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Cepheus
Balance



Registered: 04/19/06
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My friend has been arrested...
#5733479 - 06/10/06 08:27 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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For $1 million worth of computer fraud.
I've known this guy since 2000, we've done a lot of projects together, he's taught me a lot and I have taught him.
http://www.kxly.com/index.php?sect_rank=1&story_id=2897
http://www.freerobert.com
-------------------- "I only ever hope to reach equilibrium, in Nature's matrix, in line with the meridian" ~ Jehst
"...and I know that I have to keep breathing, as tomorrow the sun will rise, who knows what the tide will bring?" Free Spore Ring Europe Send any spare spore prints you might have and help the distribution
Open Source. Freedom. GNU/Linux Addicting is not a word.
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KidgardFromSRQ
Strange

Registered: 05/30/05
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Re: My friend has been arrested... [Re: Cepheus]
#5733486 - 06/10/06 08:31 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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no offence dude, but he kind of had that coming. stealing is not cool, even if it is from telemarketers.
-------------------- Be nice to people in general. Even if you don't like them.
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Nashbar
just strange.... on drugs

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 3,536
Loc: strawberry field
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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Re: My friend has been arrested... [Re: Cepheus]
#5733492 - 06/10/06 08:33 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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another low-life criminal... fuck him, hope he digs prison, should have thought about that before he hacked and stole.
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domite
Puppet

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Re: My friend has been arrested... [Re: Nashbar]
#5733531 - 06/10/06 08:47 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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If he really did steal to support his sick father, like that website claims he did, the situation , in my opinion, is more ambiguous than just "let the low life criminal rot in jail."
Either way, sorry to hear about your freind, and tell him to stay strong.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
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Re: My friend has been arrested... [Re: Cepheus]
#5733532 - 06/10/06 08:48 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
aManEater said: For $1 million worth of computer fraud.
so he should have bail money then, tell his sister that he will be heard when he gets to court
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
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Re: My friend has been arrested... [Re: domite]
#5733536 - 06/10/06 08:51 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
domite said: If he really did steal to support his sick father
then his father should be well taken care of with a million dollars, if you read more then you'll discover that him teaching others to commit the same crime shows he wasnt doing it just to support his ailing father
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Nashbar
just strange.... on drugs

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 3,536
Loc: strawberry field
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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Re: My friend has been arrested... [Re: domite]
#5733539 - 06/10/06 08:52 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
domite said: If he really did steal to support his sick father, like that website claims he did, the situation is more ambiguous
are you serious? he's one of those humanitarian hackers?
everybody has bills, I don't steal shit so I can afford food or beer.
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domite
Puppet

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Re: My friend has been arrested... [Re: Nashbar]
#5733548 - 06/10/06 08:58 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Okay, so it might not be applicable to this guy, but if somebody needed to steal to feed thier kids, would you still consider the theft immoral?
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
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Re: My friend has been arrested... [Re: domite]
#5733552 - 06/10/06 08:59 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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considering that theres other ways to feed the kids, yes, all they have to do is ask for help
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Nashbar
just strange.... on drugs

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 3,536
Loc: strawberry field
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Re: My friend has been arrested... [Re: domite]
#5733558 - 06/10/06 09:02 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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are you serious? Think about what you're saying.
hell yes, stealing for food is immoral, I've gone hungry more than I care to ever again. Never robbed anybody, but then again, I have a job, go to school, drink beer and do drugs.
Theft is immoral, of any kind. those telemarketers and that woman on street with a fat purse have kids to feed too.
How would you like it if the poor showed up at your house to take your shit?
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Maverick
Lover of Earwigs!



Registered: 12/18/05
Posts: 13,437
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Re: My friend has been arrested... [Re: Prisoner#1]
#5733561 - 06/10/06 09:03 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I think your friend should have screwed telemarketers over in a fashion that didn't involve money.
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Cepheus
Balance



Registered: 04/19/06
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Loc: the space between reality...
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Re: My friend has been arrested... [Re: Prisoner#1]
#5733566 - 06/10/06 09:06 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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...All he did was write a program... That the actual criminal paid 20k for.
Hacking is a media buzz word. He did not break into any computers to write this program.. all it did was route traffic.
I just don't see why providing the tools can be considered a crime. Its up to the user to decide wether they want to break the law with it. (has some relevance here - i.e spores)
-------------------- "I only ever hope to reach equilibrium, in Nature's matrix, in line with the meridian" ~ Jehst
"...and I know that I have to keep breathing, as tomorrow the sun will rise, who knows what the tide will bring?" Free Spore Ring Europe Send any spare spore prints you might have and help the distribution
Open Source. Freedom. GNU/Linux Addicting is not a word.
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Maverick
Lover of Earwigs!



