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InvisibleBlowmonkey
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Re: Gummihuasca experiment - Black Currant Juice to increase mushroom effects - Please contribute [Re: shneck]
    #5584537 - 05/03/06 07:16 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Anyway, you can believe whatever you choose even if it is against a statistically wide range experience and lab tests, you're a free man in a free world and God bless your ignorance, amen.




My ignorance? Excuse me? I'm not trying to take this all too seriously, but that's kinda hard when you fall back on petty things like this.

Quote:

I've already said it several times - there's so damn easy way to check it, one try is enough to stop this silly dispute.




Guess you still haven't read my answers to that then.

Quote:

that's not placebo, that's not an influence of set and setting, how many times should it be repeated - what is so difficult to understand here?




Repeat it as many times as you like. The only thing difficult to understand here is you people.

Quote:

Look, mate, your arguments could well work in a theoretical scientific discussion among people who had never or rarely tried it, this is the field research and all your theoresizing falls short




It doesn't actually, but it falls on deaf ears overhere.


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Offlineshneck
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Re: Gummihuasca experiment - Black Currant Juice to increase mushroom effects - Please contribute [Re: Blowmonkey]
    #5584715 - 05/03/06 09:51 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

OK, man, let's call it a day then.


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OfflineEdgekrusher
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Re: Gummihuasca experiment - Black Currant Juice to increase mushroom effects - Please contribute [Re: shneck]
    #5585239 - 05/03/06 12:53 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Does this argument perpetuate the experiment? Theorizing is lots of fun, but hands on experimentation is deffinitely a step up. I did it, and have no regrets concerning the matter.

I don't do psychedelics... so let me argue about them? You've deffinitely hit deaf ears here.

Any more complaints? Or does someone have something worthwile to say?


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OfflineNuclear_Shroom
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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: Edgekrusher]
    #5589334 - 05/04/06 10:55 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

wow thats insane! i like blackcurrent juice! yum!


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Offlinemannaseeyah
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Re: Gummihuasca experiment - Black Currant Juice to increase mushroom effects - Please contribute [Re: infinitedot]
    #5598279 - 05/06/06 07:24 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Syrian rue has MAOI harmaline within it, at high levels of concentration known throughout the middle east it may have been consumed in conjunction with manna (mushroom) to form a mush-rue. Is it not possible that this is infact where our language derives the name of the entire family of friendly edible and no so friendly fungus? I think so.

Happy thinking.


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OfflineWordlessNature
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Hmmm... [Re: mannaseeyah]
    #5674326 - 05/25/06 09:26 PM (14 years, 13 days ago)

Reading some of this post, I am a little baffled by the arguments contained within. My first contention is to wonder how it is one could say that subjective reports are meaningless, since we are examining the effects of the black currant juice upon an experience which is ultimately subjective in the first place. The person contemplating this combination is not likely to care whether or not it is scientifically supported (I am guessing that it isn't, but it doesn't really matter). Moreover, this is a poll based on the collection of individual experiences *with this combination*. Therefore, I would contend that any furthur antagonism is a tiresome waste of space. I am much more interested in reading what people who have done this are saying about their "anecdotal" experiences. It might be wise to save the rest for scientific discussion somewhere else.


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Offlineoathofsamurai
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Re: Hmmm... [Re: WordlessNature]
    #5677646 - 05/26/06 06:36 PM (14 years, 12 days ago)

less blah blah blah more reports please


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OfflineCptnGarden
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Re: Hmmm... [Re: oathofsamurai]
    #5677789 - 05/26/06 07:24 PM (14 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

oathofsamurai said:
less blah blah blah  more reports  please




:thumbup:


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Offlinegoldenapple
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last night [Re: CptnGarden]
    #5713034 - 06/05/06 12:08 AM (14 years, 2 days ago)

