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Offlinequillini
one meanmotorscooter
Male

Registered: 04/18/06
Posts: 255
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: Al-Zarqawi Dead... [Re: Twister]
    #5728156 - 06/08/06 07:58 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

The picture of the body and the known picture of Zarqawi look identical. Al-Qaeda said he was dead. I'm satisfied. Who give a fuck how he was killed?


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No; truth, being alive, was not halfway between anything. It was only to be found by continuous excursions into either realm, and though proportion is the final secret, to espouse it at the outset is to insure sterility.

Only connect...


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OfflineTwister
Lucrative
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Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 6,672
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Re: Al-Zarqawi Dead... [Re: quillini]
    #5728186 - 06/08/06 08:07 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I care because the government is supposed to have a responsibility to its citizens not to out and out lie to them. Even if the body and known pictures of him look identical(ever hear of makeup), 500 lbs of high explosives going off anywhere near someone is going to leave them with a whole hell of a lot more than a few scratches on their face.


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OfflineSnaggletooth
Stranger in a Strange Land
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Registered: 10/24/05
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Re: Al-Zarqawi Dead... [Re: Twister]
    #5728193 - 06/08/06 08:11 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)



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Atheist Chat


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OfflineEmperorKuzco
somewhatfamiliar

Registered: 02/13/06
Posts: 252
Last seen: 16 years, 11 months
Re: Al-Zarqawi Dead... [Re: Twister]
    #5728205 - 06/08/06 08:14 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

What's the one thing every islamic terrorist wants? To die as a martyr at the hands of the Great Satan. We just handed Zarqawi what he wanted most. Now the insurgents have a rallying cry and more reason than ever to blow shit up and cause fear. Nothing has been solved. We need to get the hell out of there and let them have the civil war they need to sort shit out. I mean, what if the french had hung around after the Revolutionary War and wrote our constitution for us? Remember that to the British, George Washington was and insurgent, and to us he is a hero. It's all perspective. End of rant.

~Kuzco


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InvisiblePenguarky Tunguin
f n o r d
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Registered: 08/08/04
Posts: 17,192
Re: Al-Zarqawi Dead... [Re: cougercruiser]
    #5728213 - 06/08/06 08:16 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

cougercruiser said:
yah but it took how many beheadings and bombs before we found him.....the part that really pissis me off is that he lived in the united states (georgia) and then moved to his country to do this shit!! aghhhh





Body....double. Known to be used...frequently.


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Every mistake, intentional or otherwise, in the above post, is the fault of the reader.


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Offlinequillini
one meanmotorscooter
Male

Registered: 04/18/06
Posts: 255
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: Al-Zarqawi Dead... [Re: Twister]
    #5728230 - 06/08/06 08:22 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Maybe, but you don't know that for sure. I just don't see the incentive to randomly lie about this, when Zarqawi could just post a video of himself on the internet saying "psyche!" I mean, if the gov't is going to lie about killing someone, why Zarqawi? Why not bin Laden?

Every gov't, ever, has lied to its citizens. It's what they do. What people are "supposed" to do bears little relevance to what they actually do; one is ideal, the other is real. You know how much of a whore you have to be to be a politician? We elect these whores to run the gov't, and you think they are all of a sudden going to turn into Crusaders for Truth?

I see Zarqawi's death as potentially a "good thing", as it might mean Iraq is reaching a turning point. The technical details surrounding his death, whether he was killed by a precision air strike, or if he was tortured and executed beforehand and his body was planted later, are not all that important. Whatever happened to the fucker, he deserved it. Because Zarqawi was a fucker.


--------------------
No; truth, being alive, was not halfway between anything. It was only to be found by continuous excursions into either realm, and though proportion is the final secret, to espouse it at the outset is to insure sterility.

Only connect...


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OfflineTwister
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Registered: 06/12/03
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Re: Al-Zarqawi Dead... [Re: quillini]
    #5728435 - 06/08/06 09:08 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Of course governments lie but I'd expect them to try a little harder. Its just a little insulting. Ultimately I really don't care because after college I'm getting out of here, but I'd hope others could see through the bullshit using a little common sense.

And Zarqawi was no more of a fucker than the pilots that drop bombs on civilians every day in the name of "freedom and justice", just because they are commanded to. In my opinion he's less of a fucker seeing as he's fighting to keep a foreign power from forcing their policy on his bretheren, rather than doing a job to get some cash. Either way though, war is full of fuckers and no military death on either side is unwarranted.


