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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
Scholar
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Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
Re: Haditha and the Psychosis of War [Re: Phred]
    #8215639 - 03/30/08 05:37 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 05:35 PM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: Haditha and the Psychosis of War [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #8215727 - 03/30/08 06:06 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quite a larger population of black males are in prison for crimes they did commit. Mostly against other black people.


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
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Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 18 days
Re: Haditha and the Psychosis of War [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #8216466 - 03/30/08 08:48 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

You are unable to possess a thought outside of what the fox guarding the henhouse tells you.




Au contraire. Unlike you -- a creature of reflexive Commie kneejerk sloganeering -- I am capable of rational thought. I am capable of making a distinction between Tyrone capping DeAndre on a Chicago street corner over a turf dispute and marines on patrol in a war zone faced with the need to make split second decisions. Have there been times when American troops killed Iraqis where the killings can be determined to fit any reasonable person's definition of "murder"? Certainly. Was Haditha one of those times? The more the results of the investigation are revealed, the more it becomes apparent that it wasn't one of those times.

And that's what this thread is about -- the rush to judgment by creatures such as John Murtha on matters of which they know exactly zero.

Quote:

You are precisely demonstrating my point about not be able to analyze an ethical situation independent from government propaganda.




Oh the irony. Even if every single person involved in this event were to be hooked up to a foolproof lie detector and their stories verified, you would refuse to believe them. Why? Because they are American. Don't talk to me about propaganda, comrade.

Quote:

Who decides what is murder?




In a war zone? Military tribunals. As your own links have shown, military tribunals have convicted and sentenced American troops for murder. More than once. This time, however, they have found that the majority of the defendants (and perhaps all of them... we have to wait and see) did not murder. Sorry about that, EP. I realize this frustrates you no end, but insulting me won't change facts on the ground.

Quote:

A philosophical assessment of a situation...




Which you have demonstrated yourself incapable of performing. You refuse to acknowledge the core philosophical distinction between what Tyrone is doing when he caps a drug rival or mugs a little old lady for her welfare check and what troops in a war zone do.

Quote:

...or the dictations of a self-serving entity who has demonstrated millions upon millions of time that it has no use for "justice" other than for a positive public relation stunt?




*Yawn* More mindless and baseless exaggerated Commie drivel.

Quote:

To trust a government to be objective in determining what is murder (or anything else)... a government that has let a convicted mass murderer go free after three and a half years confinement... is even more intellectually pathetic than to trust it regarding its pronouncements regarding "drugs".




So who should be entrusted with determining what is murder, comrade? Workers Councils? Tribal Collectives? Al Gore?

Quote:

You represent the outwardly delusions but internal greed of right-wing commentators who mock government financial incompetence ...blahblah blah seething incoherent Leftie mindless hate-filled drivel blah blah blah lack of rational thought blah blah blah...




Seriously.... there isn't any point engaging with someone so over-amped on mindless partisan hatred that they can't stitch three coherent sentences together. Take a valium and a few tequila shots, get some sleep, and move on. You're boring the hell out of the rest of us.




Phred


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
Scholar
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Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
Re: Haditha and the Psychosis of War [Re: Phred]
    #8216810 - 03/30/08 09:44 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 05:38 PM)


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
Scholar
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Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
Re: Haditha and the Psychosis of War [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8216957 - 03/30/08 10:10 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 05:38 PM)


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OfflineMushmonkey
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Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,867
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Re: Haditha and the Psychosis of War [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #8223035 - 04/01/08 04:13 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

EntheogenicPeace said:
Quote:

I am capable of rational thought.


Perhaps, but you've yet to demonstrate it. Until you can justify how murderers wearing a badge or a uniform representing the U.S. government do not deserve the same penalty (or no penalty at all in countless cases) as a murderer coming from a poor background in the U.S. is consistent with the phrase "Equal Justice Under Law", you haven't offered an explanation as to how such a system exemplifies 'justice', although you strongly assert it does.





Here's the difference.


Collectively, society is asking and sending these guys off somewhere with a bunch of guns and telling them to kill people.

Which people? The *bad* people.

Usually, they get it right. Sometimes, they get it wrong. Sometimes, they don't even try to discriminate. Sometimes, they know they've got it wrong but they do it anyway.

Each situation is different. Murder would only be the last -- when they know the people they are killing should not be killed but do so anyway. The first they get medals for. The second, if it's an honest mistake, they basically get a slap on the wrists. The third, they get punished, but it's more gross-negligence type shit and not outright murder.

That's different than, say, me shooting you, because I KNOW I shouldn't be shooting you (unless it was for self defense, in which case I SHOULD be shooting you and, shockingly, I wouldn't be punished for that at all!)



You are looking at sentencing and incarceration as a form of REVENGE. That is not what it is, and that is not how we decide what to charge people with when the option exists. It is a form of punishment with intents to rehabilitate.

If it was simply for revenge, any killing would recieve the same sentence.
As it is, mitigating circumstances change the punishment. Somebody who plans out a killing is a much greater threat to society than someone who falls asleep while driving and hits someone. Therefor the first killer gets a very harsh sentence, while the latter gets a lighter sentence.

A premeditated murder between civilians gets a harsh penalty, but so does a premeditated murder by a soldier -- the definition for murder from a soldier is much more specific, because killing people is exactly their job.


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
Exposer of Truth
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Registered: 08/13/03
Posts: 13,673
Loc: Smokey Mtns. TN Flag
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Re: Haditha and the Psychosis of War [Re: Phred]
    #8228509 - 04/02/08 12:49 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

The problem with Haditha is that soldiers are strained by being stop-lossed and some are in their 5th or 6th tours of combat, combined with a iraq populace that cares little for your efforts of taking them out of their stoneage. Each haditha creates another 10,000 terrorists and its events like these that are capitalized by the insurgents to show people that the americans are barbaric occupiers with little regard to human life while their own actions frequently kill their own people.

Iraq is fought on a scale of comfortability by politicians and generals who have little or no combat experience, in the beginning they made foolish actions, dissolving the iraqi army and police, dissolving their infrastructure and the result was energy shortages that still plague Baghdad and most Iraq, the destruction of water treatment plants, oil refineries and hospitals by insurgents still has the country plunged in extreme poverty. The destruction has zapped Iraqi coffers and it rests squarely on the Iran, the insurgents and America, The people who have everything to gain and everything to lose.

This will not be a whizz-bang war, it will last for years and it will only boil over into more violence.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Haditha and the Psychosis of War [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #8228649 - 04/02/08 01:24 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

The problem with Haditha is that nattering nitwits forced a fraudulent prosecution on completely innocent soldiers out of some post-Vietnam hatred of the military. The greatest post stress disorder in this country is to our resolution to act because of the lies fed by cocksuckers like John Kerry and the Winter Soldier liars. It has polluted the thought processes of a great many people, a resoundingly huge number of whom weren't even alive then.


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Posts: 13,673
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Re: Haditha and the Psychosis of War [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8228659 - 04/02/08 01:26 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Well prosecuting people for murder in the middle of a warzone is like handing out speeding tickets at the Indy 500.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Haditha and the Psychosis of War [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #8228683 - 04/02/08 01:33 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Not always.


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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
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Re: Haditha and the Psychosis of War [Re: zappaisgod]
    #8231414 - 04/02/08 11:18 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
The problem with Haditha is that nattering nitwits forced a fraudulent prosecution on completely innocent soldiers out of some post-Vietnam hatred of the military.




:rolleyes:

but its Soooo Cooooool.


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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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