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Offlinemr_minds_eye
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Need constructive criticism on political poem
    #571631 - 03/06/02 04:13 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I'm trying to refine something I wrote today. If you think it just straight up sucks say so but I wont listen. I think most of you understand the concept of CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. Here goes.

Take the goods from the greedy,
And give em to the needy.
You might call it a crime,
But I'd rather them have em and me do some time.
I'm sorry but you just can't justify so few having so fucking much.
Why do are so many forced to work to produce things they never even get to touch?
The big boss man has 7 figures or more.
While the workers have to accept 13 cents an hour or get shown the door.
Listen to yourself listen to the truth.
Why do you trust the same people who wage war on and exploit the youth?
Open your eyes.
Dispel the lies.
Fear no evil and rage against injustice in the name of truth.
Have all of your material comforts numbed you from another??s pain?
Allowing yourselves to be herded like cattle, living and dieing in vain.
Their power exists in your submission, but you're the one who makes your fear real.
See them for what they are; don't buy in to their cheap appeal.
Why don't more do things out of the virtue of them being right?
You don't have to use violence to put up a fight.
Just because I don't fight fire with fire,
Doesn't mean I'll accept the man as "sire".
Keep on going until they put you down knowing that the truth cannot be unmade.
Make them pay until their debts are paid!


--------------------
Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities.
-Stephen Hawking


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Need constructive criticism on political poem [Re: mr_minds_eye]
    #571868 - 03/06/02 09:49 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

doesn't flow very good, poems have a rythm.

in addition is this a poem for pro-socialism? If so then you are making the case..if not then you fell short


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinesaturnalone
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Re: Need constructive criticism on political poem [Re: mr_minds_eye]
    #572028 - 03/07/02 01:18 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

I liked the poem and am glad i read it. Thanks. One thing i did'nt like is the part about violence.

"You don't have to use violence to put up a fight. "

The government is violent as hell, the military will shoot you, the DEA will too. I think you fell for the "be nice" trap. I think putting up a real fight is normal. Its just my opinion. Keep writing poetry, its good.


--------------------
:wink:


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Offlinemr_minds_eye
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Re: Need constructive criticism on political poem [Re: Innvertigo]
    #572767 - 03/07/02 08:08 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Fuck socialism. All governments are rest on violence and are therefore wrong and unnessisary. Oh no it's a fucking Anarchist!!! Well before you start off with that oh Anarchisms impossible shpeal let me throw a few quotes at you

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.--Benjamin Franklin

Liberty is the possibility of doubting, the possibility of making a mistake, the possibility of searching and experimenting, the possibility of saying "NO" to any authority--literary,artistic,philosophic, religious, social, and even pollitical.--Ignazio Silone

Man is ignorant of the nature of his own being and powers. Even his idea of his limitations is based on experiance of the past. There is therefore no reason to assign theoretical limits on what he may be or may do.--Aleister Crowley

Loyalty to petrified opinion never yet broke a chain or freed a human soul.--Mark Twain

To know anything well involves a profound sence of ignorance.--John Ruskin



--------------------
Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities.
-Stephen Hawking


Edited by mr_minds_eye (03/07/02 08:09 PM)


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Offlinemr_minds_eye
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Re: Need constructive criticism on political poem [Re: saturnalone]
    #572771 - 03/07/02 08:14 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Violence only creates more violence. There are other ways. There actually are more direct ways to solve a problem than shooting people or blowing them up. Use their maliciousness against them.

"Simple truth is more powerfull than empires."--Mahatma Gandhi


--------------------
Our quest for discovery fuels our creativity in all fields, not just science. If we reached the end of the line, the human spirit would shrivel and die. But I don't think we will ever stand still: we shall increase in complexity, if not in depth, and shall always be the center on an expanding horizon of possibilities.
-Stephen Hawking


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Need constructive criticism on political poem [Re: mr_minds_eye]
    #573426 - 03/06/02 11:20 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

****All governments are rest on violence and are therefore wrong and unnessisary****

EH?

