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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Question
    #5715722 - 06/05/06 04:21 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Which is better?

1. A pleasant lie.
2. A painfull truth.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
Re: Question [Re: Diploid]
    #5715729 - 06/05/06 04:23 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

All of the above.

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflinePhanTomCat
Teh Cat....
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,908
Loc: My Youniverse....
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
Re: Question [Re: Diploid]
    #5715831 - 06/05/06 04:50 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

3) Silence.



>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflineTheGus
The Walrus

Registered: 09/07/05
Posts: 387
Last seen: 15 years, 11 months
Re: Question [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #5715849 - 06/05/06 04:57 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

i like them both depending upon the scenario, or who it will hurt cus some people i dont care about hurting


--------------------
"It is easier to teach a computer to play chess than to build a mudpie."Sherry Turkle Life on the Screen: Identity in the Age of the Internet
"Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts"-Einstein
:mrt: I pity the fool who break traffic laws with $870,000 of drugs in the car.      -mo0nlite_sonata
Psythos


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Question [Re: Diploid]
    #5715857 - 06/05/06 05:00 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

If you had to pick just one...


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Question [Re: Diploid]
    #5715861 - 06/05/06 05:01 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Depends:

1. Will the pleasant lie have any negative ramifications down the road?
2. Will the painful truth help me grow more wise and mature?


--------------------


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OfflinePhanTomCat
Teh Cat....
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Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,908
Loc: My Youniverse....
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Re: Question [Re: Diploid]
    #5715868 - 06/05/06 05:04 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

OK,

2) a painfull truth*


*Disclaimer: As long as it is not physical pain....


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Question [Re: Diploid]
    #5715878 - 06/05/06 05:07 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Give me the truth every single time.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: Question [Re: Icelander]
    #5716121 - 06/05/06 06:31 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

are they both the same thing?

such as pleasant: "you look cute" vs truth: "actually i find you hideous"


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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OfflineCherk
Fashionable
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Registered: 10/25/02
Posts: 46,493
Loc: International Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: Question [Re: Diploid]
    #5716128 - 06/05/06 06:34 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Is there a difference?


--------------------
I have considered such matters.

SIKE


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OfflinePhanTomCat
Teh Cat....
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Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,908
Loc: My Youniverse....
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
Re: Question [Re: Diploid]
    #5716193 - 06/05/06 06:58 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Was this leading to something and this is just a dramatic pause, or were you just actually seeing how people would answer....?


Which would you choose....?



>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflineXanthas
Blaspheme,blaspheyou, Blaspheverybody

Registered: 11/19/05
Posts: 267
Last seen: 16 years, 8 months
Re: Question [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #5716222 - 06/05/06 07:07 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

The context is ambiguous, and the words "pleasant" and "painful" are inexact.

I'll change it for myself, then answer, if you don't mind.

A falsehood which increases utility
vs
A truth which decreases utility

I'd take the falsehood, assuming nothing else would change. Truth alone is not enough to justify unhappiness.

But I'm really on the fence about this. I've debated it with myself many, many times.


--------------------
If you don't ask the question, you always get it wrong.


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Offlinemichael_lifshitz
Student
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Re: Question [Re: Xanthas]
    #5716893 - 06/05/06 09:44 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Which is more important, happiness? or knowledge?


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Offlinecapliberty
Stranger
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Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 1,949
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Re: Question [Re: michael_lifshitz]
    #5716938 - 06/05/06 09:51 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

can happiness come from an illusion?


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OfflinePhanTomCat
Teh Cat....
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Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,908
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Re: Question [Re: Xanthas]
    #5716996 - 06/05/06 10:00 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Does a truth not have more "value" than a lie....?
Or does the "value" of the deliverer cancel out the "value" of the receiver's willingness to accept it as a truth....?

Even if it is an unpleasant truth, the unpleasantness most likely comes from not wanting to face that truth....

