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InvisibleDiploidM
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Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique
    #5715401 - 06/05/06 03:01 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Suicide Bombers hold arbitrary beliefs that cannot be verified or falsified. They hold these beliefs with such fervor, that they are blinded to all alternatives. They never admit even the possibility that they may be wrong and stick to their beliefs in the face of evidence contradicting them. If the contradictory evidence is persuasive, the Suicide Bomber resorts to questioning the integrity of the person presenting the evidence rather than addressing the evidence directly.

When Suicide Bombers are cornered in debate, they make recourse to invisible beings who happen to hold the same principles and ideals they do. Since these beings cannot be seen, heard, or questioned, it is not possible to show the Suicide Bomber that he is wrong even if it is the case that he actually IS wrong.

When a Suicide Bomber is asked a hypothetical question he knows will draw out and highlight faults, omissions, and contradictions in his beliefs, he refuses to answer and verbally attacks the questioner rather than address the question.

Suicide Bombers do not seek to update their beliefs or to find Truth; they stagnate and seek only to support their bygone conclusions. They spin new information to make it 'fit' into their world view rather than treat the information neutrally, allowing it to fit or not fit on its own. If the information can be spun enough to fit, it's kept. Otherwise, it's summarily discarded without being considered.

When other types of mystics tell the Suicide Bomber he is wrong and try to explain why, the Suicide Bomber tells the other types of mystics that it is THEY who are wrong and for the exact same reasons!

Suicide Bombers are closed and rigid of thought. They speak in absolutes rather than in propositions: "this is how it is" rather than "this is how it appears to be" or "I am not wrong" rather than "I don't think I'm wrong".

So, Suicide Bombers:

-make up things
-decide those made up things are real
-refuse to consider anything that undermines their made up things
-spin or discard new information to support their made up things
-act according to those made up things as if they were real, all the while avoiding everything that might contradict them.

Now replace Suicide Bombers above with the following and see how it works: astrologer, priest, psychic, telekineticists, telepathists, remote viewer, clairvoyant, psychic surgeon, numerologist, Christian, pope, UFO caller, third-eye seer, santero, crystal wearer, 2012 nut, astral projector, spoon bender, levitator, George Bush...


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: Diploid]
    #5715497 - 06/05/06 03:20 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

ouch!


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: Diploid]
    #5715709 - 06/05/06 04:16 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

:thumbup:


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: Diploid]
    #5715769 - 06/05/06 04:33 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics



Suicide bombers are not mystics, or at least none that I've heard of. Mystics draw their beliefs from direct experience of the divine. Suicide bombers and other fanatics draw their beliefs from the dogmatic teachings of others. If you want to criticize mystics, fine. But stop misusing the word.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: Diploid]
    #5715789 - 06/05/06 04:37 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Suicide bombers and other terrorists do not let God define them; they attempt to define God according to their rigid belief system.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: Redstorm]
    #5715793 - 06/05/06 04:39 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I should also point out that many if not most suicide bombers are motivated at least as much by socio-political forces as by religion.


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OfflineSprings
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: Silversoul]
    #5715876 - 06/05/06 05:07 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I tried, it doesnt work. Its not near the same:

astrologers are closed and rigid of thought. They speak in absolutes rather than in propositions: "this is how it is" rather than "this is how it appears to be" or "I am not wrong" rather than "I don't think I'm wrong".

clairvoyants are closed and rigid of thought. They speak in absolutes rather than in propositions: "this is how it is" rather than "this is how it appears to be" or "I am not wrong" rather than "I don't think I'm wrong".

third-eye seer's are closed and rigid of thought. They speak in absolutes rather than in propositions: "this is how it is" rather than "this is how it appears to be" or "I am not wrong" rather than "I don't think I'm wrong".

spoon benders are closed and rigid of thought. They speak in absolutes rather than in propositions: "this is how it is" rather than "this is how it appears to be" or "I am not wrong" rather than "I don't think I'm wrong".

Like redstorm said.

Only the individual can decide if they adhear to a set of beliefs rigid or not.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: Springs]
    #5715881 - 06/05/06 05:09 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Materialists are closed and rigid of thought. They speak in absolutes rather than in propositions: "this is how it is" rather than "this is how it appears to be" or "I am not wrong" rather than "I don't think I'm wrong".

There, that works. Sometimes. As much as any other belief, anyway.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: Silversoul]
    #5715885 - 06/05/06 05:12 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Wait, now I've figured it out:


People I disagree with are closed and rigid of thought. They speak in absolutes rather than in propositions: "this is how it is" rather than "this is how it appears to be" or "I am not wrong" rather than "I don't think I'm wrong".

There, that's a system that works for anyone. :grin:


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: Diploid]
    #5716032 - 06/05/06 06:04 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Don't forget to add somatics to the list. The Primacy of Existence can't be verified anymore than 72 virgins.


