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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: Diploid]
#5716043 - 06/05/06 06:06 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Suicide bombers hold hate, fear and anger in their hearts and confusion in their minds.
Mystics work to clear all of that up and work to hold universal love, understanding, forgiveness and peace in their hearts and clarity of mind.
Take a look again at how mystics were the enemy of the church and religions heads that wanted to control people through hate , fear, dogma and confusion. The mystics were out to put a stop to that, so the church killed them when ever they found them.
:heart
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: Diploid]
#5719271 - 06/06/06 03:00 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Diploid, I can appreciate the frustration you seem to be in about people YOU label mystics, not being able to even give the same definition of what one is and that they may at times even come up contradictory.
You see that as one of the biggest faults or problems with "mysticism".
Its the biggest BEAUTY of it.
Its like that because there is no set rule to follow which defines one or ones way. That means, there is also NO DOGMA to it. Mysticism, in large part, is about a continuation of liberation and freedom, through discovery. Mystics would be anyone, who keep exploring, uncovering and discovering new truths. With that, they shed and let go of those previously held, with ease.
There is no rule book for what makes a mystic a mystic. There is no rule book for how to become a mystic. There is no rule book for what makes a right mystical practice and a wrong mystical practice.
In essence, there really is No such thing as a mystic that can be defined. That's why I don't understand why people bother with labeling others with the word.
The definition of the word itself is a mystery to be unraveled.
However, Jew, Muslim, Catholic, what have you has a book of definitions and rules and in them that are fixed and set. They don't change or expand with time and new discovery and information. You will find your set dogma. You're right, some mystics make up life and the truth for themselves, from out of the truth of life as it reveals itself to them.
In short diploid, you are shooting bullets at an elusive target. It's like shooting bullets into water expecting to injure or kill it.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: Diploid]
#5719394 - 06/06/06 03:25 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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They think and believe themselves to be just as much as the helpful priest does. Maybe they just love murder and destruction and pose as people committing righteous acts to get support for their il cause. Who knows what goes on in their minds or even how much they themselves even believe the reasons they give for why the do what they do? 
What we have are human beings in this world. No matter what people believe in or not, act on or not, good or bad, they never stop being a human being until the fat lady sings.
Where does it stop with you? 
Tall people are good and right because I am.
Short people are bad and wrong because I am not.
Pepperoni pizza is good and right because I like it best.
Vegetable pizza is bad and wrong because I don't like it.
Plato is a good and right philosopher because I understand his view.
Aristotle is a bad and wrong philosopher because I don't understand his view.
Is this how you go through life diploid?
How do you know, suicide bombers aren't brainwashed into service by some malevolent higher being and are not getting rewarded with virgin sex in the after life? Can you show proof or evidence of this?
Will you at least distinguish between those who think murder of innocent strangers is justifiable and those who don't.
Then from there will you at least distinguish between those who find it to be justifiable in self defence and further those who never think its justifiable, but accept it as a fact of the current human condition.
You could find a mystic, islamist, logician, and scientist in all 3 of those belief categories.
What you do is like saying, One six year old likes cherry lolli pops best so all 6 years olds must like cherry lolli pops best. 
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: Diploid]
#5719505 - 06/06/06 03:55 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: Will you at least distinguish between those who think murder of innocent strangers is justifiable and those who don't.
jigz, you contradict yourself as usual.
If there is no rule book, there can be no distinction between the two. 
Dips, I was not talking about any rules of mysticism because there are none. I was asking you to better distinguish who fits where within your own dogmatic rule book of right and wrong moral action.
If your problem is with people who believe suicide bombing for any reason is good and right, then, your problem is with them. The label ends there. People who believe suicide bombing is good. Lets shorten it up to just Suicide Bombers
How in the hell did the little old lady down the street who talks to garden fairies and the other who reads tea leaves become suicide bombers in your rule book?
That what I was asking you to get clear on, your own rule book, from whatever brand of dogmatic religion you practice.
When I do contradict myself and I do, its because I am free to see things from differing perspectives and have learned that the best application and approach to one thing, would be the worst one for another. I can flex and bend, cuz I'm a mystic. 
If I want to take my drywall down, smashing a hammer into it is the best approach. If I want walls to keep in the AC, taking a hammer to it, is the worst approach.
The world isn't one size fits all.
Quote:
In essence, there really is No such thing as a mystic that can be defined.
Are you calling Marcos, SS, and others liars?
Your the one trying to call mystics liars. I respect the fact that we all have differing views, self truths and opinions based on our unique experiences in life. I even respect yours, however and may I note, they seem to be at more peace with theirs and you don't seem to be at much peace with yours. Think about that. 
If something brings someone to a place of peace that calms and mends, inner turmoil and conflict, I would say, they discovered a pretty noble truth for themselves that serves them well, whatever it may be.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: Diploid]
#5719547 - 06/06/06 04:06 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: I was asking you to better distinguish who fits where within your own dogmatic rule book of right and wrong moral action.