- How experienced are you with psychedelics?: been exploring for over ten years
- Days since last trip on psychedelics: last night i smoked some dmt
- Black Currant Juice brand: Looza
- What reads the concentration on the label?: 30%
- Juice Quantity: 1L
- Mushrooms species: Psilocybe Cubensis B+ Outside grow
- Mushrooms Quantity: .3 gr dry, 9 gr fresh
- Did you know the potency of the mushrooms beforehand? (Y/N): No. First two mushrooms to come up.
- Hours since last meal: 8 h.
- Did you put your mushrooms in a coffee grinder for a while until you got a fine powder? (Y/N): Ground them, but not to a fine powder
- Did you soak the mushrooms in lemon/lime or BC juice as in STEP 5? (Y/N): Yes, 20 minutes with two lemons
- Description of effects compared vs. no juice:
- Description of effects compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice:
- Are you positively sure that there IS definitely an improvement in potency? (Y/N): Y, unless those were some crazy mushys growing
- Estimated potency compared vs. no juice: 4X-5X
- Estimated potency compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice: Haven't tried with just juice
- Estimated total potency:
- Time to "first alert" (aka, "whoa, something's definitely going to happen"): 20 mins.
- Time to onset of visual disturbance: 30 mins.
- Time to peak (rough estimate): 2.5 hours
- Time to first sign of diminishing effects: 5 hours
- Time to baseline (indiscernable effects): 7 hours
- Further comments you might want to add to your experience: Crazy Crazy Night. Super intense visuals. Great mind work. The visuals were up there with 7 to 8 grams, while the mind fuck was below 3. I had decided to go to the grocery to get some broccoli. once inside everyone looked the same with these fat round faces which kinda freaked me out. I was by myself with lots of talking and laughing. quite fun, although at times i was very sad. over all some great mind work and totally amazing visuals. heavy animal and insect motif. mushrooms usually bring out insects for me, various roaches and bugs with long legs but this time included large cats and snakes. quite crazy. One thing that really surprised me were the 'real' cats i was around. usually they are very affectionate, and while on in psy land they are pretty crazy and all over me, although tonight they were running away...not sure what vibes i was putting off. i spent a long time moving in circles, both with my thoughts and physical movements. i found it very hard to figure out what to do with my self, with is very different from most experiences. over all seemed to have a bit more of a negative vibe to it. not sure if this is due to the maoi or not. i picked two more mushys today, 14gr. will try this with just juice and see where i go (i know a lot of this can simply be set and setting too)...over all much more than i expected. and longer than i expected. seemed to last longer than just straight mushrooms...

i was certainly feeling information overload, and out of curiosity put that into google and laughed for quite a while with all the books that came up. i was quite amused by that. i went back and forth between simulis and no stimulus. i was rather sensitive and could only deal with something for a few minutes and then would need to change what i was doing. at times it felt a bit like a fever...weird.

when i was out in the world i felt very happy and excited for everyone around me, enjoying a beautiful summers night. at this point i was listening to ween as the stallion part two ended and i was on top of the world, totaly crazy, laughing talking to myself. then the new flaming lips album came on. it was good at first, but soon became much too heavy. at this point my feelings towards people changed and i just wanted to get away from everyone. but it was a saturday night in a big city and people were everywhere. i made it back home rather freaked out unable to really acomplish much of anything. i was rather paranoid and felt i must clean and orginize which didn't go well at all. finally i decided to take a shower and this is where things got even weirder. i was washing my face and as i closed my eyes and my hands went over my eyes the world vanished. sound went away. no appearnce of light coming through my eyes and very intense visuals. it was very amazing, but i started to worry about doing this while standing in the shower so i made my way to the bed which only took about 25 mintues to put sheets on...lol...

there i was able to relax finally. i listened to a little grateful dead which was very soothing...i shut off the music after a while and this is where i started seeing the cats coming after me. there were red and green lights around the dark apartment from smoke detectors and dvd players, stereos, etc. these began darting back and forth and rushing towards me. at this point it reminded me very much of a 7 to 8 gram experience. i knew i could let them over take me or not look at the lights. i probably should have let them overtake me but i decided to block the light :smile:

wow, this is really out of order...

