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OfflineExplorerdude
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Registered: 03/05/02
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Loc: Baltimore, MD
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
Antibiotics and Mycelial Growth
    #572336 - 03/07/02 10:55 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I pose a question for you expert shroomers here...  First let me deviate a little bit...

I recently did a little experiment with my first batch of jars i inoculated.  My experiment was to find out whether or not it would speed up mycelial growth by sterilizing the PF filled jars prior to innoculation or not.  It was very funny to me because I seem to be having no growth at all in the jars I sterilized and white fuzz contam *I think* growing in my control jar.  The only thing that is in the steril jars is substrate with this funny looking grey gel like substance.  There was no whiteness at any of the innoculation sites in any of the steril jars where there is in the non steril jar.  I made sure to use organic brown rice flour too.  So I don't know what to conclude of that.

My question is this...  On my next batch I'm going to try putting 342mg's(the equivilent of one pill) of Bactrim (sulfamethoxazole and trimethoprim) into my substrate prior to innoculation and sterilization for my experiment group and try not putting anything in my control group and see what happens.  I am also going to try an experiment with a flush of the remainder of whats in my syringe now with one pill on agar and see what happens.  It should be interesting to see how it turns out.  I'd love to see ryohzomatic growth in the experimental group. :smile:

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.  I am new with this and I know very little about pharmacology.  I know Bactrim is an antibiotic and I've heard that antibiotics sometimes help aid in keeping contam down.  So who knows.  I should be getting my new syringe this weekend so hopefully I'll have results by next week.  I will keep you posted on how it goes.

Comment welcome!

Cheers!!

Joe 


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OfflineShaw
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Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 2,218
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Re: Antibiotics and Mycelial Growth [Re: Explorerdude]
    #572569 - 03/07/02 04:19 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

your not saying you innoculated unsterilized jars are you? Do you know anything about the amounts your using? i'd assume unknown doses would probably kill the mycelium.


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OfflineSuntzu
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Re: Antibiotics and Mycelial Growth [Re: Shaw]
    #572711 - 03/07/02 07:19 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Hmm. Now this is pretty interesting to think about. The mechanism of action of trimethoprim/sulfa is inhibition of folic acid synthesis. It selectively works on bacteria in people because people are not making their own folic acid, they get it from their food. So the bacteria become 'starved' of folate and are selectively killed.
In a jar of grain, however, there is an appreciable amount of folate [i.e. folic acid] already in there. So the selective pressure that trimethoprim/sulfa WOULD put on the bacteria in a human/animal infection is likely not going to be the case in the jar of grain. That is assuming, of course, that the gram positive bacteria [which will be your contams] can uptake existing folate.
I never really considered that type of possibility with antibiotics in grain. . .but thinking about it now I'd wager that particular antibiotic won't make a whit of difference.
Interesting concept.....


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OfflineExplorerdude
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Re: Antibiotics and Mycelial Growth [Re: Suntzu]
    #572865 - 03/07/02 10:07 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Shaw- On the first experiment (without antibiotics) I did, I did inoculate one jar that did not get sterilized and that that jar was the only one I've seen any growth in.  I innoculated all of my jars on about the 28th of February.  Some of them seem to have a slight moldy smell to them so I'm discarding them.  Others don't have any smell and have no signs of growth.  The interesting thing is that on the one non-steril jar, all of the growth seems to be around the innoculation sites.  So I'm going to let that one get completely filled with growth before I open it. 

On my next experiment (with antibiotics), I am going to have a control group that I use steril techniche on and no antibiotics and I'm going to have an experimental group that I'm going to use a known dose on. (One pill per jar)

Suntzu --Thanks for the input.  Mycology is new and very interesting to me.  I can't wait to experiment with this.  It is a very interesting concept.  It would be shocking and neat if it worked.  But it seems that your hypothesis sounds more like what will happen.

I will soon find out.  I'm going to try using the regular brown rice vermiculite substrate and also a petri dish/agar technique and see if I get a response.

Do you know of any antibiotics that selectively kill certain bacteria?

How do fungi protect themselves against bacteria?

Aren't some bacterium fungi?  Would this have a negative effect on mycelial production?

Thanks again!

Joe :smile:


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Offlinegray1
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Registered: 04/30/01
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Re: Antibiotics and Mycelial Growth [Re: Explorerdude]
    #573255 - 03/08/02 09:12 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

my suggestion would be to order some real antibiotics meant for microbiology work from some fungus oriented vendor/stamets/whatever instead of using human rx. antibiotics are best used for liquid and agar culture and most must be added after sterilization because they will break down at high temperatures.


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OfflineExplorerdude
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Experiment Results [Re: Explorerdude]
    #595659 - 04/01/02 05:21 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Hey all,
Well my experiment has had some very interesting results, so far. First, here is what I did. I took one 342mg Bactrim pill and crushed it to a fine powder. I then added a very small amount of water (3 tablespoons) to this mixture. After doing this i took my spore syringe that I used in previous experiments with no results (except for some nasty mold) and filled it with approximately 2 CC's of the Bactrim water mix. I then took the resulting mixture and used it to inoculate one PF jar. (Simply because from what I read I figured that I would have negative results) After 29 days in incubation at approximately 70 degrees F, I have mycelial growth. The size of the growths are approximately silver dollar size and growing. I know this is definately mycelium and not contam simpy because of the bright white color and ryohzomatic growth! I am hoping to borrow a digital camera sometime soon to take some pics of this. It may all have just been coencidence but I think that it helped aid in the growth.

Happy Shroomin',

Joe


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Advanced Mycology

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