Home | Community | Message Board

NorthSpore.com BOOMR Bag!
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | Next >  [ show all ]
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5719145 - 06/06/06 02:23 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Diploid has a long history here of misusing and misunderstanding the word 'mystic.'

Ask a hundred mystics to define the word, and they'll each make up a different definition, often contradicting each other. This is one of their biggest problems: they make things up.

Give me a definition used by most mystics, and I'll use it. Until then, mystics should clean their own house before they complain about my mess.

True mystics

No Scotsman is a thief.
But I know a thieving Scotsman.
Aye, he's not a true Scotsman.



-Mr. Diploid Extraverts his Sensing function
-is a form of denial
-and this seems to be Diploid's trip.


LMAO :rofl2:

If the contradictory evidence is persuasive, the Suicide Bomber resorts to questioning the integrity of the person presenting the evidence rather than addressing the evidence directly.



--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Edited by Diploid (06/06/06 03:50 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5719161 - 06/06/06 02:29 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Suicide bombers hold hate, fear and anger in their hearts and confusion in their minds.

According to Suicide Bombers, they hold the love of God above all else in their hearts and blow themselves up to gain His favor.

You and the Suicide Bomber present opposing arguments supported by exactly zero evidence. How am I to know which is right?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: Silversoul]
    #5719187 - 06/06/06 02:37 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Mystics draw their beliefs from direct experience of the divine.

From an interview with a Suicide Bomber whose bomb failed to explode:

"It’s as if a very high, impenetrable wall separated you from Paradise or Hell," he said. "Allah has promised one or the other to his creatures. So, by pressing the detonator, you can immediately open the door to Paradise — it is the shortest path to Heaven."

"The power of the spirit pulls us upward, while the power of material things pulls us downward," he said.


Sounds like a direct experience of the divine (or self-delusion) to me. Just like every other mystic. :shrug:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: Diploid]
    #5719196 - 06/06/06 02:42 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Diploid has a long history here of misusing and misunderstanding the word 'mystic.'

Ask a hundred mystics to define the word, and they'll each make up a different definition, often contradicting each other. This is one of their biggest problems: they make things up.

Give me a definition used by most mystics, and I'll use it. Until then, mystics should clean their own house before they complain about my mess.

True mystics

No Scotsman is a thief.
But I know a thieving Scotsman.
Aye, he's not a true Scotsman.




Sorry man, but you're not getting out of it that easily. We've all been pretty clear on what a mystic is: It's someone who has direct experience/access to the divine(as opposed to someone who follows the dogmas of others). This has been explained to you before.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: Silversoul]
    #5719206 - 06/06/06 02:45 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

We've all been pretty clear on what a mystic is: It's someone who has direct experience/access to the divine

Did you not read the excerpt of a Suicide Bomber's "direct experience of the divine"? Or are you calling him a liar when he claims to know God's wishes for him?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: Diploid]
    #5719221 - 06/06/06 02:50 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
We've all been pretty clear on what a mystic is: It's someone who has direct experience/access to the divine

Did you not read the excerpt of a Suicide Bomber's "direct experience of the divine"? Or are you calling him a liar when he claims to know God's wishes for him?



Even if some suicide bombers claim to have mystical experiences, that does not mean that suicide bombers as a group can be classified as mystics. Mysticism is certainly not a defining feature of suicide bombers.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: Diploid]
    #5719271 - 06/06/06 03:00 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Diploid, I can appreciate the frustration you seem to be in about people YOU label mystics, not being able to even give the same definition of what one is and that they may at times even come up contradictory.

You see that as one of the biggest faults or problems with "mysticism".

Its the biggest BEAUTY of it.

Its like that because there is no set rule to follow which defines one or ones way. That means, there is also NO DOGMA to it. Mysticism, in large part, is about a continuation of liberation and freedom, through discovery. Mystics would be anyone, who keep exploring, uncovering and discovering new truths. With that, they shed and let go of those previously held, with ease.

There is no rule book for what makes a mystic a mystic. There is no rule book for how to become a mystic. There is no rule book for what makes a right mystical practice and a wrong mystical practice.

In essence, there really is No such thing as a mystic that can be defined. That's why I don't understand why people bother with labeling others with the word. 

The definition of the word itself is a mystery to be unraveled.

However,  Jew, Muslim, Catholic,  what have you has a book of definitions and rules and in them that are fixed and set. They don't change or expand with time and new discovery and information. You will find your set dogma. You're right, some mystics make up life and the truth for themselves, from out of the truth of life as it reveals itself to them.