anyway, wonderful experience. not too scary although had the potential. wouldn't want to take too much more than i did.

and i wish i would have found out what would of happened if i let the  psy cats attack...

btw this was the first time i had ever ground up a fresh mushroom. i was surprised to see it all turn electric blue. pretty cool. i am also surprised that you can barely touch them, wash them off with out it turning very blue. this was a first harvest and i am very impressed. especially for contam cakes!

also why i was off in lala land i was thinking about why, if dmt and psilocin are so similar what is it about psil. that makes you build a tolerance, while with dmt you can keep on rolling?


Edited by goldenapple (06/05/06 12:56 AM)


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Offlineshneck
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Re: last night [Re: goldenapple]
    #5714241 - 06/05/06 11:12 AM (14 years, 2 days ago)

Now some guru will explain you that it was nothing but a placebo effect, just an extremely powerful one :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

Great report, mate, and nicely written!

As for DMT and psilocin tolerance issue, I think it's because of different ingestion method. With DMT smoked or injected, the effects are intense but short-lived. If I am not mistaken, orally administered DMT in ayahuasca builds up (cross)tolerance as effectively as psilocin/LSD/mesc. This may be caused by the longer (timewise) effect the active molecules exert on serotonin receptors causing them to shut down in more massive way than in case of relatively short-living effect of DMT i/v or smoked. Just my suggestion.

Peace.


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Offlinehippie_cune
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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: shneck]
    #5754020 - 06/15/06 05:41 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

cool to know.. ill have to try and find some juice..

kinda retarded how it was presented as the whole gummy bear thing..


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: hippie_cune]
    #5756473 - 06/16/06 09:54 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Having proven its merit, this thread is no longer seperately sticky'd in the Psychedelic Experience forum, but rather is stickied as part of the PE forum's Important Links thread Please continue contributing to this fascinating subject and know it is stickied still, except now under the Links Thread.


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OfflineDivinePsychosis
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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: Asante]
    #6194041 - 10/21/06 01:07 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

- How experienced are you with psychedelics?:10 or 11 4 or 5 gram trips with homegrown mush.Slight experience with SD.Frequent use of marijuana,and very limited experience with LSA.
- Days since last trip on psychedelics: Around 3 months, with 4 or 5 grams of dried cubensis.Marijuana smoked regularily and recently.
- Black Currant Juice brand: Ribena Original
- What reads the concentration on the label?: "no dilution ratio included on the label.Makes 5 times its volume."
- Juice Quantity: 210 ml. = 7 oz.
- Mushrooms species: Psilocybe Cubensis
- Mushrooms Quantity: 1.2 gr. dry
- Did you know the potency of the mushrooms beforehand? (Y/N): No, First sample of recently harvested batch.
- Hours since last meal: 8 h.
- Did you put your mushrooms in a coffee grinder for a while until you got a fine powder? (Y/N): No.Mushrooms were cut and chipped into small pieces manually.
- Did you soak the mushrooms in lemon/lime or BC juice as in STEP 5? (Y/N): Yes, for 20 minutes, squeezed 2 fresh lemons.
- Description of effects compared vs. no juice:
- Description of effects compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice:
- Are you positively sure that there IS definitely an improvement in potency? (Y/N):99% sure.
- Estimated potency compared vs. no juice: 3X-4X
- Estimated potency compared vs. Lemon/Lime juice:
- Estimated total potency:5X
- Time to "first alert" (aka, "whoa, something's definitely going to happen"): 15-20 mins.
- Time to onset of visual disturbance: 50 mins to an hour.
- Time to peak (rough estimate): 2 hours
- Time to first sign of diminishing effects: 4 hours
- Time to baseline (indiscernable effects): 6 hours
- Further comments you might want to add to your experience:I just want to say the experience I had last night was my most powerful.I've always dosed with higher amounts,usually around 4 grams dry and have just barely reached the point of introspection and revelation I had last night.I've also tooken lower doses before,around 2.5 grams and have had slightly milder but still quite powerful trips.I'm quite sure I wouldn't have had such a powerful experience off of as little as 1.2 grams if it weren't for the blackcurrent juice and lemon soaked shrooms.When effects started coming on I was sure it was going to go the full way.I was sitting on my futon in my room when my thoughts started speeding up and the answers to issues of interest I had previously not fully understood became revealed with the utmost clarity.Life no longer seemed so machine like and trivialized as I let myself go and drift into the psychedelic experience.There was no longer a need to understand things from a lingustic viewpoint as I realized experience was the ultimate reaffirment with which to base my life,beliefs,and ideals.A little while after my thoughts had sped up I strangely enough felt as though the experience was dying down before it had truly reached its peak.I felt quite upset that the experience didn't deliver what it seemed to be building up to,was it dying down already?

