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OfflineCepheus
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My friend has been arrested...
    #5733479 - 06/10/06 08:27 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

For $1 million worth of computer fraud.

I've known this guy since 2000, we've done a lot of projects together, he's taught me a lot and I have taught him.

http://www.kxly.com/index.php?sect_rank=1&story_id=2897

http://www.freerobert.com


--------------------
"I only ever hope to reach equilibrium, in Nature's matrix, in line with the meridian" ~ Jehst

:sun: "...and I know that I have to keep breathing, as tomorrow the sun will rise, who knows what the tide will bring?" :sun:

Free Spore Ring Europe
Send any spare spore prints you might have and help the distribution :grin:

Open Source. Freedom.  GNU/Linux

Addicting is not a word.


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OfflineKidgardFromSRQ
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Registered: 05/30/05
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Re: My friend has been arrested... [Re: Cepheus]
    #5733486 - 06/10/06 08:31 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

no offence dude, but he kind of had that coming. stealing is not cool, even if it is from telemarketers.


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Be nice to people in general. Even if you don't like them.


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OfflineNashbar
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Re: My friend has been arrested... [Re: Cepheus]
    #5733492 - 06/10/06 08:33 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

another low-life criminal... fuck him, hope he digs prison, should have thought about that before he hacked and stole.


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Offlinedomite
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Re: My friend has been arrested... [Re: Nashbar]
    #5733531 - 06/10/06 08:47 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

If he really did steal to support his sick father, like that website claims he did, the situation , in my opinion, is more ambiguous than just "let the low life criminal rot in jail."

Either way, sorry to hear about your freind, and tell him to stay strong.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: My friend has been arrested... [Re: Cepheus]
    #5733532 - 06/10/06 08:48 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

aManEater said:
For $1 million worth of computer fraud.




so he should have bail money then, tell his sister that he will be heard when he gets to court


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: My friend has been arrested... [Re: domite]
    #5733536 - 06/10/06 08:51 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

domite said:
If he really did steal to support his sick father




then his father should be well taken care of with a million dollars, if you read
more then you'll discover that him teaching others to commit the same crime
shows he wasnt doing it just to support his ailing father


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OfflineNashbar
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Re: My friend has been arrested... [Re: domite]
    #5733539 - 06/10/06 08:52 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

domite said:
If he really did steal to support his sick father, like that website claims he did, the situation is more ambiguous




are you serious? he's one of those humanitarian hackers?

everybody has bills, I don't steal shit so I can afford food or beer.


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Offlinedomite
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Re: My friend has been arrested... [Re: Nashbar]
    #5733548 - 06/10/06 08:58 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Okay, so it might not be applicable to this guy, but if somebody needed to steal to feed thier kids, would you still consider the theft immoral?


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: My friend has been arrested... [Re: domite]
    #5733552 - 06/10/06 08:59 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

considering that theres other ways to feed the kids, yes, all they have to do is ask for help


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OfflineNashbar
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Re: My friend has been arrested... [Re: domite]
    #5733558 - 06/10/06 09:02 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

are you serious? Think about what you're saying.

hell yes, stealing for food is immoral, I've gone hungry more than I care to ever again. Never robbed anybody, but then again, I have a job, go to school, drink beer and do drugs.

Theft is immoral, of any kind. those telemarketers and that woman on street with a fat purse have kids to feed too.

How would you like it if the poor showed up at your house to take your shit?


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OfflineMaverick
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Re: My friend has been arrested... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5733561 - 06/10/06 09:03 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I think your friend should have screwed telemarketers over in a fashion that didn't involve money. :frown:


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OfflineCepheus
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Re: My friend has been arrested... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5733566 - 06/10/06 09:06 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

...All he did was write a program... That the actual criminal paid 20k for.

Hacking is a media buzz word. He did not break into any computers to write this program.. all it did was route traffic.

I just don't see why providing the tools can be considered a crime. Its up to the user to decide wether they want to break the law with it. (has some relevance here - i.e spores)


--------------------
"I only ever hope to reach equilibrium, in Nature's matrix, in line with the meridian" ~ Jehst

:sun: "...and I know that I have to keep breathing, as tomorrow the sun will rise, who knows what the tide will bring?" :sun:

Free Spore Ring Europe
Send any spare spore prints you might have and help the distribution :grin:

Open Source. Freedom.  GNU/Linux

Addicting is not a word.


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OfflineMaverick
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Re: My friend has been arrested... [Re: Nashbar]
    #5733569 - 06/10/06 09:07 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Oh well I wouldn't steal for myself, but if I had a child who was starving, I'd steal. Though I don't think it'd be to the same immorality as stealing over a million dollars. *shrug*

To save a life of one dearest to me, I'd do anything.