Edited by Twister (06/08/06 09:09 PM)


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Offlinequillini
one meanmotorscooter
Male

Registered: 04/18/06
Posts: 255
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Re: Al-Zarqawi Dead... [Re: Twister]
    #5729012 - 06/08/06 11:39 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Zarqawi was more of a fucker than the pilots because he intentionally targeted civilians. I don't buy the assertion that these pilots, or their commanding officers, are intentionally targeting civilians. Granted, there have been incidents of such, but not enough to throw a blanket accusation that the whole military is involved in such atrocities.

Let's not go making Zarqawi into some kind of selfless hero crusading for his homeland or whatever. That's just as asinine as making George Bush into a hero. You're so sure that Zarqawi's motivations were altruistic, and he wasn't recieving payment for his services? Just as with Bush, perhaps there is some kind of stupid black/white ideology behind it, but in the end a whole fucklot depends on who's getting paid.

Now, if you were to eqate Zarqawi with Bush, you might find me in agreement. But it doesn't make any sense that our troops are needlessly killing innocent people. They're doing what they need to do in order to get the fuck home in one piece, and it seems as though randomly bombing civilians would be working against that goal. They're picking their targets carefully, taking into consideration how many lives (including their own) might be saved if a certain action is pursued, vs. how much collateral damage (and thus political shitfest, complicating matters, extending occupation) might be involved. It's not always clear cut.

Zarqawi did not operate with such a consideration. It was in his interest to raise as much hell as possible to make Iraq as unpleasant as possible for US troops. That was his job. Pursuant to this, he intentionally murdered civilians as a cynical ploy to magnify anti-US sentiment, often with great success. Civilian deaths in Iraq will always be blamed on US troops, regardless of whether US troops caused them or not. Because it is unjust for US troops to be there in the first place, the prevalent assumption is going to be that every hardship in Iraq post-invasion, and this includes all violent civilian deaths, is thus the fault of US troops. In reality of course it is much more complex, but don't count on popular sentiment to acknowledge complexity.

Personally, I believe that tactically the Iraq invasion/occupation has been impressive. Strategically, though, it was fucking retarded. Unfortunately for us, strategy is waaaaaaaaaaaay more important than tactics in the long run.

BTW, in keeping with the analysis of popular sentiment, every autocratic regime in history has shown us that even the stupidest of lies, repeated often enough, and coupled with a percieved threat to security/way of life/the children/purity of race, will be taken as fact by the majority of a subjected people. Those who won't be conned suddenly find their lives much harder, and the pressure is on to either shut up or leave the country, to quote Bill O'Reilly. So don't think you are doing some great rebellious thing by leaving the US; you're not. You're doing exacly what the cretins in power want you to do.


--------------------
No; truth, being alive, was not halfway between anything. It was only to be found by continuous excursions into either realm, and though proportion is the final secret, to espouse it at the outset is to insure sterility.

Only connect...


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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Al-Zarqawi Dead... [Re: Snaggletooth]
    #5729028 - 06/08/06 11:45 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Snaggletooth said:


Remember this guy, what a hoot!


Now he is in heaven with 72 virgins....lol what a dumb ass

To bad the Left wings freedom fighter dies, now what are they going to bitch about :smirk:

I dont know but it will be funny, them craze dems...lol


Well I am glad that he is dead, only hope he suffered be for he went.





I've had about enough of your slack-jawed redneckery.


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OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
Male

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 10/08/02
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Re: Al-Zarqawi Dead... [Re: Papaver]
    #5729046 - 06/08/06 11:51 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I love reading about politics in the Pub. It reminds me how nutty and uninformed most people are.


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InvisibleDisco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/15/00
Posts: 2,601
Re: Al-Zarqawi Dead... [Re: EmperorKuzco]
    #5732812 - 06/10/06 12:28 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/06/08/berg.interview/index.html

Quote:

CNN) -- The U.S.-led coalition's No. 1 wanted man in Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi -- who conducted a campaign of insurgency bombings, beheadings and killings of Americans and Iraqi civilians -- was killed in a U.S. airstrike.

A gruesome video was posted on Islamic Web sites in May, 2004, depicting a man believed to be al-Zarqawi beheading Nicholas Berg, an American businessman who was working in Iraq.

CNN anchor Soledad O"Brien talks to Nicholas Berg's father, Michael Berg, by phone from Wilmington, Delaware, for his reaction to the news.

O'BRIEN: Mr. Berg, thank you for talking with us again. It's nice to have an opportunity to talk to you. Of course, I'm curious to know your reaction, as it is now confirmed that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the man who is widely credited and blamed for killing your son, Nicholas, is dead.