I proceeded to load some homegrown bud into my glasswork pipe and began taking hits as I thought the shrooms were dying down,it turns out I was wrong.After smoking the marijuana I almost instantly felt the power of the mushroom sweep over me and carry me away.Usually when I smoke marijuana while on shrooms it ruins the beauty and visuals and sends me down more of a zany thought pattern,this wasn't the case this time around.The marijuana seemed to send me hurling into mushroom land instead of lending any effects of its own to the experience.

What followed after smoking the marijuana can't be described with any feeble language system implemented in everyday life.From what I can remember the peak of the experience started with heavy introspection into the meaning of reality at large.The answers to reality and the cosmic joke were revealed to me through extremely precise and affirming visuals aswell as through thought alone.I realized time was never part of any cosmic process and that it was but a mere illusion programmed into our minds from birth by modern society.Time is infact just a flimsy system of numbers used to guide modern society through the chaos of the everexpansive universe.Every moment is indeed present within every other moment.I understood the past and the now are infact one in the same and only seem to be seperate from one another through the universal syntax ever refining and redefining itself to bring forth new novelty into our dimension.In short I understood that the now was really just the past taking on a new variation of itself.

After spending a good while lying down on my futon in silent darkness I had to go to the washroom.I then proceeded to walk up the stairs out of my bedroom and towards the washroom near the kitchen,and it was at this point that the trip started to make a transition from the introspective to the artistic.As I was walking up the stairs everything was paled and hidden from view by the darkness,and all I could see were beautiful fractal patterns bursting to life and dazzling my eyes.When I reached the main floor of my house there was light shining into my living room from the full moon through the open windows surrounding the living room.I looked around amazed at the celestial beauty the living room had taken on and observed how my surroundings came to life as if I was standing in the middle of a 3d beautiful mosaic picture.

After I had took in the beauty of my surroundings I continued on my way to the bathroom.I had noticed while walking to and from the bathroom that everything around me was indescribably beautiful in the psychedelic state I was in.

When I made my way back to my room I lay back down on my futon and entered back into another train of thought that eventually revealed itself in a series of smooth flawlessly enchanting visuals.This last series of visuals was to do with visionary art and how the physical world is slowly changing and being influenced by the psychedelic community to better encompass and make the psychedelic landscape manifest itself into reality permanatley.I got the sense that what the mushroom was portraying to me through this particular set of visuals was that we as a human species are heading into the realm of the imagination,and the physical world bound by elements and scientific law isn't our true home.

After the last visual sensation manifested the experience died down slowly and gradually everything returned back to normal.


