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 Food
---Beast---
Registered: 12/10/01
Posts: 390
Loc: Siberia
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
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 Are Quantum Mechanics applicable to the macrocosm? 
#573432 - 03/06/02 09:25 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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Scientists have said that photons,atoms and other assorted small things can exist in two places at once aswell as neither of the places and that when the small thing is observed it suddenly assumes only one of its posible states .
But I mean really - can it be said that the top card of a pack isnt any card aswell as being all the cards until you look at it ?
Are your lost keys nowhere and everywhere possible until you find them ?
I personally dont think that what seems to be going on on a microscopic scale indicates that similar counter-intuitive laws also affect larger physical objects.
But many scientists do - what do you think ?
BTW check this place for free porn - its soo cool:
http://www.thehun.com
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Food
---Beast---
Registered: 12/10/01
Posts: 390
Loc: Siberia
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
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 Re: Are Quantum Mechanics applicable to the macrocosm? [Re: Food]
#573495 - 03/08/02 02:15 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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Hmm the shroomery computer seems to think I posted that yesterday wheas I seem to think I posted it today ? ! ??
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--------mushworld.com-----More info than you can throw a stick at-
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 trendal
J♠
 
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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 Re: Are Quantum Mechanics applicable to the macrocosm? [Re: Food]
#573596 - 03/08/02 05:02 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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Ok, this is WAY off topic, but I'll answer it anyway.
You've got it wrong. Scientists don't think that quantum mechanics applies to anything on macroscopic scales. There's even a constant (called h-bar) in quantum mechanics that determines how "large" quantum effects can be. Because h-bar is very small (at least in our universe...) the counter-intuitive parts to quantum mechanics will probably not occur on macroscopic scales. I emphasized "probably" becase there is a calculatable chance that they will occur on macroscopically scales, but the chance is so small you would have to wait (on average) longer than the life of the unverse to observe it happen.
The examples of "lost keys nowhere and everywhere until you find them" do apply to macroscopic scales, but are more of an example of what happens on microscopic scales than a hard truth.
In practice: do you know that your keys aren't "everywhere" until you find them? Until you (or anyone/anything) actually observes where they are, it's not wrong to say that they are "everywhere".
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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Food
---Beast---
Registered: 12/10/01
Posts: 390
Loc: Siberia
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
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Re: Are Quantum Mechanics applicable to the macroc [Re: trendal]
#574547 - 03/09/02 08:34 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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Actually I am not wrong (methinks) - there is no consensus among scientists upon this subject .
Roger Penrose has recently devised an experiment to prove that size(no. of small particles) affects the ability of quantum mechanics to affect things - as their are many prominenet Quantum Physicists who currently beleive there all things obey these laws in the same way .
Read the latest New Scientist if you think I am crazy .
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--------mushworld.com-----More info than you can throw a stick at-
Edited by Food (03/09/02 08:40 PM)
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Are Quantum Mechanics applicable to the macroc [Re: Food]
#574786 - 03/10/02 04:14 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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"Roger Penrose has recently devised an experiment to prove that size(no. of small particles) affects the ability of quantum mechanics to affect things"
That's basically what I said. The probability for an act of "quantum weirdness" to effect any individual particle is relatively straightforward and depends on the value of h-bar. The same probability can still be applied to a collection of particles of arbitrary size (a human, for example) and is the product of the probabilities of each individual particle in the collection.
What I mean is, you can easily determine the probability that an electron (or any particle) will undergo quantum tunneling, and that probability happens to be not too small (you can expect to observe it when looking for it). The probability that I will undergo quantum tunneling is very small, because it would only happen if every particle in my body tunnelled instantaneously. If I knew how many particles were in my body, I could calculate the probability that I will suddenly dissapear, and then reappear in China.
You are completely right: all things obey the laws of quantum mechanics. But because quantum mechanics is based around the elementary particle, any probability must be based on the product of each particle's probability wave. In reality, quantum mechanics does not apply to macroscopic scales because of the vast number of individual particles in any macroscopic object.
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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Food
---Beast---
Registered: 12/10/01
Posts: 390
Loc: Siberia
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
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 Re: Are Quantum Mechanics applicable to the macroc [Re: trendal]
#575050 - 03/10/02 01:37 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well said.
Very well said infact .
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--------mushworld.com-----More info than you can throw a stick at-
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Are Quantum Mechanics applicable to the macroc [Re: Food]
#575051 - 03/10/02 01:39 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thanks :-)
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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gnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/29/99
Posts: 6,488
Loc: n. e. OH, USSA
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Re: Are Quantum Mechanics applicable to the macrocosm? [Re: Food]
#575595 - 03/11/02 06:08 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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see:
sarafatti & wolf _space, time, and beyond_
itzak bentov _stalking the wild pendulum_
also other stuff by fred alan wolf, gary zukav, fritjof capra, and some of them other wacky, wacky physicists...
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old enough to know better
not old enough to care
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Are Quantum Mechanics applicable to the macrocosm? [Re: gnrm23]
#575619 - 03/11/02 07:19 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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Gary Zukav's books such as "The Seat of the Soul" are full of New Age ramblings that have nothing to do with physics and have absolutely nothing to back his hypotheses up. He doesn't even state where this "knowledge" came from or how he accessed it.
