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xDuckYouSuckerx
xBannedx


Registered: 05/25/06
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Re: Haditha and the Psychosis of War [Re: Basilides]
#5724054 - 06/07/06 07:24 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Basilides said: You're talking about this incident as if it is collateral damage. It is not by the Geneva convention. A group of soldiers were hit with an IED, one of them died, all of them went ape shit and started gunning down women and children. They were not obeying orders. They were subordinates attempting to cover it up so higher command wouldn't know about it.
If they knew that the people they were shooting were unarmed and civilians, then they should be tried. If they didn't, then they shouldn't.
Quote:
There are plenty of examples of what meets the standard of collateral damage in Iraq that involved small arms fire, not air strikes. A number of people, including a foreign European diplomat have been mistakened as a hostile and shot to death. This is entirely different than what is alleged to have happened in Haditha.
"alleged"
'nuff sed
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.


Registered: 10/03/04
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Re: Haditha and the Psychosis of War [Re: Basilides]
#8207241 - 03/28/08 04:57 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Basilides said: I don't understand how a small group of servicemen can committ such a horrendous atrocity. Why? Is it gestalt psychosis? I don't understand how someone can be so filled with hate as to just massacre a bunch of innocent people.
These soldiers should get the death penalty.
Haditha Charges Against Tatum Dropped
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Haditha Charges Against Tatum Dropped
Friday, March 28, 2008
The Marine Corps dropped its case and gave full immunity Friday to a serviceman who was accused of involuntary manslaughter in a squad's killing of 24 Iraqis in Haditha in 2005.
The case against Lance Cpl. Stephen Tatum, 26, of Edmond, Okla., was dropped as jury selection was about to begin for his court-martial. The government has been seeking Tatum's testimony against the squad leader, Staff Sgt. Frank Wuterich of Meriden, Conn. [Editor's Note: Haditha Marines still need your help! Click here now.]
In addition to two counts of involuntary manslaughter, Tatum had been charged with reckless endangerment and aggravated assault. Tatum's attorney, Jack Zimmerman, said there was no agreement with the government before the dismissal.
''Absolutely, there is no deal,'' he said.
Zimmerman said Tatum would testify if called as a witness in future trials but that he would testify as a neutral witness, not a government witness.
Camp Pendleton spokesman Lt. Col. Sean Gibson said the dismissal was signed by Lt. Gen. Samuel Helland.
The case stemmed from a squad's assault in response to a roadside bombing that killed one Marine and wounded two others.
The government says Wuterich and another Marine shot five men at the scene and the squad leader then ordered his men to clear homes with grenades and gunfire, killing unarmed civilians. Wuterich faces nine counts of voluntary manslaughter, aggravated assault, reckless endangerment and obstruction of justice. There is no date set for Wuterich's court-martial.
Wuterich's civilian defense attorney, Neal Puckett, contended that the Tatum dismissal showed the government has a poor case against his client.
''I think it's a further demonstration of how weak the government's case has become. Of the four Marines who fired weapons that day only one still faces charges,'' Puckett said.
Four enlisted Marines were initially charged with murder and four officers were charged with failing to investigate the deaths. Over time the case has shrunk, including removal of all murder charges. Tatum was the third enlisted Marine to have all charges dismissed.Only two officers remain charged.
The highest-ranking defendant is Lt. Col. Jeffrey R. Chessani of Rangley, Colo., commander of the Camp Pendleton-based 3rd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment at the time of the Nov. 19, 2005, Haditha killings. Chessani, accused of dereliction of duty and violation of a lawful order, has said he didn't order a formal investigation because he believed the deaths resulted from lawful combat. http://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/Tatum_Haditha_no_charges/2008/03/28/83811.html?promo_code=2A89-1
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.


Registered: 10/03/04
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Re: Haditha and the Psychosis of War [Re: lonestar2004]
#8207274 - 03/28/08 05:01 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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So far Eight were charged. Five have had all charges dropped.
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 05:27 PM)
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Re: Haditha and the Psychosis of War [Re: lonestar2004]
#8209871 - 03/29/08 11:47 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 05:27 PM)
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
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When does his case come to trial?
Phred
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
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Re: Haditha and the Psychosis of War [Re: Phred]
#8210157 - 03/29/08 12:54 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 05:28 PM)
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
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So wait a minute...
You say anyone who doesn't believe this defendant should get the death penalty (or at least life in prison if one opposes the death penalty universally), is (a) a pathetic excuse for a human being & (b) in no position whatsoever to claim moral highground on any issue, even though not only has the guy not been found guilty, but the trial hasn't even started yet.
That's being kinda judgmental, don'tcha think?
Phred
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