****Oh no it's a fucking Anarchist!!! Well before you start off with that oh Anarchisms impossible shpeal let me throw a few quotes at you ****

you're putting words in mu mouth..er .. fingers....

since you brought it up and apparantly don't take constructive criticism too well. Anarchism is a flawed philosophy (if one at all) that deoends on the goodness of the common man. History shows us thet when left to their own devices men conquor other men through violence and deception.

as for your quotes they tell me nothing that i don't already know. What were they supposed to prove? None are pro anarchism, rather are quite Libertarian.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinesaturnalone
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Re: Need constructive criticism on political poem [Re: mr_minds_eye]
    #573794 - 03/08/02 11:45 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

you said "Violence only creates more violence. There are other ways. There actually are more direct ways to solve a problem than shooting people or blowing them up. Use their maliciousness against them."
If you have a better way than force please post it. Up until now in the evolution of everything has been force. Post your way.


--------------------
:wink:


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OfflineJammer
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Re: Need constructive criticism on political poem [Re: mr_minds_eye]
    #573802 - 03/08/02 11:56 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

It does show a Libeiral's perspective quite well. In fact, when I was in my early 20's I used to write poems that read A LOT like the one you posted here.

The only thing that I *might* do diferent next time would be to find some sort of pattern of rymes. (however, by definition there are aceptable forms that DONT need to ryme- yours is an excellent example of this).

Ya ever consider putting some music to it?


--------------------
>>Jammer>>


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Anonymous

Re: Need constructive criticism on political poem [Re: Innvertigo]
    #573852 - 03/09/02 01:08 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

"Anarchism is a flawed philosophy (if one at all) that deoends on the goodness of the
common man. History shows us thet when left to their own devices men conquor other
men through violence and deception."

Invertigo, would you also admit that government is a flawed concept that depends
on the goodness of those in positions of authority? History shows us that when left
to their own devices, men in government control other men through violence and
deception.


Edited by Anonymous (03/09/02 01:10 AM)


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Need constructive criticism on political poem [Re: ]
    #574864 - 03/10/02 10:04 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

****Invertigo, would you also admit that government is a flawed concept that depends on the goodness of those in positions of authority? ****

NO!! The government isn't the flawed concept. Its the peoples responsibility to weed out those that are corrupt. Unfortunatly this society is full of sheep who continuously put these morons back in power..ie: Mckain, Dashelle, Gephart, Thurman etc.

****History shows us that when left to their own devices, men in government control other men through violence and
deception. ****

repeating my post doesn't have the desired affect that you think. It's the people's responsibility to weed these "deceptors"..it's not the governments fault these people get away with what they do...it's the peoples.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Invisibleiglou
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Registered: 03/08/02
Posts: 295
Re: Need constructive criticism on political poem [Re: Innvertigo]
    #574994 - 03/10/02 02:37 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

how are people "supposed to weed out" these politicians when our options are so fucking narrow? Our system is designed to have the minimum amount of choices available and to maintain the corupt old status quo.


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Anonymous

Re: Need constructive criticism on political poem [Re: Innvertigo]
    #575373 - 03/11/02 12:39 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

>The government isn't the flawed concept. Its the peoples responsibility to weed out
>those that are corrupt. Unfortunatly this society is full of sheep who continuously put
>these morons back in power...

>...It's the people's responsibility to weed these "deceptors"..it's not the governments fault these
>people get away with what they do...it's the peoples.

If the people controll the government and the bad actors aren't getting 'weeded out' doesn't
this illustrate that the concept of government is flawed? It's seems that the sentiments you
express about the morons in power and the society being full of sheep actually bolster my
argument, that government is a flawed concept.