In short diploid, you are shooting bullets at an elusive target. It's like shooting bullets into water expecting to injure or kill it.

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: Silversoul]
    #5719274 - 06/06/06 03:00 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Even if some suicide bombers claim to have mystical experiences...

So, SOME Suicide Bombers are mystics, but other are not?

Mysticism is certainly not a defining feature of suicide bombers.

According to your definition, mystics are:

Quote:

someone who has direct experience/access to the divine




How do you know that only "some" Suicide Bombers are mystics and the rest aren't?

To know this from your definition, you would have to be inside the head of a Suicide Bomber in order to determine that his motivation is not from "direct experience/access to the divine" and so he doesn't qualify as a mystic.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5719297 - 06/06/06 03:04 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

There is no rule book for what makes a right mystical practice and a wrong mystical practice.

So, when a Suicide Bomber is moved by God (or kids himself into believing this) to blow himself up, it's as 'right' as when a priest befriends a homeless person and offers him shelter.

If there's no rule book for determining right and wrong, as you say, then Suicide Bombers are as righteous as helpful priests.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5719386 - 06/06/06 03:23 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Diploid appears to be closed and rigid of thought. It seems as if he's speaking in absolutes rather than propositions.

It's an essay written for the purpose of inviting opposing views to see if my own views need updating.  :wink:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: Diploid]
    #5719394 - 06/06/06 03:25 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

They think and believe themselves to be just as much as the helpful priest does. Maybe they just love murder and destruction and pose as people committing righteous acts to get support for their il cause. Who knows what goes on in their minds or even how much they themselves even believe the reasons they give for why the do what they do? :shrug:

What we have are human beings in this world. No matter what people believe in or not, act on or not, good or bad, they never stop being a human being until the fat lady sings.

Where does it stop with you? :lol:

Tall people are good and right because I am.

Short people are bad and wrong because I am not.

Pepperoni pizza is good and right because I like it best.

Vegetable pizza is bad and wrong because I don't like it.

Plato is a good and right philosopher because I understand his view.

Aristotle is a bad and wrong philosopher because I don't understand his view.

Is this how you go through life diploid?

How do you know, suicide bombers aren't brainwashed into service by some malevolent higher being and are not getting rewarded with virgin sex in the after life? Can you show proof or evidence of this?

Will you at least distinguish between those who think murder of innocent strangers is justifiable and those who don't.

Then from there will you at least distinguish between those who find it to be justifiable in self defence and further those who never think its justifiable, but accept it as a fact of the current human condition.

You could find a mystic, islamist, logician, and scientist in all 3 of those belief categories.


What you do is like saying, One six year old likes cherry lolli pops best so all 6 years olds must like cherry lolli pops best.  :confused:


:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5719421 - 06/06/06 03:33 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Will you at least distinguish between those who think murder of innocent strangers is justifiable and those who don't.

jigz, you contradict yourself as usual.

If there is no rule book, there can be no distinction between the two. :crazy2:

In essence, there really is No such thing as a mystic that can be defined.

Are you calling Markos, SS, and others liars?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Edited by Diploid (06/06/06 03:48 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: Diploid]
    #5719505 - 06/06/06 03:55 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Will you at least distinguish between those who think murder of innocent strangers is justifiable and those who don't.

jigz, you contradict yourself as usual.

If there is no rule book, there can be no distinction between the two. :crazy2:




Dips, I was not talking about any rules of mysticism because there are none. I was asking you to better distinguish who fits where within your own dogmatic rule book of right and wrong moral action.

If your problem is with people who believe suicide bombing for any reason is good and right, then, your problem is with them. The label ends there. People who believe suicide bombing is good. Lets shorten it up to just Suicide Bombers

How in the hell did the little old lady down the street who talks to garden fairies and the other who reads tea leaves become suicide bombers in your rule book?

That what I was asking you to get clear on, your own rule book, from whatever brand of dogmatic religion you practice.

When I do contradict myself and I do, its because I am free to see things from differing perspectives and have learned that the best application and approach to one thing, would be the worst one for another. I can flex and bend, cuz I'm a mystic. :smile:

If I want to take my drywall down, smashing a hammer into it is the best approach. If I want walls to keep in the AC, taking a hammer to it, is the worst approach.

The world isn't one size fits all.


Quote:

In essence, there really is No such thing as a mystic that can be defined.

Are you calling Marcos, SS, and others liars?