If it is a non-painful lie, it is empty and really doesn't mean anything either way....

It all depends on the perception/realization/denial/intent/delivery/etc. etc.
It is all very subjective, just like everything else.... And there was no context in his question, as you said....


You have three choices, not just two....
1) Tell a truth....
2) Tell a lie....
3) Be silent (as I said for my first answer)....


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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Offlinecapliberty
Stranger
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Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 1,949
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Re: Question [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #5717127 - 06/05/06 10:14 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

even though he didn't convey it thoroughly,

I think he meant:

pleasant lie; the lie is kind of pleasant sounding, but there is consequent painful truth that does exist

painful truth;the truth is painful, but there is an option to tell a pleasant lie to cover it up.

-A: "what you don't know won't hurt you"

-B: "the truth is the only thing that can set you free"

A or B ?


Edited by capliberty (06/05/06 10:24 PM)


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Invisibleniteowl
GrandPaw
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Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc: Flag
Re: Question [Re: Diploid]
    #5717158 - 06/05/06 10:21 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Which is better?

1. A pleasant lie.
2. A painfull truth.




What about....

1. A painfull lie.
2. A pleasant truth.

???


Virtually every "truth" the human race has ever believed has been disproved in some form or another.

Both are just opinions/perceptions/delusions of the human condition.


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future


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OfflineFospher
Crime FightingMaster Criminal
Male

Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 2,033
Loc: The Netherlands
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
Re: Question [Re: Diploid]
    #5717638 - 06/06/06 12:57 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)



--------------------
010001100100001001000101!


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Offlinecapliberty
Stranger
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Posts: 1,949
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Re: Question [Re: Fospher]
    #5718087 - 06/06/06 06:49 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

why didn't I take the blue pill;:lol:


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Invisibleraytrace
Stranger

Registered: 01/15/02
Posts: 720
Re: Question [Re: Diploid]
    #5718214 - 06/06/06 08:40 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

naturally i would go for the painful truth, though it may not be the wisest choice. the survival of the individual (and the specie) is dependent upon lies (assuming that such a thing as 'truth' exists anyway)


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
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Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
Re: Question [Re: raytrace]
    #5718253 - 06/06/06 08:59 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

raytrace said:
the survival of the individual is dependent upon lies




Elaborate, perhaps?

:earth: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
Re: Question [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5718267 - 06/06/06 09:05 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

painfull truth


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Question [Re: Fospher]
    #5718391 - 06/06/06 10:00 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Fospher said:





As a supplements specialist. I take one of each every day except sundays. :crazy2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Question [Re: Diploid]
    #5718557 - 06/06/06 11:15 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Swami??  :confused:


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Question [Re: Diploid]
    #5718581 - 06/06/06 11:22 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Which is better?

1. A pleasant lie.
2. A painfull truth.




So black and white.

Truths are subjective and or relative. You should've used "painful fact".

What if your father tells you that you suck at playing the piano and truly means it. You're piano teacher tells you that you are progressing faster that any other student and seem to have a natural inclination for music, and truly means it. You're little brother thinks you are the greatest at it, and truly means it.

Which is the truth? Why can't they all be even if they contradict each other?

What about painful lies? Why didn't you add that to the list.

What if your father, who's opinion matters to you, was lying, to motivate you to practice harder, because he truly you feels you have great potential?

What about the times, two people Joe and Rob, have plans for something and a great opportunity comes up for Joe on the same day. Rob, even though this was his only chance to sky diving for free and he really wanted it, knows Joe has been waiting for a chance like this to come up for years to live out a dream. Rob also knows, Joe is the sort of person keeps with his promises and won't bail on him, even Rob encouraged him too.

So Rob, wanting to give to Joe, tells Joe, he got really sick and can't go sky diving, leaving Joe free.

A total lie, that was painful in a way for Rob to tell, because he was disappointed for his loss, yet happy for Joe's gain at something. Because they have been best friends for 20 years, Rob ultimately feels Joe's gain is his gain anyway and that fulfills the sense of personal loss he temporarily had.

