH AND GIVE IT ALL TO ME--THATS SO I CAN BE JUST LIKE YOU--LAY AROUND AND COMPLAIN ALL DAY AND GET NOWHERE

THE US IS THE GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD-BAR NONE!

IF YOU DONT LIKE IT MOVE TO CUBA--WEALTH IS DISTRIBUTED THERE JUST THE WAY THAT YOU WANT IT DISTRIBUTED IN THE UNITED ATSTES--EVERYONE HAS THE SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY AND GOODS

EXCEPT FOR FIDEL CASTRO--HE IS ESTIMATED TO BE THE 5TH RICHEST MAN IN THE WORLD--NOW UNDER YTOUR PERFECT COMMUNIST SYSTEM ALL WEALTH IS DISTRIBUTED EQUALLY--HOW DID CASTRO AMASS A FORTUNE OF SOMETHING LIKE 5 BILLION $ ??????? BY THE WAY--FIDEL IS THE TOAST OF THE AMERICAN LIBERAL ELITIST SCENE

YOUR PROBLEM IS THAT YOU ARE JEALOUS AND ENVIOUS OF HARD WORK---GO DO SOME!!!!!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesa_mull
Seeker ofKnowledge
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/24/06
Posts: 144
Loc: IO
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
Re: The American dream is over [Re: thunderbunny]
    #5740883 - 06/12/06 07:45 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

thunderbunny said:

THE US IS THE GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD-BAR NONE!





Nothing can stay on top forever. its a hopless dream. and things are falling. you tring to find a way to blam the other half of ur contry for it's fall. when what u don't understand is that working together is what ur country was built on and has lost.

It seems that you know deep down the contry is losing it's grips, and have to keep pointing a liberals.

the people on a sinking ship do no good pointing fingers at eachother and arguing. when all that is need to save you is working to gether.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: The American dream is over [Re: thunderbunny]
    #5740980 - 06/12/06 08:45 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Woah, turn your caps off.  Other than that...great post!  :lol:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinewilshire
free radical
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
Re: The American dream is over [Re: carbonhoots]
    #5741064 - 06/12/06 09:19 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

In California, home to both Beverly Hills and the gang-ridden slums of Compton, incomes for lower class families have fallen by four percent since 1969.

this seems to be the only support given in the article for the author's assertion that the poor in america are getting poorer. that's pretty weak.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: The American dream is over [Re: dedjam]
    #5741402 - 06/12/06 11:31 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

The guardian writing about the american dream...lol...no bias at all!

Why do say that? Because you think the Guardian is somehow left-wing?

The reality is the Guardian has supported every war Blair has ever launched and were recently warned for blatantly misrepresenting and smearing Chomsky after an interview with him.

They may not be Fox news but they sure as hell are nowhere near being on the left.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinewilshire
free radical
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
Loc: SE PA
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
Re: The American dream is over [Re: Alex213]
    #5741453 - 06/12/06 11:44 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

the guardian is "nowhere near being on the left"?

:rofl2:


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDavid_vs_Goliath
Informer
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/01/06
Posts: 208
Loc: Chicago
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
Re: The American dream is over [Re: wilshire]
    #5741534 - 06/12/06 12:07 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

"YOU QUOTE ONE, ONE , ONE RICH GUY WHO SAYS THAT HE DOESNT WANT THE TAX BREAKS--WHAT ABOUT THE MILLIONS OF OTHERS WHO DO WANT AND NEED THE TAX BREAKS AND THE TAX CUTS"

dumbest thing i have ever read. The millions of other rich men who need the tax breaks? are you on crack? If you have a million dollars you don't need the tax break.


--------------------
"People living deeply have no fear of death."
"Love the animals, love the plants, love everything. If you love everything, you will perceive the divine mystery in things. Once you perceive it, you will begin to comprehend it better every day. And you will come at last to love the whole world with an all-embracing love."
"Our problems are man-made, therefore they may be solved by man. No problem of human destiny is beyond human beings."

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: The American dream is over [Re: wilshire]
    #5741892 - 06/12/06 01:46 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

wilshire said:
the guardian is "nowhere near being on the left"?