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Re: Haditha and the Psychosis of War [Re: Phred]
#8210695 - 03/29/08 02:58 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 05:29 PM)
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
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So this guy should be put to death before his trial has been held, is what you're saying.
Shades of the Duke "gang rape" case.
Phred
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



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Re: Haditha and the Psychosis of War [Re: Phred]
#8211272 - 03/29/08 05:32 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 05:31 PM)
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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What does that have to do with Haditha?
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
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Don't be such an ass.
First of all, the rape incident has nothing to do with Haditha. So why is it even being discussed in this thread at all? Someone more suspicious than myself might say it's because you -- EntheogenicPeace -- absolutely cannot bear to see an American ever exonerated of anything (for example, the ever-increasing number of ex-defendants in the Haditha case), therefore you are impelled to drag some other American into the thread you can point to as guilty. And (if someone-more-suspicious-than-myself were to make such a suggestion) I admit I would have a very hard time refuting such a charge levelled against you, since that actually has been your modus operandi in this forum from the day you began posting here. Someone shows that not everything Americans do is bad? No problem, says EP! Americans killed the Sioux, after all.
Second, I have never given my opinion on even the guilt or innocence of the black dudes to whom you refer, much less my opinion on what penalty they should receive if found guilty.
Third, I am not defending any guilty parties. I merely asked when the trial determining whether this guy actually is a guilty party will be held.
So climb down off your high horse, unwind those knickers currently turning your testicles such a lovely shade of purple, and take a deep breath before you burst a blood vessel with your self-righteous yet misdirected indignation.
Phred
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Luddite
I watch Fox News


Registered: 03/23/06
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Re: Haditha and the Psychosis of War [Re: Basilides]
#8213602 - 03/30/08 07:53 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
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Re: Haditha and the Psychosis of War [Re: Phred]
#8213915 - 03/30/08 10:44 AM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 05:33 PM)
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
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Quote:
If a poor black person in the U.S. murders a white civilian, then they get a very severe penalty (which can include death); & I won't argue with that.
You prove my point. You are incapable of staying on topic, if developments show that the Americans in question may not be evil people after all.
This thread isn't about the sentences civilian murderers (of whatever color) receive in the United States, this thread is about whether or not the actions of a specific group of marines on a specific mission in Iraq on a specific day can rightfully be considered murder or cannot rightfully be considered murder.
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However, if U.S. military personal murder a civilian in a country that they are occupying, then the penalty is much less severe, if at all.
You don't even read your own links, do you? You just plow on ahead, regurgitating whatever the reflexive Lefty party line happens to be, regardless of fact. When's the last time a black civilian murderer in the United States received a 110 year sentence?
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Because you have yet to address this discrepancy philosophically, you have to nitpick semantics & hide behind the propaganda of the state instead of addressing the fundamental issue independently of what the official line is.
The penalties in the military justice are substantially more severe than they are in the civilian justice system. This isn't semantic nitpicking, it's fact. As for "hiding" behind "propaganda" and not addressing the "fundamental issue", I'd say holding a trial before handing down a sentence is pretty fundamental. I realize you consider such procedures as trials to be needless nitpicking, but hey.... what should I expect from a Lefty?
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Here is but one instance you refuse to address objectively & independently regarding justice being served.
I don't "refuse" to address it, I merely point out that once again you are introducing off-topic stuff into a thread about the Haditha marines because you can't bear the thought that what the Haditha marines were accused of doing turns out not to be what actually occurred.
Phred
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EntheogenicPeace
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Re: Haditha and the Psychosis of War [Re: Phred]
#8214820 - 03/30/08 02:15 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 05:33 PM)
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 18 days
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Quote:
Again, you must have not read the links.
I read the links. None of them said even when the guy's trial is scheduled to begin. Certainly none of the links said the guy had been found guilty.
However, it's irrelevant, since the date of this other guy's trial has nothing to do with the fact that the longer the investigation continues, the more Haditha marines are exonerated of the charge of murder.
Quote:
If you are not capable or unwilling to discuss philosophy on this issue, & wish to defer to the U.S. government to make this decision for you, then just say so.
This has nothing to do with "philosophy" and everything to do with fact. The facts of the case are being revealed as the investigations continue, and they show that whatever those marines did on that day, it cannot legally be considered "murder". This is why the charges are being dropped.
Phred
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.


Registered: 10/03/04
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Quote:
EntheogenicPeace said:
If a poor black person in the U.S. murders a white civilian, then they get a very severe penalty
WTF
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Re: Haditha and the Psychosis of War [Re: lonestar2004]
#8215568 - 03/30/08 05:20 PM (15 years, 9 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (02/13/21 05:34 PM)
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