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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique
#5715401 - 06/05/06 03:01 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Suicide Bombers hold arbitrary beliefs that cannot be verified or falsified. They hold these beliefs with such fervor, that they are blinded to all alternatives. They never admit even the possibility that they may be wrong and stick to their beliefs in the face of evidence contradicting them. If the contradictory evidence is persuasive, the Suicide Bomber resorts to questioning the integrity of the person presenting the evidence rather than addressing the evidence directly.
When Suicide Bombers are cornered in debate, they make recourse to invisible beings who happen to hold the same principles and ideals they do. Since these beings cannot be seen, heard, or questioned, it is not possible to show the Suicide Bomber that he is wrong even if it is the case that he actually IS wrong.
When a Suicide Bomber is asked a hypothetical question he knows will draw out and highlight faults, omissions, and contradictions in his beliefs, he refuses to answer and verbally attacks the questioner rather than address the question.
Suicide Bombers do not seek to update their beliefs or to find Truth; they stagnate and seek only to support their bygone conclusions. They spin new information to make it 'fit' into their world view rather than treat the information neutrally, allowing it to fit or not fit on its own. If the information can be spun enough to fit, it's kept. Otherwise, it's summarily discarded without being considered.
When other types of mystics tell the Suicide Bomber he is wrong and try to explain why, the Suicide Bomber tells the other types of mystics that it is THEY who are wrong and for the exact same reasons!
Suicide Bombers are closed and rigid of thought. They speak in absolutes rather than in propositions: "this is how it is" rather than "this is how it appears to be" or "I am not wrong" rather than "I don't think I'm wrong".
So, Suicide Bombers:
-make up things -decide those made up things are real -refuse to consider anything that undermines their made up things -spin or discard new information to support their made up things -act according to those made up things as if they were real, all the while avoiding everything that might contradict them.
Now replace Suicide Bombers above with the following and see how it works: astrologer, priest, psychic, telekineticists, telepathists, remote viewer, clairvoyant, psychic surgeon, numerologist, Christian, pope, UFO caller, third-eye seer, santero, crystal wearer, 2012 nut, astral projector, spoon bender, levitator, George Bush...
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#5719145 - 06/06/06 02:23 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Diploid has a long history here of misusing and misunderstanding the word 'mystic.'
Ask a hundred mystics to define the word, and they'll each make up a different definition, often contradicting each other. This is one of their biggest problems: they make things up.
Give me a definition used by most mystics, and I'll use it. Until then, mystics should clean their own house before they complain about my mess.
True mystics
No Scotsman is a thief. But I know a thieving Scotsman. Aye, he's not a true Scotsman.
-Mr. Diploid Extraverts his Sensing function -is a form of denial -and this seems to be Diploid's trip.
LMAO 
If the contradictory evidence is persuasive, the Suicide Bomber resorts to questioning the integrity of the person presenting the evidence rather than addressing the evidence directly.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
Edited by Diploid (06/06/06 03:50 PM)
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
#5719161 - 06/06/06 02:29 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Suicide bombers hold hate, fear and anger in their hearts and confusion in their minds.
According to Suicide Bombers, they hold the love of God above all else in their hearts and blow themselves up to gain His favor.
You and the Suicide Bomber present opposing arguments supported by exactly zero evidence. How am I to know which is right?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: Silversoul]
#5719187 - 06/06/06 02:37 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Mystics draw their beliefs from direct experience of the divine.
From an interview with a Suicide Bomber whose bomb failed to explode:
"It’s as if a very high, impenetrable wall separated you from Paradise or Hell," he said. "Allah has promised one or the other to his creatures. So, by pressing the detonator, you can immediately open the door to Paradise — it is the shortest path to Heaven."
"The power of the spirit pulls us upward, while the power of material things pulls us downward," he said.
Sounds like a direct experience of the divine (or self-delusion) to me. Just like every other mystic.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: Silversoul]
#5719206 - 06/06/06 02:45 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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We've all been pretty clear on what a mystic is: It's someone who has direct experience/access to the divine
Did you not read the excerpt of a Suicide Bomber's "direct experience of the divine"? Or are you calling him a liar when he claims to know God's wishes for him?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: Silversoul]
#5719274 - 06/06/06 03:00 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Even if some suicide bombers claim to have mystical experiences...
So, SOME Suicide Bombers are mystics, but other are not?
Mysticism is certainly not a defining feature of suicide bombers.
According to your definition, mystics are:
Quote:
someone who has direct experience/access to the divine
How do you know that only "some" Suicide Bombers are mystics and the rest aren't?
To know this from your definition, you would have to be inside the head of a Suicide Bomber in order to determine that his motivation is not from "direct experience/access to the divine" and so he doesn't qualify as a mystic.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
#5719297 - 06/06/06 03:04 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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There is no rule book for what makes a right mystical practice and a wrong mystical practice.
So, when a Suicide Bomber is moved by God (or kids himself into believing this) to blow himself up, it's as 'right' as when a priest befriends a homeless person and offers him shelter.