Registered: 12/18/05
Posts: 13,437
Loc: Valleys of Willamette
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Re: My friend has been arrested... [Re: Nashbar]
#5733569 - 06/10/06 09:07 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Oh well I wouldn't steal for myself, but if I had a child who was starving, I'd steal. Though I don't think it'd be to the same immorality as stealing over a million dollars. *shrug*
To save a life of one dearest to me, I'd do anything.
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domite
Puppet

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Re: My friend has been arrested... [Re: Nashbar]
#5733570 - 06/10/06 09:08 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'm not really "saying" anything. Im just asking a question. One that I personally don't feel like I have a good answer for.
While I would defend my property from anyone trying to take it, I would also steal if I was unable to find any other way to feed myself or my family. I find it hard to fault sombody if they are doing what they need to to survive.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: My friend has been arrested... [Re: Cepheus]
#5733575 - 06/10/06 09:11 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
aManEater said: Hacking is a media buzz word. He did not break into any computers to write this program.. all it did was route traffic.
so all he did was phreaking... guess what, it's still a federal crime
Quote:
I just don't see why providing the tools can be considered a crime.
when the only purpose of a tool is to commit a crime, he takes the responsibility for it's misuse by not marketing it to people that are bonded and licensed to have such a tool, providing it to just anyone is his big mistake and since he did in fact profit by selling it to a criminal, knew the intent of this person he is in fact an accomplice during the fact
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Nashbar
just strange.... on drugs

Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 3,536
Loc: strawberry field
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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Re: My friend has been arrested... [Re: Maverick]
#5733579 - 06/10/06 09:15 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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well, if everyone steals what they think they need from everybody else, there would be issues, duh. Hence the legal system, laws aren't a new concept, neither is stealing.
The thief in this case is lucky he's in Spokane, WA in year 2006. Most other places or times and he'd be missing body parts or dead already.
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Maverick
Lover of Earwigs!



Registered: 12/18/05
Posts: 13,437
Loc: Valleys of Willamette
Last seen: 30 minutes, 33 seconds
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Re: My friend has been arrested... [Re: Prisoner#1]
#5733581 - 06/10/06 09:16 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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The phreaking he did is liable for a lawsuit and time punishable, but writing the program and distributing it shouldn't. That's like making a gun, then selling it to someone, them going out with your gun and assassinating someone, and it being your fault. You're not in control of what the person's going to do with the gun, or the tools in this case.
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Cepheus
Balance



Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 8,266
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Re: My friend has been arrested... [Re: Nashbar]
#5733584 - 06/10/06 09:17 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Nashbar said: well, if everyone steals what they think they need from everybody else, there would be issues, duh. Hence the legal system, laws aren't a new concept, neither is stealing.
The thief in this case is lucky he's in Spokane, WA in year 2006. Most other places or times and he'd be missing body parts or dead already.
he didn't steal anything though, he just provided the means for 20k.
-------------------- "I only ever hope to reach equilibrium, in Nature's matrix, in line with the meridian" ~ Jehst
"...and I know that I have to keep breathing, as tomorrow the sun will rise, who knows what the tide will bring?" Free Spore Ring Europe Send any spare spore prints you might have and help the distribution
Open Source. Freedom. GNU/Linux Addicting is not a word.
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Prisoner#1
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Registered: 01/22/03
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Re: My friend has been arrested... [Re: Maverick]
#5733590 - 06/10/06 09:27 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
DRTMaverick said: The phreaking he did is liable for a lawsuit and time punishable, but writing the program and distributing it shouldn't.
fphreaking is actualy a crime, not a civil offense
do a little search for Phil Zimmerman and PGP, all he did was say 'no' to the government regarding a back door in his encryption scheme, he served about 7 years for 'exportation of encryption scheme' when in fact he never exported anything, conspiracy holds a heavy penalty, what he did was in fact conspire to defraud.
Quote:
That's like making a gun, then selling it to someone, them going out with your gun and assassinating someone, and it being your fault. You're not in control of what the person's going to do with the gun, or the tools in this case.
making a firearm without a license is illegal, by manufacturing this weapon and selling it you have in fact comittted a crime that was compounded with additional crimes by another, again, you're tangled in the conspiracy, had you never produced the 'tools' you wouldnt be recieving the charges... see how it works?
it's kind of like robbing a liquor store, you pull the gun, the man behind the counter dies of a heart attack while you're robbing him, had you not robbed him he may have lived and you wouldnt be getting charged for murder and armed robbery
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domite
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Re: My friend has been arrested... [Re: Nashbar]
#5733593 - 06/10/06 09:28 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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"well, if everyone steals what they think they need from everybody else, there would be issues, duh. Hence the legal system, laws aren't a new concept, neither is stealing. "
If this was directed at my post, I feel like you are oversimplifying the question a little bit. To say the illegality of the act makes it immoral, thats a bit silly on a drug forum.
Don't get me wrong, I understand the difference between a law that protects people from eachother, and a law that "protects" people from themselves. I will even submit that an act of self preservation could be wrong, like if you somehow needed to take the lives of innocent people to survive.
But taking the property of an innocent person, when one's life depends on it seems different to me. Again, im conflicted on this. I understand why it would be considered immoral, but it seems justified to me.
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Prisoner#1
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Registered: 01/22/03
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Re: My friend has been arrested... [Re: Cepheus]
#5733594 - 06/10/06 09:29 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
aManEater said: he didn't steal anything though, he just provided the means for 20k.
he stole 'de facto' by making the program, it's at the least a conspiracy charge he wrote the code knowing what it's intended use was.
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Prisoner#1
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Re: My friend has been arrested... [Re: domite]
#5733599 - 06/10/06 09:33 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
domite said: But taking the property of an innocent person, when one's life depends on it seems different to me. Again, im conflicted on this. I understand why it would be considered immoral, but it seems justified to me.
theft is theft, the ends doesnt justify the means, it's simply another excuse to try and justify a wrong doing as right, shoplifting from a big company is theft but of course it's not going to hurt them because they make so much and wouldnt notice it anyway, they write it off and blah blah blah...
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Maverick
Lover of Earwigs!



