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OfflineCanisdormit
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Registered: 11/10/01
Posts: 84
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
What in the hell?
    #571457 - 03/06/02 12:33 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Ok, so I was reading on several spore vendor's sites. Most have little write ups on the high associated with each subspecies of cubensis. How in the hell can a high be different(ie, one's more mellow, one's completely visual, etc.)? Isn't it psilocybin and psilocin that cause the high anyway? The only difference should be the level of "high". More psychoactives=more high.

My question is, how can each subspecies produce a different high? I don't think they can. I think that the differing levels of psychoactives and setting produce different levels of highness, and that any so called "unique" highs associated with any particular subspecies is due to different settings/mindsets/etc. If there really IS some proveable difference in the high, it would have to be caused by some other active compound within different subspecies (I don't know of any others, if you do, please enlighten me).

So, if I have 2 piles of extracted psilocybin, one colored red and one green, and I say, "The green one gets you more of a feeling high and the reb one gets you a visual high" wouldn't that be nonsense, because it's all psilocybin, so it should all give the same effects?


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If humans are what they eat, I'm just a huuuuuuge mushroom.


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Offlinedougis
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Registered: 03/06/02
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Re: What in the hell? [Re: Canisdormit]
    #571484 - 03/06/02 01:05 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I was thinking the same thing when i read similar stuff, but i got to the thinking and remembered dank (weed), and different weed will give you different highs because of the impurities in it, just look at sativa and indica, all thc, but totally different high. this is just my theory, just a thought i thunk a while ago. an actual anser would be good to though.

Dougis

" you cant deny the doug " - doug (amoung others)


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OfflineLSD_4me
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Registered: 02/09/02
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Re: What in the hell? [Re: dougis]
    #571494 - 03/06/02 01:16 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

exactly... the people who say all cubies are the same do you think that all weed is the same too... and no dank doesnt just have more THC than dirt.... because dirt weed can give you head aches and shit, there is defintiley a difference in the type of high from kind bud and dirt... and even different strains of indica and sativa are different highs, so two really good "kind" types of weed could have totally different highs, just like 2 different strains of cubies can give you a different high, when you think about it it doesnt make much sense, but then when you apply the THC analogy than you really cant deny that its possible, and from many reports it seems to be true that different strains provide different highs...


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Offlinevatoloco
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Post deleted by MOE THE MAD SCIENTIST [Re: LSD_4me]
    #571527 - 03/06/02 01:45 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)



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OfflineMAIA
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Re: What in the hell? [Re: vatoloco]
    #571535 - 03/06/02 01:57 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

There are other active compounds besides psilocybin and psilocin on shrooms, baeosticin (spp) is one of them. Erowid.org has info about it.

Peace,
MAIA


--------------------
Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala



Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire


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Offlinerommstein2001
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Re: What in the hell? [Re: vatoloco]
    #571536 - 03/06/02 01:58 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Acually there are 15 different compounds in pot that get you high, but they are collectively known as THC. About the shrooms, think of it this way. every person is made of the same basic things, but we are all different, with different personalities, same with shrooms, all have diff. personalities. But what may explain it logically, maybe different combo's of Psilocybin, psilocin, and baeocystin produce different effects.


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OfflineCanisdormit
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Registered: 11/10/01
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Re: What in the hell? [Re: rommstein2001]
    #571603 - 03/06/02 03:43 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

First of all, weed is a plant; which is a much more complex organism than a fungus, that's why weed has more compounds in it that mess with your head. THC is definately not the only psychoactive compound in weed.
For those of you who have vaporizers, here's something you can do that will blow your mind.
If you can adjust the heat (and this is important) to just above the vaporization point of thc, and use the vaporizer, you'll get "high". Now, the stuff that's left over is void of thc, but when you smoke it, you still notice an alteration of your consciousness; but it's not the same euphoric "high" that you'd get if THC was still present (when I've done this, I get a fuzzy feeling throughout my body, but not a normal "high"). I'm guessing that the effects of these other compounds are overpowered by the effects of THC.

It could be similar in fungus. If it is the same (ie, some other psychoactives are present, whatever they are) as the weed scenario, the psilocin and psilocybin should overpower, or greatly mask, the other chemicals.
So, to say that Mexican cubensis gives more of a "body" trip than an all out visual trip is correct, but it isn't because of some special properties of the Mexican cubensis, it's because the Mexicub just isn't as potent. If there are other acting agents, then they'd certainly be more noticeable if you aren't tripping.

Now, what I'd like to know is, how many other psychoative chemicals are present in cubensis subspecies, what are they, what do they do when taken alone (as an extract or synthesis)?

What if there's a little hidden chem in there somewhere that's responsible for activating other psychoactives within the mushroom? What if one compound is solely responsible for visual hallucinations, while another is for auditory and tactile?

Does anyone have any reference books (ie NOT internet sources) that deal with these questions?



--------------------
If humans are what they eat, I'm just a huuuuuuge mushroom.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Re: What in the hell? [Re: vatoloco]
    #571610 - 03/06/02 03:49 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

> I wish I could site my source, but THC isn't the only active compound in the weed.

