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Offlinepimmp1969
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Would molases work for lc
    #5718284 - 06/06/06 09:13 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

two of my jars have completely stoped colonizing. So i don't want to waste it an make liquid culture out of it but all i have is molasses. would this be a good substitute for honey??


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Going to trial with a lawyer who considers your whole life-style a Crime in Progress is not a happy prospect.
Hunter S. Thompson

Reality is just a crutch for people who can't cope with drugs.
--Robin Williams


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InvisibleAtheist
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Re: Would molases work for lc [Re: pimmp1969]
    #5718289 - 06/06/06 09:16 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

honey is pretty cheap

cant answer ur question man, i'd think that it would carmalize bad


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Offlinepimmp1969
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Re: Would molases work for lc [Re: Atheist]
    #5718320 - 06/06/06 09:29 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

im gonna go for it unless someone thinks its not gonna work


--------------------
Going to trial with a lawyer who considers your whole life-style a Crime in Progress is not a happy prospect.
Hunter S. Thompson

Reality is just a crutch for people who can't cope with drugs.
--Robin Williams


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InvisibleAtheist
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Re: Would molases work for lc [Re: pimmp1969]
    #5718341 - 06/06/06 09:40 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

do it :thumbup:


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OfflineCoolMojo
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Re: Would molases work for lc [Re: Atheist]
    #5718519 - 06/06/06 11:02 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Well it will probly work. I think its not so much a question of will it work but how well.


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: Would molases work for lc [Re: CoolMojo]
    #5718548 - 06/06/06 11:12 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

it will work.

might want to use a little more than the typical 4% recipe that folks use with karo or honey, because molasses has a higher water content to begin with.


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Re: Would molases work for lc [Re: creamcorn]
    #5718562 - 06/06/06 11:16 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

i wouldnt use more than 6%


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: Would molases work for lc [Re: Atheist]
    #5718570 - 06/06/06 11:19 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

SpicyTunaRoll said:
i wouldnt use more than 6%




spot on.


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Offlinepimmp1969
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Re: Would molases work for lc [Re: creamcorn]
    #5718741 - 06/06/06 12:13 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

thanks spicy tuna an creamcorn you guys have been very helpful, so like 5cc of mollasses per 12cc syringe


--------------------
Going to trial with a lawyer who considers your whole life-style a Crime in Progress is not a happy prospect.
Hunter S. Thompson

Reality is just a crutch for people who can't cope with drugs.
--Robin Williams


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Re: Would molases work for lc [Re: pimmp1969]
    #5718745 - 06/06/06 12:15 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Of your whole solution

it should be like 95% water

and 5% molasses


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Offlinejohnuk
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Re: Would molases work for lc [Re: pimmp1969]
    #5718751 - 06/06/06 12:18 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I've used regular table sugar for LC and it works fine. I've also tried raw glucose and there wasn't really any difference between the two.

I keep bees and honey is just a mix of sugar isomers, some protein in the form of pollen and some more in the form of enzymes that the bees use to convert the nectar to simple sugars like fructose; these enzymes aren't functional in most honey because a lot of it is imported, meaning it's likely been pasteurised before coming into your country.


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Offlinetallgreen
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Re: Would molases work for lc [Re: johnuk]
    #5719133 - 06/06/06 02:19 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Molasses is the byproduct of extracting sugar from cane, or at least part of the byproduct. So it probably has lots of other stuff besides sugar along with sugar. I'm curious to see what happens, post your results please. Does anyone know what mycelium eats besides sugar?


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Nothing you can know that isn't known.
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Nowhere you can be that isn't where you're meant to be.
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All you need is love.
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Offlinejohnuk
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Re: Would molases work for lc [Re: tallgreen]
    #5722228 - 06/07/06 08:54 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I spent quite a lot of time trying to work that out and didn't get very far.

The extensive conclusion of my reading was... they eat simple carbohydrates - sugar. Problem is, if you try to feed them raw sugar at a high percentage the osmotic pressure difference seems to prevent growth altogether. In nature, the mycelium doesn't particularly like living in high sugar content material. Instead, it lives in carbohydraty things and breaks down the complex chains into sugars locally and at rate slow enough that it doesn't end up swimming in sugar.

If you've ever made LC you'll know what 'high' sugar levels are, and it's not very much at all. Given that you can only use a small amount of raw sugar if you're expecting the mycelium to grow, the total energy content of a raw sugar medium is actually quite low. If you try to increase it by adding more sugar the mycellium doesn't grow. The only way to get it to work would be to drip feed the mycellium more of the solution as it used it up. Maybe you could do this by storing the solution in some kind of bag made out of osmotic plastic?

The human body can also break down proteins into carbohydrates. Excess proteins get taken to the liver where they're deaminated - the amine groups are pulled off. Once you take away the amines, you get a carbohydrate style chain. The amines, now spare, get bound up to a spare carbon and oxygen and then leave the body as urine. There might be some other process by which the body can rebuild proteins it actually needs using the spare amine groups, but I'm not sure.

I wouldn't be suprised if mycelia didn't posses the same deamination enzymes so's that they can break down meats and things if need be, but I think most of them prefer to stick to messing up my bread.

This tells us that what we could do with is a carbohyrate with a small chain length that the mycellium can break down easily, but also one that doesn't affect the osmotic pressures too much.

Also... if you read the log somewhere on here about growing shrooms on white rice, you'll see that despite getting a huge harvest of shrooms on a 100% rice cake, the grower mentioned the shrooms being practically useless in terms of their psilo* content. Must be that some key ingredient is missing from simple white rice that the network needs to produce psilo* molecules - but it can grow fine on it.

I don't know the entire synthesis of psilo* in shrooms, so I couldn't take a guess at what specifically that might be at the moment. Although, it's probably either lack of the raw components or lack of some enzyme needed to synthesis it.

It'd be great if we could work it out because they sure seemed to like his rice. It would also open up the possibility of using a supplemental feed of these (probably trace) nutrients on other media to increase the psilo* yeild.


Edited by johnuk (06/07/06 09:13 AM)


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Offlinetallgreen
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Re: Would molases work for lc [Re: johnuk]
    #5734615 - 06/10/06 03:28 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Cool, thanks for the info johnuk.

White rice is "polished" brown rice. Basically it's just brown rice with the hull removed. When this process first became popular in the early 20th century many people who's diet was largely comprised of rice contracted Beriberi disease, which is lack of vitamin B1. The hull of the brown rice contains B vitamins, probably a lot of other things as well. But since B1 (thiamine) is essential, people got sick like pirates with scurvy. I wonder if mushrooms need Thiamine? They definitely need something in the hull of brown rice otherwise the pure white rice mushrooms you mentioned would have been normal. I wonder if white rice plus BRF would produce good results. Or maybe Brown rice with WRF. I'm sure they would both work, but I'm curious as to the results since those pure white rice cakes worked so well in respect to physical growth.


--------------------
Nothing you can know that isn't known.
Nothing you can see that isn't shown.
Nowhere you can be that isn't where you're meant to be.
It's easy.
All you need is love.
- The Beatles


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