This discussion is not about me. It's about mystics.
Not exactly. It's about your comparison of suicide bombers and your idea of what a mystic is.
I don't have John Edwards confused with a Jihading suicide bomber, or Japanese kamikaze Pilot.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: Diploid]
#5719794 - 06/06/06 05:15 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said:
The discussion is about A comparison of suicide bombers and AN idea of what a mystic is.
Philosophy 101. Get it straight.
What's to discuss then? The objective essay, compares an idea of what a mystic is with a suicide bomber.
And?
Do you want people to agree with that? Okay, I can do that. An idea of a mystic is a suicide bomber.
Now, where did I put dynamite bomb belt? I like to wear it when I meditate.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: Diploid]
#5719901 - 06/06/06 05:42 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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That wouldn't change a thing I wrote. The inquistive, seeking understanding and wanting healing for all, aspect of me would still be wondering about the fear of the unknown, the annonymous writer of it was in. 
How can one logically or rationally separate ideas from people when ideas come from people? If an idea alone doesn;t make sense to me, I have to question the author of it. 
Its like reading a book with parts that don;t make sense and you don;t have the author right there to clear it up for you so you can understand what they meant to say and where they are coming from.
That's one of the beauties of learning off message board authors. You can ask them questions to better understand the things they say that don't make sense to you.
If we are never allowed to ask personal questions, we are left to come to our own conclusions or just walk away from something with questions unanswered.
Thats what I am going to choose to do. Walk away from this one now.
Here's something from one of my fav lyrical authors-
Everybody do the twist Get the message off Fleas Fist
Guess what he has tatooed on it?
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: niteowl]
#5721383 - 06/07/06 12:08 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
niteowl said: So your claiming all religious people to be mystics?

Get over yourself already.
From my experience and observations a mystic is one who has shed their religious dogma and found their own path to "god".
With this definition any person quoting from any religious text/dogma.....can't be a "mystic"
Now, if your going to label anyone who doesn't agree with your POV a mystic...then I guess you're right...everyone's a mystic except you 
Worse is, its seems like he is saying anything that falls under any one of the myriad of mystical definitions is following the doctrines of a religious faith. 
Thats just funny. I ran the other way from the Catholic Churches dogmatic nonsense as soon as I was old enough too. Most of my spiritually aware friends, (people dip would call mystics) oddly are EX Catholics too. One thing we all have in common is exactly what you said niteowl.
We were put off by the dogma and sought our own ways to live a better life based on our own personal preferences and what felt right and true and or works for us as individuals.
At another forum I participate in, we are always independently changing, and re-modifying our understanding of the big picture. We like to come together to compare notes , pick up tips to try out, relate, entertain differing views and insights, yet ultimately, we choose and decide for ourselves what or what not to believe in and respect our differences most of the time.
Every now and then someone will get a wild hair up their ass and tell someone their idea is horse shit and then they calm down and realize, their behavior was that of an ass, and then everyone laughs, loves and forgives and lives quite peacefully in respect of differing views, together again.
There is a core foundation that allows for it to be so year after year there. We all practice, understanding and forgiveness best we can not because it is the right or morally correct thing to do. We do it because it feels good and more freeing to do it.
FG, I think you called it when you said an arbitrary word like "mystic" was used to vent anger and frustration at Catholics and "others" who practice dogma that teaches one to murder strangers, so they can get laid by ghosts, and earn their family some pay to live on, for doing the job.
And you are right, this thread is a waste of my time too. Most of the "mystics" here will never be the dogmatic, anti science Catholics fearing eternal damnation and some neurotic, jealous vengeful god OR become suicide bombers for Allah as dip imagines them to be. And Dip as of now, isn't showwing signs of bothering to work at understanding that.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: Diploid]
#5721424 - 06/07/06 12:20 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Arn't you doing the same thing by getting into personalisms saying people at a philosophy forum don't know how to have a philosophical debate? That's a personalism.
And, I think people are still trying to figure out what it is you think is being discussed/debated if not the proposal that suicide bombers think just like mystics.
Everyone is telling you that it is a laughable statement, and so we don't know what is here to take seriously to discuss and debate other then why you think that way.
I'll ask you again, what are we suppose to be discussing here?
You seem to just want people to agree with you that all mystics are suicide bombers and Catholics.
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
#5721520 - 06/07/06 12:40 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I have an idea that may help you understand others diploid.
How bout I put up a post that says
Child Rapists and other Scientists- A Critique
Child rapists believe a larger body of mass can be forced into a smaller body of mass.
Scientist believe this too.
A child rapist believes that when it gets an idea for a new possibility, it should first work it out in theory and if that works, it should test it out for real next.
A scientist believes that too.
A child rapist believes it has its rights to impose its will unto experimenting with smaller and helpless life forms.
Scientists believe that too.
End example post.
You get the idea. Sometimes, the only way we can understand another is to be put in their shoes. Can you maybe see why people are calling your post strawman now?
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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