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OfflineBPJohnny
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side pinning (W/PICS)
    #5711564 - 06/04/06 03:08 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

ok so I have two casings right now, horse poo/50-50. they still havn't had their first flush
and have pulled away from the sides of the tray. its side pinning but no
pins at all on top!  :confused:i know how i could have prevented this and im kicking
myself in the ass but what can i do about it now?

i have pictures of the tops too but it wont let me upload them do to daily upload limits :crazy:




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Invisiblemonstermitch
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Re: side pinning (W/PICS) [Re: BPJohnny]
    #5711571 - 06/04/06 03:10 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I think maybe your casing layer or top is off.

Is it too acidic?

Mine often do this, but will still pin very well on the top, just some on the sides too, which don't bother me.

There must be a reason they are not pinning on top.
Did you follow hyphae's strategy?


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OfflineSnaggletooth
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Re: side pinning (W/PICS) [Re: monstermitch]
    #5711580 - 06/04/06 03:12 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

There could be may reasons why, but maybe it was the moister content was low, or was in the FC for a long time, with low RH.


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OfflineBPJohnny
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Re: side pinning (W/PICS) [Re: monstermitch]
    #5711587 - 06/04/06 03:15 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

it has started to knot up on top, but the pins on the side are way
farther along ya know. yes i have read hyphae's strategy quite a few
times. if the casing is to acidic is there anything i can do now to
bring the ph up? will it even help at this stage?


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OfflineBPJohnny
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Re: side pinning (W/PICS) [Re: Snaggletooth]
    #5711591 - 06/04/06 03:16 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

the Rh in the FC is about 94% i have 3 hygrometers in there *paranoia*
and one of the hygrometers is the cigar metal type


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Invisiblemonstermitch
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Re: side pinning (W/PICS) [Re: BPJohnny]
    #5711594 - 06/04/06 03:17 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

you can mist with a baking soda solution.
you can use a mini-pinch of hydrated lime in a solution.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...rue#Post5707489

I, myself, have a water alkalizing machine and I use high alkiline water out of that thing. My wife bought it for health benefits.


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OfflineBPJohnny
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Re: side pinning (W/PICS) [Re: monstermitch]
    #5711610 - 06/04/06 03:21 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I read that post too  :cool: but i was wondering what is the ph
of baking soda is there any chance of bringing it up to
high?


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Invisiblemonstermitch
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Re: side pinning (W/PICS) [Re: BPJohnny]
    #5711618 - 06/04/06 03:22 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

never used it before.

I think one of us should ask hyphae if he has some details on solution strength and usage amount.


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OfflineSnaggletooth
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Re: side pinning (W/PICS) [Re: BPJohnny]
    #5711623 - 06/04/06 03:24 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

BPJohnny said:
it has started to knot up on top, but the pins on the side are way
farther along ya know. yes i have read hyphae's strategy quite a few
times. if the casing is to acidic is there anything i can do now to
bring the ph up? will it even help at this stage?





Side pins happen cause as the case drys, it shrinks, and the space in between is a great microclimate, so the pins love it.


You could, beforehand fill the gap with vermiculite.


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OfflineBPJohnny
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Re: side pinning (W/PICS) [Re: monstermitch]
    #5711628 - 06/04/06 03:25 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

ok i googled it and baking soda has a Ph of 8 so it should be relativly
safe to use correct?


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Invisiblemonstermitch
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Re: side pinning (W/PICS) [Re: Snaggletooth]
    #5711631 - 06/04/06 03:26 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)



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OfflineBPJohnny
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Re: side pinning (W/PICS) [Re: monstermitch]
    #5711638 - 06/04/06 03:29 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

awesome thanks for finding that for me


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: side pinning (W/PICS) [Re: BPJohnny]
    #5711796 - 06/04/06 04:29 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Having a slightly acidic casing layer PH will not cause side pinning. Sure, you can mist with a bit of baking soda or hydrated lime in the water if you failed to balance the casing layer PH first, but as I said, that isn't the problem. An acidic casing layer will favor trichoderma and other molds, while mushroom mycelium is more tolerant of basic PH. This is the reason we use lime. As the mycelium colonizes the substrate, the metabolic byproducts produced begin to swing the PH lower. By the time pinning starts, you have a near neutral substrate which is what you want.

Casing layers pin on the sides for several reasons, but most important to remember, they pin there when that's the best environment for them to form primordia. The crease between substrate and tray is a perfect microclimate. It's nice and humid down there and there is plenty of moisture for the substrate to work with. It's also protected from the spray from the mister, which will damage developing primordia if they get sprayed and are allowed to remain wet. When the mycelium is actively reaching/colonizing the top of the casing layer, back off on misting. A sheet of wax paper can be layed on top to hold in the microclimate you're looking for. It helps to wrinkle it up into a ball, then spread it out again before laying on top of the casing. These wrinkles will ensure there is plenty of air circulating under the wax paper, while at the same time holding a high humidity level in your mini-environment under the wax paper.

It's normal for the substrate to shrink. It's more than loss of water because the mycelium is actually eating the substrate, therefore it naturally gets smaller over time.

At this point, I do not recommend liming the casing layer. You're trying to make it pin, not suppress trichoderma or other molds. If it only pins on the sides, you can be assured they'll grow into monsters. I doubt your total yield will be very much less, although it doesn't look as cool as a wild flush that hides the entire casing layer beneath a forest of mushrooms.
RR


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