Why should a person like you who is aware of how screwed up things are and is intelligent
enough to run his own life be subject to the whims of the ignorant sheep? Why should you
suffer from bad legislation and bad actions at the hands of "the people"? Why should your
hard earned dollars be taxed away from you and spent on things that you are opposed to?
Why should your dollars go to pay for guns and cops that can at any moment be used against
you because you engage in a peacful activity that they have deemed illegal? Why should
people who feel abortion is murder be forced to pay for it? Why should people who are opposed
to bulldozing the rain forrest have their tax money underwrite World Bank loans which fund this?
I personally find it abhorant that anyone should be forced to pay for that which is contrary to his
moral code.

Can you give me any example in history of a government that has not expanded it's power
to be greater than when it was conceived? History shows quite plainly that all governments,
no matter how well intentioned and benign at their beginning, invariably grow, taking more
and more power, more and more tribute and more and more freedom away from individuals
and transfer it to the government. This is the nature of the beast.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Need constructive criticism on political poem [Re: iglou]
    #575810 - 03/11/02 01:41 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

***how are people "supposed to weed out" these politicians when our options are so fucking narrow? ***

One way would be to elect a third party person, however that will never happen when the sheeple allow our choices to be just 2 parties.

With that said we can weed these people out when they do "illegal" things such as Klinton. It was amazing how many people loved this numbnut but never seen the terrible things that he's done. The more we accept these hidden "personal" issues the more we are telling these politicians it's ok to do these things (and i'm not referring to monica...hell i thought he was a fag) These people govern by the polls.

***Our system is designed to have the minimum amount of choices available and to maintain the corupt old status quo. ****

True, however "we the people" have the ability to change it. It's to bad there are so many people out there who don't want to be bothered and don't even vote. I say if you don't vote you have no right to bitch about anything. Voting is the only way the common person has a voice.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineElPrimo
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Registered: 09/29/01
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Re: Need constructive criticism on political poem [Re: mr_minds_eye]
    #580536 - 03/16/02 01:28 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Good start, but while I think invertigo is wong about most things, he's right about the poem not quite flowing well. But then, some poems are meant to be verbalized and the author's cadence doesn't always come across when written down... I used to write lots of political poems...try this one on:

PAULA JONES

This pitiful puppet, deserving scorn

Portrays a virgin, honor torn

But looking past her phony rage

One sees she?s paid to get on stage

She?s promised money, wealth and fame

If Bill Clinton, she?ll help frame

Now politics is rough it?s true

But decent men, will lies eschew

Though some will sink to depths so low

And in the gutter choose to go

If your politics are on the right

There?s no such thing as a fair fight

Yes, there it is for all to see

It?s Slime, who run the GOP


Edited by ElPrimo (03/16/02 04:13 PM)


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OfflineElPrimo
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Re: Need constructive criticism on political poem [Re: ElPrimo]
    #580538 - 03/16/02 01:34 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Actually I need to work on that part about fair fight... awkward.. Now this Newt poem flows better. (oh, Glad I was right in my prediction about newt... What a hypocritical jerk.)

Newt the Liar

From deep in the South
Came a man with a mouth
Who conned his way up the ladder
He started in school
Where he broke all the rules
and his deeds thay got sadder and sadder

Then he married his teacher
and lied to the preacher
When he promised to hold her dear
But after helping him rise
He continued his lies
And dumped her with nary a tear

Now she had no money
And it?s certainly not funny
that she begged for the church to feed them
Yes the kids were not grown
But they were left on their own
And had no father to lead them

But the courts were more fair
They said pay your share
And the money he was forced to spend
And unless you are blind
and tell lies all the time
You know he?s a horses rear end

Now he wrote a book
got in bed with a crook
and took money from under the table
Course the Congressional band
They just slapped his hand
But his honestys now just a fable

For he had to confess
He couldn?t do less
than admit he was a big liar
I predict before long
he soon will be gone
and work as a ?Crook for Hire?





Edited by ElPrimo (03/16/02 04:15 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: Need constructive criticism on political poem [Re: ElPrimo]
    #580576 - 03/16/02 02:47 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Seems like "PAULA JONES" reads like those by Mike Myers' character in
"So I Married an Ax Murderer" (a little music backing it up).


Edited by Anonymous (03/16/02 02:49 PM)


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