Registered: 12/18/05
Posts: 13,437
Loc: Valleys of Willamette
Last seen: 30 minutes, 33 seconds
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Re: My friend has been arrested... [Re: Prisoner#1]
#5733600 - 06/10/06 09:35 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
DRTMaverick said: The phreaking he did is liable for a lawsuit and time punishable, but writing the program and distributing it shouldn't.
fphreaking is actualy a crime, not a civil offense
do a little search for Phil Zimmerman and PGP, all he did was say 'no' to the government regarding a back door in his encryption scheme, he served about 7 years for 'exportation of encryption scheme' when in fact he never exported anything, conspiracy holds a heavy penalty, what he did was in fact conspire to defraud.
Quote:
That's like making a gun, then selling it to someone, them going out with your gun and assassinating someone, and it being your fault. You're not in control of what the person's going to do with the gun, or the tools in this case.
making a firearm without a license is illegal, by manufacturing this weapon and selling it you have in fact comittted a crime that was compounded with additional crimes by another, again, you're tangled in the conspiracy, had you never produced the 'tools' you wouldnt be recieving the charges... see how it works?
it's kind of like robbing a liquor store, you pull the gun, the man behind the counter dies of a heart attack while you're robbing him, had you not robbed him he may have lived and you wouldnt be getting charged for murder and armed robbery
Aah, phreaking can't be targeted as civil either depending on who they're doing it to?
But you knew what I meant with the fire-arm thing. :P I'm unaware of any laws on the creation and distribution of programs like his, though I'm sure there are, I'm just not aware of it.
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Prisoner#1
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Re: My friend has been arrested... [Re: Maverick]
#5733635 - 06/10/06 09:51 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
DRTMaverick said: Aah, phreaking can't be targeted as civil either depending on who they're doing it to?
actualy it is criminal and civil suits that can be filed, it falls under theft, civil damages come from any losses they incured as a result.
Quote:
I'm unaware of any laws on the creation and distribution of programs like his, though I'm sure there are, I'm just not aware of it.
even if the laws dont specificly name a method, it's pretty obvious that there are laws, your friend is in jail isnt he.
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Cepheus
Balance



Registered: 04/19/06
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Re: My friend has been arrested... [Re: Prisoner#1]
#5734992 - 06/10/06 05:43 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
DRTMaverick said: Aah, phreaking can't be targeted as civil either depending on who they're doing it to?
actualy it is criminal and civil suits that can be filed, it falls under theft, civil damages come from any losses they incured as a result.
Quote:
I'm unaware of any laws on the creation and distribution of programs like his, though I'm sure there are, I'm just not aware of it.
even if the laws dont specificly name a method, it's pretty obvious that there are laws, your friend is in jail isnt he.
hes in federal custardy awaiting trial. 19th june is the court date. hopefully it shouldn't be too bad... else the reality of law will impose itself on my life.
I guess you never really appreciate the law untill it bites you in the ass.
-------------------- "I only ever hope to reach equilibrium, in Nature's matrix, in line with the meridian" ~ Jehst
"...and I know that I have to keep breathing, as tomorrow the sun will rise, who knows what the tide will bring?" Free Spore Ring Europe Send any spare spore prints you might have and help the distribution
Open Source. Freedom. GNU/Linux Addicting is not a word.
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