Edited by DivinePsychosis (10/21/06 01:15 PM)


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OfflineCerebro
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Re: *** Gummiberry juice experiment: Black Currant Juice + Lemon Juice = 10X Potency!! *** [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #6225732 - 10/30/06 01:19 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)




Edited by Cerebro (10/30/06 02:22 AM)


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OfflineKangKoopa
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Re: Gummihuasca experiment - Black Currant Juice to increase mushroom effects - Please contribute [Re: Blowmonkey]
    #6389036 - 12/20/06 05:17 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

So what i do is soak shroom dust in lime/lemon juice bout 2 OZ's and shoot that, and then drunk the currant juice?


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Offlineboomstain
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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: Psiloman]
    #7685777 - 11/27/07 02:25 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks Psiloman for broadening the discussion on MAO inhibitors. I'd like to add that:

A) MAO-A inhibits the breakdown of serotonin (which SSRIs and MDMA raise via different mechanisms and thus the combination with MAO-A inhibitors can potentially be fatal), norepinephrine, tyramine, dopamine, and many tryptamine-based psychedelics, including to some extent psilocybin/psilocin (although its my understanding that [unlike say DMT] this is not the major way they're broken down but that rather the liver enzyme P450-3A4 is likely the major metabolizing enzyme, with MAO-A being secondary) Thus MAO-inhibition in and of itself could not be expected to increase shrooms effects by say 5x. This is born out by the limited mushroom augmentation exhibited by moclobemide, another MAO-A inhibitor.
Therefore - and I'm no expert either - its my opinion that its likely that the black current juice, unlike moclobemide or harmala which despite potently inhibiting MAO-A are far less potent mushroom augmenters, is also inhibiting the primary enzymes responsible for psylocibin a/o psilocin breakdown, not just MAO-A].

B) MAO-B inhibits the breakdown of dopamine, norepinephrine, tyramine, phenethylamine, and some phenethylamine stimulants and psychedelics. (FYI whereas tryptamines tend to be broken down by MAO-A and the liver enzyme P450-3A4 [which is inhibited by 1/3 liter of grapefruit juice and also by myricetin, the main flavanol in black currant juice], phenethylamines on the other hand tend to be metabolized by MAO-B and the liver enzyme P450-2D6.) As a general rule, the small simple ones (serotonin, DMT, phenethylamine) are metabolized by MAO, and the big substituted ones (4-OH-DIPT, MDMA) are metabolized by the liver P450 enzymes. Psilocybin/psilocin seem to fall somewhere in between.
Anyway, you'll notice that MAO-A and B both break down norepinephrine, dopamine, and tyramine. That means that as long as you don't inhibit BOTH MAO-A and MAO-B you aren't likely to end up with an extreme amount of tyramine/norepinephrine and have a hypertensive crisis from eating the wrong food or taking the wrong cough medicine. On the other hand, only MAO-A breaks down serotonin, so an MAO-A inhibitor alone plus an SSRI, Effexor, Cymbalta, MDMA, 5HTP, or Meridia (all raise serotonin) can be fatal. As Psiloman pointed out, we don't even know what kind of MAO inhibitor black currant juice is; and while its perhaps unlikely its fully non-selective (or irriversible) its still possible, so it seems dietary restrictions should be followed. Also, at high doses many MAO-A inhibitors lose their selectivity and become MAO-B inhibitors too (this starts to happen to moclobemide at 900mg) - and since everyones' metabolism is different, someone out there could be in trouble if they ate the wrong food - so better safe than sorry. Also, SSRIs must be avoided.
American prescription MAOIs certainly can be very dangerous if combined with many foods or medications and would be almost certainly fatal combined with MDMA due to the likelihood of both severe serotonin syndrome (which happens when you combine MDMA, SSRIs, Effexor, Meridia, 5HTP, or Cymbalta with MAO-A inhibitors) and hypertensive crisis (which happens when you combine combined MAO-A/B inhibitors with tyramine or any other stimulant).