:rofl2:



Quoted for Truth


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRosettaStoned
Stranger

Registered: 05/29/06
Posts: 540
Loc: North America
Last seen: 16 years, 2 months
Re: The American dream is over [Re: David_vs_Goliath]
    #5741900 - 06/12/06 01:48 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

BILLY CLINTON WAS THE ONE WHO STARTED THIS MASS IMMIGRATION AND IGNORANCE OF THE FEDERAL IMMIGRATION LAWS





Didn't regan start that? Seems like I heard there was an amnesty bill that was passed in 1986. Also seems like NAFTA was in the works well before clinton. Or am I incorrect?


--------------------
"Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson

"Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: The American dream is over [Re: wilshire]
    #5742005 - 06/12/06 02:21 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

the guardian is "nowhere near being on the left"?


So you believe people that support every war Blair has ever launched and receive warnings for smearing Chomsky are on the left?

Can you explain how you reached such a ludicrous conclusion? :rolleyes:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: The American dream is over [Re: Alex213]
    #5742078 - 06/12/06 02:42 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Alex213 said:
support every war Blair has ever launched



evidence?

Quote:

and receive warnings for smearing Chomsky



see above


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePapaverS
Madmin Emeritus?

Registered: 06/01/02
Posts: 26,880
Loc: Radio Free Tibet!
Re: The American dream is over [Re: thunderbunny]
    #5743244 - 06/12/06 07:29 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Sir, please stop typing in all-caps. It's considered impolite on the internet. And frankly, it is harder to read and parse your text in all-caps, so it defeats your intended purpose of communication...

When in Rome, you know... :wink:


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledownforpot
Stranger
Male
Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 5,715
Re: The American dream is over [Re: thunderbunny]
    #5744316 - 06/12/06 11:03 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

thunderbunny said:


THE AMERICAN DREAM WILL END WHEN THE BORDERS ARE OPENED WIDE BY DEMOCRAT LIBERAL FOOLS SUCH AS YOURSELF





The Borders were open since the begining of America.

Bill Clinton made a great economy and there was nothing to worry about. Then Bush hits the scene and WAM, everything goes to shit.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineViveka
refutation bias
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 4,061
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: The American dream is over [Re: downforpot]
    #5746330 - 06/13/06 04:12 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

RIGHT, CLINTON IS TO THANK FOR THE HARD WORK OF AMERICAN ENTREPENEURS? WHAT A LAUGH!!!

Sorry, I just felt like yelling for a minute. But seriously Clinton didn't make the economy. And you probably didn't notice but the DOW and especially the NASDAQ were plummeting hard while Clinton was still in office. It's quite silly to equate the state of the economy with the guy sitting in the white house. It's even sillier to blame one's own situation on a perceived class war. Take accountability for you own condition.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblezorbman
blarrr
Male

Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
Re: The American dream is over [Re: Viveka]
    #5746868 - 06/13/06 07:06 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

the DOW and especially the NASDAQ were plummeting hard while Clinton was still in office




Incorrect.

Both the Down and Nasdaq enjoyed historic runs during the Clinton years:





--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

Edited by zorbman (06/13/06 10:53 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleAlteredAgain
Visual Alchemist
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 11,181
Loc: Solar Circuit
Re: The American dream is over [Re: carbonhoots]
    #5746928 - 06/13/06 07:21 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

the last time i checked the american dream was what it always has been, a dream, a mere fantasy.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   OlympusMyco.com Olympus Myco Bulk Substrate   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* the new american dream...
( 1 2 3 all )
uki 1,699 42 06/25/04 05:22 PM
by BleaK
* The European dream AntiMeme 682 8 10/02/04 05:04 PM
by zappaisgod
* The Irony of Clinton's Medical Situation Ancalagon 849 2 09/09/04 03:49 PM
by Phred
* Land of the free? In your fucking dreams, prisoner. Evolving 643 2 05/27/04 05:19 PM
by afoaf
* Bush Support Among Arab Americans Tumbles
( 1 2 all )
Zahid 2,070 29 08/28/04 06:49 PM
by Zahid
* 1 in 6 Americans have no health coverage carbonhoots 1,190 18 10/06/03 02:49 PM
by Phred
* Bill Clinton: Our First Black President. Larrythescaryrex 1,744 16 09/26/09 05:24 AM
by kidaihuan
* Clinton calls terror a U.S. debt to past
( 1 2 all )
Ellis Dee 3,656 25 01/01/02 01:49 AM
by Ellis Dee

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil, ballsalsa
2,157 topic views. 3 members, 1 guests and 7 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.026 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 16 queries.