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Offlinedomite
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Re: My friend has been arrested... [Re: Nashbar]
    #5733570 - 06/10/06 09:08 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I'm not really "saying" anything. Im just asking a question. One that I personally don't feel like I have a good answer for.

While I would defend my property from anyone trying to take it, I would also steal if I was unable to find any other way to feed myself or my family. I find it hard to fault sombody if they are doing what they need to to survive.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: My friend has been arrested... [Re: Cepheus]
    #5733575 - 06/10/06 09:11 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

aManEater said:
Hacking is a media buzz word. He did not break into any computers to write this program.. all it did was route traffic.




so all he did was phreaking... guess what, it's still a federal crime

Quote:

I just don't see why providing the tools can be considered a crime.




when the only purpose of a tool is to commit a crime, he takes the responsibility for it's misuse by not marketing it to people that are bonded and
licensed to have such a tool, providing it to just anyone is his big mistake
and since he did in fact profit by selling it to a criminal, knew the intent
of this person he is in fact an accomplice during the fact


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OfflineNashbar
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Re: My friend has been arrested... [Re: Maverick]
    #5733579 - 06/10/06 09:15 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

well, if everyone steals what they think they need from everybody else, there would be issues, duh. Hence the legal system, laws aren't a new concept, neither is stealing.

The thief in this case is lucky he's in Spokane, WA in year 2006. Most other places or times and he'd be missing body parts or dead already.


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OfflineMaverick
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Re: My friend has been arrested... [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #5733581 - 06/10/06 09:16 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

The phreaking he did is liable for a lawsuit and time punishable, but writing the program and distributing it shouldn't. That's like making a gun, then selling it to someone, them going out with your gun and assassinating someone, and it being your fault. You're not in control of what the person's going to do with the gun, or the tools in this case.


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OfflineCepheus
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Re: My friend has been arrested... [Re: Nashbar]
    #5733584 - 06/10/06 09:17 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Nashbar said:
well, if everyone steals what they think they need from everybody else, there would be issues, duh. Hence the legal system, laws aren't a new concept, neither is stealing.

The thief in this case is lucky he's in Spokane, WA in year 2006. Most other places or times and he'd be missing body parts or dead already.




he didn't steal anything though, he just provided the means for 20k.


--------------------
"I only ever hope to reach equilibrium, in Nature's matrix, in line with the meridian" ~ Jehst

:sun: "...and I know that I have to keep breathing, as tomorrow the sun will rise, who knows what the tide will bring?" :sun:

Free Spore Ring Europe
Send any spare spore prints you might have and help the distribution :grin:

Open Source. Freedom.  GNU/Linux

Addicting is not a word.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: My friend has been arrested... [Re: Maverick]
    #5733590 - 06/10/06 09:27 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

DRTMaverick said:
The phreaking he did is liable for a lawsuit and time punishable, but writing the program and distributing it shouldn't.




fphreaking is actualy a crime, not a civil offense

do a little search for Phil Zimmerman and PGP, all he did was say 'no' to the
government regarding a back door in his encryption scheme, he served about 7
years for 'exportation of encryption scheme' when in fact he never exported
anything, conspiracy holds a heavy penalty, what he did was in fact conspire
to defraud.



Quote:

That's like making a gun, then selling it to someone, them going out with your gun and assassinating someone, and it being your fault. You're not in control of what the person's going to do with the gun, or the tools in this case.




making a firearm without a license is illegal, by manufacturing this weapon and
selling it you have in fact comittted a crime that was compounded with
additional crimes by another, again, you're tangled in the conspiracy, had you
never produced the 'tools' you wouldnt be recieving the charges... see how it works?

it's kind of like robbing a liquor store, you pull the gun, the man behind the
counter dies of a heart attack while you're robbing him, had you not robbed him
he may have lived and you wouldnt be getting charged for murder and armed robbery


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Offlinedomite
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Re: My friend has been arrested... [Re: Nashbar]
    #5733593 - 06/10/06 09:28 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

"well, if everyone steals what they think they need from everybody else, there would be issues, duh. Hence the legal system, laws aren't a new concept, neither is stealing. "

If this was directed at my post, I feel like you are oversimplifying the question a little bit. To say the illegality of the act makes it immoral, thats a bit silly on a drug forum.

Don't get me wrong, I understand the difference between a law that protects people from eachother, and a law that "protects" people from themselves. I will even submit that an act of self preservation could be wrong, like if you somehow needed to take the lives of innocent people to survive.

But taking the property of an innocent person, when one's life depends on it seems different to me. Again, im conflicted on this. I understand why it would be considered immoral, but it seems justified to me.


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