Somehow a PhD in a hard science makes one an "expert" on the purpose of life.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Are Quantum Mechanics applicable to the macrocosm? [Re: Swami]
#575685 - 03/11/02 09:11 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'd reccommend the book "The Elegant Universe", by Brian Greene, for more reading on this subject.
Excellent book.
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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gnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/29/99
Posts: 6,488
Loc: n. e. OH, USSA
Last seen: 6 days, 3 hours
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Re: Are Quantum Mechanics applicable to the macrocosm? [Re: Swami]
#575871 - 03/11/02 12:50 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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yeah, physicists often seem to end up writing books on mind, consciousness, spirit...
(james watson, carl sagan, robert jastrow, several others...)
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old enough to know better
not old enough to care
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poopship
newbie
Registered: 02/26/02
Posts: 25
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Re: Are Quantum Mechanics applicable to the macrocosm? [Re: gnrm23]
#575882 - 03/11/02 01:04 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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Actually, Swami, Gary Zukav is no physicist, and he never claims to be. I've never read the seat of the soul, but i have read "The Dancing Wu Li Masters" which is basically an admittedly laymens attempt to bring the last 100 years of physics down to the level that just about anybody can understand. He goes through quantum theory and relativity and a handful of other things with no mathematics and explains them each about 10 times using different analogies and such for people who think and visualize things differently. very well written in my opinion, and very understandable. he does occasionally interject a little eastern philosophy (not much at all) and compares it to how phyics has been shaping for the century. I can't remember what his degree was in, not physics though, and it was from harvard. anyway, thats gary zukav for you, new age nut or not.
all aboard
poopship
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
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Re: Are Quantum Mechanics applicable to the macrocosm? [Re: poopship]
#576801 - 03/12/02 11:22 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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> laymens attempt to bring the last 100 years of physics down to the level that just about anybody can understand
The cartoon guide to physics sounds simliar to this, though probably a lot more basic. It is hard to go too in depth with cartoon...
It must be an interesting read... I can't imagine trying to explain quantum with everyday analogies... quantum is so counter-intuitive.
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Just another spore in the wind.
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oO_wombat_Oo
Stranger
Registered: 06/04/01
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Re: Are Quantum Mechanics applicable to the macrocosm? [Re: Food]
#579279 - 03/15/02 12:01 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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Pfffftttt. Thanks for the laugh.
This isn't a quantum physics forum, stop trying to big-note with your full-of crap hi-tech sounding headings.
I mean, seriously - if you really wanted an answer to that question, couldn't you think of somewhere more appropriate to ask it?
When it all comes down to it, what you're asking is something pretty "trippy" but it has only a very slight link (if any) to pure Quantum Mechanics.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 20 days, 6 hours
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Re: Are Quantum Mechanics applicable to the macrocosm? [Re: oO_wombat_Oo]
#579531 - 03/15/02 09:32 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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> couldn't you think of somewhere more appropriate to ask it?
Hmmm... general questions or advanced cultivation... -grin-
Sorry, couldn't resist.
peace
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Just another spore in the wind.
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Food
---Beast---
Registered: 12/10/01
Posts: 390
Loc: Siberia
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
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Re: Are Quantum Mechanics applicable to the macrocosm? [Re: oO_wombat_Oo]
#579532 - 03/15/02 09:34 AM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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What the fuck !
I honestly didnt realise at the time I posted it that this forum is actually for qeneral questions about tripping I was not talking about shrooms or tripping in any way whatsoever .
What is" trying to big-note" ? - Seriously I do not know (I am not american) .
I WAS really posing the quesion that was the title of the post .
Because I wanted the answer and thought that maybe you guys would be able to help me get it .
How is it possible to say that it is only slighty linked to quatum mechanics ?
To rephrase my question: Can objects the size of say keys perfom the same odd feats of existing in many places at once and none of the places in the same way as photons and single atoms seem to do in many experiments - and trendal gave me a good answer which shows that my question was actually kind of nonsensicle .
One more thing: You described my thread title as "full-of crap hi-tech sounding" - I used only the words I needed in order to get the question across . So what do you mean ?
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--------mushworld.com-----More info than you can throw a stick at-
Edited by Food (03/15/02 09:48 AM)
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oO_wombat_Oo
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Re: Are Quantum Mechanics applicable to the macrocosm? [Re: Food]
#579797 - 03/15/02 03:06 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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Forget about it. I don't mind your post being in "general questions".
I'm not American either, it's an Australianism. Don't worry about it though, I was just "busting your balls" (as they say in NY - or atleast as they say in those gangster films).
Talk about whatever you please, I was just being a jerk.
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Food
---Beast---
Registered: 12/10/01
Posts: 390
Loc: Siberia
Last seen: 17 years, 5 months
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Re: Are Quantum Mechanics applicable to the macrocosm? [Re: oO_wombat_Oo]
#579861 - 03/15/02 04:08 PM (21 years, 6 months ago) |
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Ok .
Thanks by the way .
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