C) Finally, in regards to mechanism of action, my suspicion is that its not the quercetin or vitamin C found in nearly every other fruit juice that's responsible for the extra augmentation, but rather a combination of an unknown MAO-A inhibitor plus myricetin (and possibly other P450-3A4 inhibitors) which are preventing all major routes of metabolism of the shrooms active ingredients which is providing the profound increase in activity. I suppose I could test this by substituting 16 oz grapefruit juice plus 300mg moclobemide for the black currant juice, but the 3A4 inhibitor in grapefruit juice isn't absorbed from the GI tract (where it nevertheless often has a very large effect on various meds, drugs, etc) so I'm not sure if it'd be an accurate experiment. Besides, I'm not that invested in my theory, and be black current juice works, so I'll stick with that. Cheers!


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InvisibleNimbot
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Re: Gummihuasca experiment - Black Currant Juice to increase mushroom effects - Please contribute [Re: infinitedot]
    #8296745 - 04/17/08 05:43 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

Ok, I really want to try this. Sorry if the question has been asked before, but I really don't have the time to read this entire thread. I can't find the Gummi Bears, can I substitute Gummi Worms? I think they're made from the same stuff.:confused:


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Invisibledysphoria
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Re: Gummihuasca experiment - Black Currant Juice to increase mushroom effects - Please contribute [Re: Nimbot]
    #8296819 - 04/17/08 06:00 PM (12 years, 1 month ago)

first, this thread is hella old.
second, read the fucking post or gtfo.

third...only bears will work, you'd know this if you read the post. worms will give you violent diarrhea.


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OfflineLiteBrite
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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: HeavyToilet]
    #9204953 - 11/08/08 12:31 AM (11 years, 6 months ago)

has anyone tryed apple cider vinegar or actually, if it is just the acidity pepsi would work. if the acidity allows something else to take place. try other acidics in combination w the currant juice. the cocentration of the juice probably makes for more acidity than realized.

a different view, i used to drink alot. i would dump about a half of squeezie lemon in a fifth of wiskey and drink the fifth pretty quick cuz it taste like lemonade. after the bottle was gone and the liquer store was closed i would grab some dank beer. i guess the lemon juice cleaned off my toungue or somethin cuz after i drank the lemon juice i could taste every bit of dankness about the beer. i could appriciate beer i usually didnt like.

also it is possable the currant juice is just converting psylocybin


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Offlinemyshroomyhead
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Re: *** BLACK CURRANT JUICE is a MAO inhibitor *** + Lemon Juice = 10X Effects?? [Re: LiteBrite]
    #9567701 - 01/07/09 11:36 PM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Black Currant Juice brand: Kumpf (from Germany)
Juice Quantity: ~1 liter 35%
Mushrooms species: Psilocybe Cubensis PES Hawaiian
Mushrooms Quantity: about 10 g wet
Did you know the potency of the mushrooms beforehand? (Y/N): Yes
Hours since last meal: 8 h
Description of effects compared vs. no juice: Mild Hallucinating, insight. ratio 3 to 1 needed for about the same trip-level.
Are you positively sure that there IS definitely an improvement in potency? (Y/N): Yes, absolutely
Estimated potency compared vs. no juice: 2x - 3x
Time to "first alert" (aka, "whoa, something's definitely going to happen"): 30 mins.
Time to onset of visual disturbance: 45 mins.
Time to peak (rough estimate): 2-3 hours
Time to first sign of diminishing effects: 4-5 hours later

For all the people who don't believe black currant juice acts as a MAO-inhibitor, here the proof!
Some scientists from Germany found out, that this plant indeed contains MAO-inhibitors.

"The black currant concentrate effects a 61% inhibition of MAO Type B, and an 37% inhibition of MAO Type A" [Page 7, Line 23-24]
In Humans: "MAO Type B activity is inhibited in all three subjects with dependency on dosage and time. Maximum inhibition is obtained 60 minutes after application, and is between 70 and 90% at optimum dosage of 20 grams."

quoted from this ebook

I wish you all happy experimenting with this wonderful juice.
I will continue using it, to intensify my experience.


Edited by myshroomyhead (01/08/09 03:42 PM)


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