Your the one trying to call mystics liars. I respect the fact that we all have differing views, self truths and opinions based on our unique experiences in life. I even respect yours, however and may I note, they seem to be at more peace with theirs and you don't seem to be at much peace with yours. Think about that.  :wink:

If something brings someone to a place of peace that calms and mends, inner turmoil and conflict, I would say, they discovered a pretty noble truth for themselves that serves them well, whatever it may be.

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5719529 - 06/06/06 04:01 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I was asking you to better distinguish who fits where within your own dogmatic rule book of right and wrong moral action.

This discussion is not about me. It's about mystics. :shake:

and you don't seem to be at much peace with yours.

LMAO :rofl2:

If the contradictory evidence is persuasive, the Suicide Bomber resorts to questioning the integrity of the person presenting the evidence rather than addressing the evidence directly.

Anyone starting to see a pattern here? Hello?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: Diploid]
    #5719538 - 06/06/06 04:04 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Unfortunately, yes.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: Diploid]
    #5719547 - 06/06/06 04:06 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
I was asking you to better distinguish who fits where within your own dogmatic rule book of right and wrong moral action.

This discussion is not about me. It's about mystics. :shake:





Not exactly. It's about your comparison of suicide bombers and your idea of what a mystic is.

I don't have John Edwards confused with a Jihading suicide bomber, or Japanese kamikaze Pilot.


:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5719573 - 06/06/06 04:13 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

It's about your comparison of suicide bombers and your idea of what a mystic is.

Nope.

The discussion is about A comparison of suicide bombers and AN idea of what a mystic is.

Philosophy 101. Get it straight.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: Diploid]
    #5719794 - 06/06/06 05:15 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:

The discussion is about A comparison of suicide bombers and AN idea of what a mystic is.

Philosophy 101. Get it straight.




What's to discuss then? The objective essay, compares an idea of what a mystic is with a suicide bomber.

And?

Do you want people to agree with that? :shrug: Okay, I can do that. :cool: An idea of a mystic is a suicide bomber. :grin:

Now, where did I put dynamite bomb belt? I like to wear it when I meditate.

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #5719847 - 06/06/06 05:32 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I don't understand why you and others have so much trouble separating people from ideas.

Here's a suggestion: imagine my post was posted anonymously and you had no idea it was me, then try again.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Female User Gallery

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: Diploid]
    #5719901 - 06/06/06 05:42 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

That wouldn't change a thing I wrote. The inquistive, seeking understanding and wanting healing for all, aspect of me would still be wondering about the fear of the unknown, the annonymous writer of it was in. :shrug:

How can one logically or rationally separate ideas from people when ideas come from people? If an idea alone doesn;t make sense to me, I have to question the author of it. :shrug:

Its like reading a book with parts that don;t make sense and you don;t have the author right there to clear it up for you so you can understand what they meant to say and where they are coming from.

That's one of the beauties of learning off message board authors. You can ask them questions to better understand the things they say that don't make sense to you.

If we are never allowed to ask personal questions, we are left to come to our own conclusions or just walk away from something with questions unanswered.

Thats what I am going to choose to do. Walk away from this one now.

Here's something from one of my fav lyrical authors-

Everybody do the twist
Get the message off Fleas Fist


Guess what he has tatooed on it?

:peace: :heart:


--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Chilling Look Inside The Mind Of A Suicide Bomber
( 1 2 3 all )
DiploidM 8,002 57 03/10/07 11:21 AM
by Huehuecoyotl
* The Psychology of the Suicide Bomber ThorA 857 13 09/14/08 12:40 PM
by psyka
* What is wrong with suicide?
( 1 2 3 4 ... 19 20 )
SneezingPenis 19,732 380 10/27/11 02:44 PM
by PeopleAreDifferent
* suicide
( 1 2 3 4 all )
OldWoodSpecter 4,697 69 05/13/06 04:00 PM
by Icelander
* Mysticism - The Ultimate Science Source 1,568 18 04/09/04 11:44 PM
by Swami
* Is suicide a selfish act?
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
headvoid 7,535 87 11/02/06 08:58 PM
by fireworks_god
* mysticism, ego, false conciousness.... NiamhNyx 776 5 01/21/04 06:52 PM
by kaiowas
* suicidal attraction
( 1 2 3 all )
wearejellyfish 4,533 57 02/19/07 03:58 PM
by Drewwyann

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
5,111 topic views. 1 members, 15 guests and 21 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.028 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 15 queries.