MICHAEL BERG: Well, my reaction is I'm sorry whenever any human being dies. Zarqawi is a human being. He has a family who are reacting just as my family reacted when Nick was killed, and I feel bad for that.

I feel doubly bad, though, because Zarqawi is also a political figure, and his death will re-ignite yet another wave of revenge, and revenge is something that I do not follow, that I do want ask for, that I do not wish for against anybody. And it can't end the cycle. As long as people use violence to combat violence, we will always have violence.

O'BRIEN: I have to say, sir, I'm surprised. I know how devastated you and your family were, frankly, when Nick was killed in such a horrible, and brutal and public way.

BERG: Well, you shouldn't be surprised, because I have never indicated anything but forgiveness and peace in any interview on the air.

O'BRIEN: No, no. And we have spoken before, and I'm well aware of that. But at some point, one would think, is there a moment when you say, 'I'm glad he's dead, the man who killed my son'?

BERG: No. How can a human being be glad that another human being is dead?

O'BRIEN: There have been family members who have weighed in, victims, who've said that they don't think he's a martyr in heaven, that they think, frankly, he went straight to hell ...

You know, you talked about the fact that he's become a political figure. Are you concerned that he becomes a martyr and a hero and, in fact, invigorates the insurgency in Iraq?

BERG: Of course. When Nick was killed, I felt that I had nothing left to lose. I'm a pacifist, so I wasn't going out murdering people. But I am -- was not a risk-taking person, and yet now I've done things that have endangered me tremendously.

I've been shot at. I've been showed horrible pictures. I've been called all kinds of names and threatened by all kinds of people, and yet I feel that I have nothing left to lose, so I do those things.

Now, take someone who in 1991, who maybe had their family killed by an American bomb, their support system whisked away from them, someone who, instead of being 59, as I was when Nick died, was 5-years-old or 10-years-old. And then If I were that person, might I not learn how to fly a plane into a building or strap a bag of bombs to my back?

That's what is happening every time we kill an Iraqi, every time we kill anyone, we are creating a large number of people who are going to want vengeance. And, you know, when are we ever going to learn that that doesn't work?

O'BRIEN: There's an alternate reading, which would say at some point, Iraqis will say the insurgency is not OK -- that they'll be inspired by the death of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi in the sense of he was turned in, for example, we believe by his own No. 2, No. 3 leadership in his ranks.

And, that's actually them saying we do not want this kind of violence in our country. Experts whom we've spoken to this morning have said this is a critical moment where Iraqis need to figure out which direction the country is going to go. That would be an alternate reading to the scenario you're pointing to.

BERG: Yes, well, I don't believe that scenario, because every time news of new atrocities committed by Americans in Iraq becomes public, more and more of the everyday Iraqi people who tried to hold out, who tried to be peaceful people lose it and join -- what we call the insurgency, and what I call the resistance, against the occupation of one sovereign nation.

O'BRIEN: There's a theory that a struggle for democracy, you know...

BERG: Democracy? Come on, you can't really believe that that's a democracy there when the people who are running the elections are holding guns. That's not democracy.

O'BRIEN: There's a theory that as they try to form some kind of government, that it's going to be brutal, it's going to be bloody, there's going to be loss, and that's the history of many countries -- and that's just what a lot of people pay for what they believe will be better than what they had under Saddam Hussein.

BERG: Well, you know, I'm not saying Saddam Hussein was a good man, but he's no worse than George Bush. Saddam Hussein didn't pull the trigger, didn't commit the rapes. Neither did George Bush. But both men are responsible for them under their reigns of terror.

I don't buy that. Iraq did not have al Qaeda in it. Al Qaeda supposedly killed my son.

Under Saddam Hussein, no al Qaeda. Under George Bush, al Qaeda.

Under Saddam Hussein, relative stability. Under George Bush, instability.

Under Saddam Hussein, about 30,000 deaths a year. Under George Bush, about 60,000 deaths a year. I don't get it. Why is it better to have George Bush the king of Iraq rather than Saddam Hussein?

O'BRIEN: Michael Berg is the father of Nicholas Berg, the young man, the young businessman who was beheaded so brutally in Iraq back in May of 2004.




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Offlinezeegos
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Registered: 04/03/06
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Re: Al-Zarqawi Dead... [Re: Disco Cat]
    #5745205 - 06/13/06 09:32 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I bet the mofo is still alive and will live the rest of his life in a torture chamber.


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