THC-Delta 9 is the primary source of the mental high in cannabis. If I remember correctly as the plant ages, THC levels drop and CBD levels rise. CBD is the primary source of the body high (sleepy, lethargic, etc). Typically you want high THC and low CBD. There are other chems in there as well... around 25-30 that may also be active.

(-)-[delta 1]-3,4-trans-tetrahydrocannabinol (most active cannabinoid)
(-)-[delta 6]-3,4-trans-tetrahydrocannabinol
tetrahydrocannabitriol (aka cannabitriol)
cannabidiolic acid
cannabidiol
cannabinol (forms after plant dies)
THC acids A and B (inactive unless heated)

among others...


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinefungichick
Your mom
Registered: 11/21/01
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Who knows? Good question [Re: Canisdormit]
    #571785 - 03/06/02 08:06 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

It seems like everyone had lots of input on THC and weed but little on psychoactive fungus.... I honestly haven't a clue as to why there can be a different physical/mental "high" associated with different strains of mushrooms. I know different strains can have varying amounts of psilocybin and psilocin in them but you're right - why can different strains have such a different effect?
At first I thought this was silly and honestly a bunch of crap. Until I started growing various strains and found out that different strains can produce different effects. Sometimes just a body high, fuzzy head, crazy visuals...sometimes you'll feel relaxed, sometimes anxious. It does a lot of the time seem to be strain specific.

I've tried looking into this myself, searched online and read books on ethnomycology for hours on end. I even did some...personal "research" with my friends over a period of time. So far I haven't come up with much other than from my experience - YES different strains can have completely different highs. It would be nice to know why/how strains have varying effects. Maybe a wise and kind ethnomycologist knows the answer and will share with us their vast knowledge.


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Offlinevatoloco
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Post deleted by MOE THE MAD SCIENTIST [Re: fungichick]
    #571933 - 03/06/02 11:18 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)



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OfflineLSD_4me
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Registered: 02/09/02
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Re: Who knows? Good question [Re: vatoloco]
    #571955 - 03/06/02 11:46 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

i believe thats what she was saying, everytime i eat a certain strain i feel the same.


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Offlinefungichick
Your mom
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Re: Who knows? Good question [Re: vatoloco]
    #571982 - 03/07/02 12:13 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Very consistent.

I agree that environment can define a trip. I also firmly believe that different strains do produce different types of highs. So far my experience with this has been very consistent. EQ's have always consistently given me a very mellow overall happy fuzzy feeling. Whether I've grown them or obtained them elsewhere. Whether I'm sitting at home in my room, at a friend's playing video games or out dancing to a live DJ. This weekend 4 different people consumed EQs from the same batch at different times in their own individual settings. All reported back to me that they had a happy warm fuzzy mellow feeling. I did not tell them in advance how I felt with the EQ's nor were any of them

A friend of mine ordered a strain from Psylocybe Fanaticus and those have consistently given me a very nervous/anxious feeling no matter what the setting. (Don't get me wrong I LOVE PF - if it wasn't for the PF Tek I probably would have never started growing mushrooms) In fact the last trip I had on those mushrooms made me so horribly anxious I wont eat the strain he grows anymore. Finally he asked me why, I told him and he let me know 6 other people including himself felt very anxious with that strain.

I've also tried Golden Teacher, Tasmanian, Pink Buffalo and various others. The "high" may be similiar in some cases but for the most part they all seem to have their own "individual" high.

Who knows why different strains produce different reactions. No, it makes absolutely no sense to me, and has frustrated me to no end. I am a firm believer in figure it out for yourself and make your own decision. My suggestion is try out different strains and experience it for yourself.


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OfflineHumboldtHort
newbie
Registered: 02/13/02
Posts: 40
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
Re: What in the hell? [Re: Canisdormit]
    #572006 - 03/07/02 12:44 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Something analogous to this would be the fact that San Pedro cactus and Peruvian Touch are in the same genus but have different akaloids and differing amounts. The trips are different. This is kind of off topic, but I totally disagree with your statement Canisdormit about plants being more complex organisms than fungi. Anyway, there's definitely a difference.


--------------------
A gram is better than a damn


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OfflineLSD_4me
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Re: What in the hell? [Re: HumboldtHort]
    #572046 - 03/07/02 01:31 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

thank you... personally i think it probabally has to do with differing levels of other compounds... but i dont know and i really dont care, i think its cool different strains provide different highs... set and setting do play a rol on the trip everyone knows that but when your an experienced tripper you can tell the difference... and you know its not just a setting thing...


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OfflineCanisdormit
journeyman
Registered: 11/10/01
Posts: 84
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
Re: What in the hell? [Re: HumboldtHort]
    #573435 - 03/06/02 11:29 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

"but I totally disagree with your statement Canisdormit about plants being more complex organisms than fungi"

So, are you saying that fungi and plants are of equal complexity, or fungi are more complex than plants? I bet you'd also say that animals aren't any more complex than protozoans? I think you are an idiot for stating that.

Most of you guys seem to think that it's varying levels of chemicals, but that means that there're more chems. present.
Is there anyone here who can get extracted or synthetic Psilocin and/or psilocybin?


--------------------
If humans are what they eat, I'm just a huuuuuuge mushroom.


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