If there's no rule book for determining right and wrong, as you say, then Suicide Bombers are as righteous as helpful priests.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: MushmanTheManic]
#5719386 - 06/06/06 03:23 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Diploid appears to be closed and rigid of thought. It seems as if he's speaking in absolutes rather than propositions.
It's an essay written for the purpose of inviting opposing views to see if my own views need updating.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
#5719421 - 06/06/06 03:33 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Will you at least distinguish between those who think murder of innocent strangers is justifiable and those who don't.
jigz, you contradict yourself as usual.
If there is no rule book, there can be no distinction between the two. 
In essence, there really is No such thing as a mystic that can be defined.
Are you calling Markos, SS, and others liars?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
Edited by Diploid (06/06/06 03:48 PM)
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
#5719529 - 06/06/06 04:01 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I was asking you to better distinguish who fits where within your own dogmatic rule book of right and wrong moral action.
This discussion is not about me. It's about mystics. 
and you don't seem to be at much peace with yours.
LMAO 
If the contradictory evidence is persuasive, the Suicide Bomber resorts to questioning the integrity of the person presenting the evidence rather than addressing the evidence directly.
Anyone starting to see a pattern here? Hello?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
#5719573 - 06/06/06 04:13 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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It's about your comparison of suicide bombers and your idea of what a mystic is.
Nope.
The discussion is about A comparison of suicide bombers and AN idea of what a mystic is.
Philosophy 101. Get it straight.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
#5719847 - 06/06/06 05:32 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I don't understand why you and others have so much trouble separating people from ideas.
Here's a suggestion: imagine my post was posted anonymously and you had no idea it was me, then try again.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: Basilides]
#5720359 - 06/06/06 07:39 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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it would help if you actually knew what a mystic is
Alright, educate me. What's a mystic?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: Basilides]
#5720422 - 06/06/06 07:56 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I see. Then SS is in error when he defines mystic differently above, yes? And jiggy too?
And if I take the time to do a quick search, I suppose I will find a couple hundred Shroomerites who have also erroneously defined mystic over the years.
I'm glad you cleared things up.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: niteowl]
#5720732 - 06/06/06 09:07 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Thanks for yet one more new and contradicting definition. 
Be that as it may, read again the interview exerpt I posted above. The would-be Suicide Bomber being interviewed sounds to me like he meets your definition of mystic.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: Basilides]
#5721068 - 06/06/06 10:38 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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A suicide bomber may have a belief in God. It basically ends there as a cognitive distortion (willfully perverting a consistent mythology). As far as I can see, their conception of God lays around the bottom of the barrell as far as primitive, mypoic attempts to understand a universal archetype goes.
Are you aware that Suicide Bombers say the same thing about you and they are just as credible?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: niteowl]
#5721141 - 06/06/06 10:58 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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suicide bombers.....have been indoctrinated into a religious cult
Not according to Suicide Bombers themselves. They claim to have direct, personal knowledge of God and God's wishes and they deny indoctrination. They claim their actions are at God's direction and that they know this because God makes his wishes known to them directly.
Your statement about Suicide Bombers being indoctrinated is baseless and contradicted by the many interviews and writings they've produced.
Or do you claim to know the heart and mind of the Suicide Bomber better than the Suicide Bomber himself?
Mystics do not rely on another persons dogma
This must be why the Catholic Church (a bunch of mystics if ever there was one) used dogma to Inquisition Galileo for stating that the Earth is not at the center of God's universe, and subsequently sentenced him to life in prison.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: fireworks_god]
#5721152 - 06/06/06 11:00 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I simply do not have the time to reproduce every single absolute declarations you have expressed in this thread.
I already covered this.
Quote:
It's an essay written for the purpose of inviting opposing views to see if my own views need updating.
Besides, I can back most of my 'absolutes' with interviews of Suicide Bombers and their ilk.
And once again, this isn't a debate about me, it's about Mystics. If I act like a mystic in this thread (which I don't think I have), pointing it out is an irrelevant ad hominem and you of all people should know better.
The debate is about Mystics, not about Diploid.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
Edited by Diploid (06/06/06 11:41 PM)
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: fireworks_god]
#5721168 - 06/06/06 11:05 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Read my edit.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Suicide Bombers and Other Mystics - A Critique [Re: fireworks_god]
#5721238 - 06/06/06 11:22 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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start to play semantical games, questioning which definition is actually the one being referred to
Woah man. What's up with this.
I didn't start playing semantical games. It was everyone else who started bitching about my 'improper' use of the word mystic. I just asked for clarification (and got a half dozen conflicting definitions instead). WTF else am I supposed to do when I'm told my usage is wrong?
Don't blame ME for that.
You repeatedly issue statements concerning who these people are and who they aren't...these people of straw that you propose.
Those statements are based in their own words gathered from interviews and writings, not straw. Why am I wrong to restate what they themselves have stated?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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