It's not so black and white when dealing with truths and fabrications of them.

However, facts are facts and give me those any day. If I think I am my rendition of Chopin is perfect and pride myself on it, I still would want anyone able to, to tell me if I missed 5 keys and 3 chords and which ones.

I would much rather have the chance to self correct through a painful fact, then live in a false fantasy, believing things as facts that are not so.

I agree with the statements regarding what utility comes from out of truths or fabrications of them.

Other then that, facts are facts, even if painful, give em to me straight, yet, it would be nice if you point out some pleasant facts as well as a water chaser. :lol:

Then again, I suppose it's more tactful in general to deliver a painful fact mixed with some pleasant facts to help it go down more easily and there is nothing wrong with mixed drinks either.

The juices in a Lynchburg Lemonade help the Jack Daniels to go down more nicely and whats so wrong, with making life more pleasant and  smoother, to ease the rough edges?

And yet, we must be careful with what is presented as science fact because at times, honest mistakes were made and fact can become fiction as time and more information come into play.

Look at those people taking that heart medication because the FDA said it was totally safe in all research testing done, and at the worst, they may experience mild side effects, and people started keeling over dead from it.

There are the sorts of facts that change as new information comes into play. Not all facts are fixed. Some end up having to give and flex later on up the road.


In short, you're preposition isn't a true reflection of how actual reality goes down and is played out.

As much as some people need to know what actually is and what isn't so they can feel safe and secure, life isn't that cut and dry or black and white. Uncertainty abounds and surrounds and if it wasn't for that, there would be little growth.

Bruce Lee once said, "faith is good, yet doubt gives you an education."

To him, being sure one way or the other wasn't as important as any condition created that can give him reason to to further learn or understand something more deeply, either way.

Anytime, we have become 100% convinced of something either way, our growth stops dead in that area.

Ever believe you were truly prepared for something, and then, let some doubt creep in, and then get the idea to put a few more eggs in the basket, and those few extra eggs paid off having with you?

Then again, ever have doubts about something, (because of fear, mistrust or lack of confidence in general) and they rendered you paralyzed and you blew a shot at what was sure thing, from hindsight. Doubt and skepticism can also blind us from realizing truths and what could have become new fact of life.

That further education, may sometimes include learning more about how doubt doesn't always serve us.

I personally think that our mental, emotional and physical health is dependent on a good balance of the fixed and flexible being present in our lives.

We need some fixed to have some foundation and framework for stability as we move around, and yet, without the flexible, we get trapped within the all fixed by our fear of the unstable and flexing parts of life.

Food for your thoughts diploid. None of this may ever resonant for you, and yet, perhaps it will at least serve to help you understand others who are not like you.


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Invisibleraytrace
Stranger

Registered: 01/15/02
Posts: 720
Re: Question [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5718598 - 06/06/06 11:26 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

why do parents nurture their children with all sorts of lies?


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InvisibleVeritas
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Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Question [Re: raytrace]
    #5718645 - 06/06/06 11:40 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Not all parents nurture their children with lies (even pleasant ones).

Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, Bogeyman in the closet...these are all culturally accepted lies which parents tell their children.

I explained to my sons (at a fairly young age), that I did not intend to lie to them about these mythological figures. I told them that sometimes people can understand invisible ideas better when they can picture them as a being.

I avoid lying to my sons as much as possible, and will say "I don't want to talk to you about that," rather than fabricate a story to cover up something which is none of their business.

Even a "pleasant" lie can be a betrayal of trust, when you are lying to someone who loves you and believes that you know everything.


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OfflineFospher
Crime FightingMaster Criminal
Male

Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 2,033
Loc: The Netherlands
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
Re: Question [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5718776 - 06/06/06 12:27 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Nothing is absolute.  :thumbup:


--------------------
010001100100001001000101!


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