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"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: Diploid]
    #5716043 - 06/05/06 06:06 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Suicide bombers hold hate, fear and anger in their hearts and confusion in their minds.

Mystics work to clear all of that up and work to hold universal love, understanding, forgiveness and peace in their hearts and clarity of mind.

Take a look again at how mystics were the enemy of the church and religions heads that wanted to control people through hate , fear, dogma  and confusion. The mystics were out to put a stop to that, so the church killed them when ever they found them.

:peace: :heart


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5716064 - 06/05/06 06:12 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Drawing a string between suicide bombers and mystics is a bit below the belt on Diploid's part. Not to mention it's a massive stretch of so-called logic.


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"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: Basilides]
    #5716074 - 06/05/06 06:15 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
Drawing a string between suicide bombers and mystics is a bit below the belt on Diploid's part. Not to mention it's a massive stretch of so-called logic.



It's a bit like saying "Dogs and Other Cats"


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: Silversoul]
    #5716432 - 06/05/06 08:00 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics



Suicide bombers are not mystics, or at least none that I've heard of.  Mystics draw their beliefs from direct experience of the divine.  Suicide bombers and other fanatics draw their beliefs from the dogmatic teachings of others.  If you want to criticize mystics, fine.  But stop misusing the word.




Diploid has a long history here of misusing and misunderstanding the word 'mystic.' He applies the word to all manner of individuals whose practices exaggerate the 'mind' or 'psychic' aspect of our mind-body (psychosomatic) existence. This could be fortune tellers of various types, faith healers, those claiming paranormal abilities re: the Psi functions, and other various and sundry fringe elements.

True mystics from Plato to Plotinus, St. Paul to Meister Eckhardt, Ramana Maharshi to Eckhart Tolle - mystics in the best defined (by,say, Evelyn Underhill) quite escape Diploid. I suspect that Mr. Diploid Extraverts his Sensing function (as a personality type) to a degree which prevents much Introverted Intuition to operate in his psyche. This in no way is a judgement, but rather an observation of a personality type. We all have "inferior functions" according to the MBTI, and our growth and development concerns strengthening our inferior function (which we generally have much difficulty with).  Extraverted Sensing types often excel in the hard sciences since the Thinking function is drawn to observable phenomenon in the physical world, and this seems to be Diploid's trip.

Denigrating our inferior function - whichever it may be - is a form of denial which attempts to cast our personality weakness into the Shadow. Like C.G. Jung, I am an INTP and although my Sensing function is well developed (I work with my hands a lot: carpentry, masonry, painting, decorating, etc.), my Feeling function is my inferior function. I avoid strong emotion, suppress it when it arises, and show reluctance to making emotional proclamations to my Lady  :blush:. Actually, MDMA has been very helpful to me with my Feeling function. Oftentimes, psychedelics have helped individuals enhance their Intuitive function to a high degree, with a 'mystic vision' as a consequence. This, unfortunately is not always the case, and sometimes merely strengthens the predominating aspects of a given ego thereby reifying the pre-existing (and biased) typologically based world view. It is, as The Moody Blues once named an album, 'A Question of Balance.'


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: Basilides]
    #5716535 - 06/05/06 08:29 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

The Primacy of Existence can't be verified anymore than 72 virgins.

No foundationalism can be verified.


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5716543 - 06/05/06 08:31 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I think it's fairly obvious


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"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: Diploid]
    #5716549 - 06/05/06 08:32 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Suicide Bombers are closed and rigid of thought. They speak in absolutes rather than in propositions: "this is how it is" rather than "this is how it appears to be" or "I am not wrong" rather than "I don't think I'm wrong".

Diploid appears to be closed and rigid of thought. It seems as if he's speaking in absolutes rather than propositions.  :tongue:


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: Silversoul]
    #5716565 - 06/05/06 08:36 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Mystics draw their beliefs from direct experience of the divine. Suicide bombers and other fanatics draw their beliefs from the dogmatic teachings of others.

Good point.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5717089 - 06/05/06 10:10 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:
It seems as if he's speaking in absolutes rather than propositions.  :tongue:



My thoughts exactly


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: Diploid]
    #5717093 - 06/05/06 10:10 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Suicide Bombers are closed and rigid of thought. They speak in absolutes rather than in propositions: "this is how it is" rather than "this is how it appears to be" or "I am not wrong" rather than "I don't think I'm wrong".

So, Suicide Bombers:

-make up things
-decide those made up things are real
-refuse to consider anything that undermines their made up things
-spin or discard new information to support their made up things
-act according to those made up things as if they were real, all the while avoiding everything that might contradict them.




Replace Suicide Bombers with Humans.....and you have that statement right.


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future


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