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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Bush Pushes Gay Marriage Ban
#5710635 - 06/04/06 10:17 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticl...&archived=False
By Matt Spetalnick
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President George W. Bush on Saturday urged the Senate to pass a constitutional ban on same-sex marriage, in a congressional election-year pitch to conservatives whose enthusiasm for him has cooled.
The Senate next week plans to debate a proposed amendment against gay marriage, though it is believed to have little chance of passing.
"Marriage is the most enduring and important human institution, honored and encouraged in all cultures and by every religious faith," Bush said in his weekly radio address.
"Ages of experience have taught us that the commitment of a husband and a wife to love and to serve one another promotes the welfare of children and the stability of society."
Bush said a constitutional amendment was needed to keep "activist" judges from overturning efforts by some state legislatures to ban gay marriage.
But Joe Solmonese, president of the Human Rights Campaign, accused Bush of using the radio address to "appease his right-wing conservative base."
"At a time when Americans are tuning in to hear about issues they care about, he chose to spend the time advocating writing discrimination into the Constitution."
By Matt Spetalnick
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President George W. Bush on Saturday urged the Senate to pass a constitutional ban on same-sex marriage, in a congressional election-year pitch to conservatives whose enthusiasm for him has cooled.
The Senate next week plans to debate a proposed amendment against gay marriage, though it is believed to have little chance of passing.
"Marriage is the most enduring and important human institution, honored and encouraged in all cultures and by every religious faith," Bush said in his weekly radio address.
"Ages of experience have taught us that the commitment of a husband and a wife to love and to serve one another promotes the welfare of children and the stability of society."
Bush said a constitutional amendment was needed to keep "activist" judges from overturning efforts by some state legislatures to ban gay marriage.
But Joe Solmonese, president of the Human Rights Campaign, accused Bush of using the radio address to "appease his right-wing conservative base."
"At a time when Americans are tuning in to hear about issues they care about, he chose to spend the time advocating writing discrimination into the Constitution."
The bill's sponsor, Sen. Wayne Allard, a Colorado Republican, has acknowledged he has far fewer than the 67 votes needed to win passage.
At least 13 states have passed their own amendments banning gay marriage. Vermont and Connecticut have legalized civil unions. Just over half of all Americans oppose same-sex marriage, a March poll by the Pew Research center showed.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero


Registered: 06/29/04
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Re: Bush Pushes Gay Marriage Ban [Re: Diploid]
#5710649 - 06/04/06 10:24 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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why do gays want to get married so bad? The only reason I can think of, are the tax benefits. In that case, the govt should make a different form for legal couples (seperate from marriage), then this would seem to be resolved.
the problem is condoning homosexuality in the first place, thats the issue with the politicians it seems.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Bush Pushes Gay Marriage Ban [Re: kotik]
#5710651 - 06/04/06 10:25 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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why do gays want to get married so bad?
Why do so many people give a shit that they do?
Live and let live!
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Bush Pushes Gay Marriage Ban [Re: kotik]
#5710656 - 06/04/06 10:30 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
kotik said: In that case, the govt should make a different form for legal couples (seperate from marriage), then this would seem to be resolved.
It would only be resolved if the same rules apply to gay couples and straight couples alike. It's about equality, not tax benefits. In fact, married people get penalized more often than not.
Quote:
the problem is condoning homosexuality in the first place, thats the issue with the politicians it seems.
Advocating equality for gays is no more condoning homosexuality than advocating equality for blacks is condoning dark skin.
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero


Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 3,531
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Re: Bush Pushes Gay Marriage Ban [Re: Silversoul]
#5710671 - 06/04/06 10:35 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Silversoul said: Advocating equality for gays is no more condoning homosexuality than advocating equality for blacks is condoning dark skin.
ah, but advocating equality for blacks WAS condoning their skin (or at least, associating with those with black skin). Before it was LAW that they blacks were equal, you could easily be hung for just being friends.
about the having equal rights to marry... I don't buy that at all. The ONLY reason you need government permission to marry, is if you intend to make use of the tax benefits and change of official status. If two people want to take oaths to each other, I don't see why they should pay the government to make it official. I'm positive there are places in every state two gay people can have a priest wed them without anyone going to jail.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Bush Pushes Gay Marriage Ban [Re: kotik]
#5710677 - 06/04/06 10:41 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
kotik said: The ONLY reason you need government permission to marry, is if you intend to make use of the tax benefits and change of official status.
wrong wrong wrong
You're forgetting hospital visitation rights, inheritance rights, and divorce procedings.
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero


Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 3,531
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Re: Bush Pushes Gay Marriage Ban [Re: Silversoul]
#5710726 - 06/04/06 11:03 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Silversoul said:
Quote:
kotik said: The ONLY reason you need government permission to marry, is if you intend to make use of the tax benefits and change of official status.
wrong wrong wrong
You're forgetting hospital visitation rights, inheritance rights, and divorce procedings.
im just as wrong as i am ignorant 
i do recognize the issue, and i still think a seperate government form that provides the same rights that is seperate from marriage would do just as well. Fighting to extend the concept of marriage in opposition to the church is not going to get anywhere, at least not that way.
Personally, I don't see why anyone would stop people from forming pairs. if anything, its better for society, regardless of how they make dirty.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



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Re: Bush Pushes Gay Marriage Ban [Re: Diploid]
#5710902 - 06/04/06 12:00 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I don't really care if they use the word "marriage" or not, but homosexuals should receive every benefit after forming a union that heterosexuals do. Otherwise, it is unconstitutional.
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mack_tasticlies
Stranger

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Re: Bush Pushes Gay Marriage Ban [Re: Redstorm]
#5711036 - 06/04/06 12:41 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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to no one in particular,
This is such a fucking non issue.
Its a political tool.
no one really cares if gays get married its just a way for the sides to gather votes.
Let them get married for Christ's sake(ha ha), its not like if we don't they are going to quit being gay. I mean we already let them adopt and the lizzies have kids.
Edited by mack_tasticlies (06/04/06 12:58 PM)
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wilshire
free radical


Registered: 05/11/05
Posts: 2,421
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Re: Bush Pushes Gay Marriage Ban [Re: Diploid]
#5711042 - 06/04/06 12:43 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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1. it is not the government's place to define marriage. 2. a union of two women or two men should be given the same legal standing as a union between a woman and a man. 3. this country is full of idiots.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Bush Pushes Gay Marriage Ban [Re: wilshire]
#5711086 - 06/04/06 12:54 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
wilshire said: 1. it is not the government's place to define marriage.
Exactly right. Why this particular contract issue should have a special place in law is beyond me. It is exactly the same as any business agreement. Dissolution should be handled as a civil torts matterQuote:
2. a union of two women or two men should be given the same legal standing as a union between a woman and a man.
Which is to say pretty much none. Think about it. Millions of single people get fucked too. Co-habitors get fucked. Childless people get fuckedQuote:
3. this country is full of idiots.
Oh, now there's a fucking revelation. I'm not sure we always agree on just who the idiots are but there sure is no shortage.
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DieSpectra
Stranger

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Re: Bush Pushes Gay Marriage Ban [Re: wilshire]
#5711118 - 06/04/06 01:01 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
wilshire said: 1. it is not the government's place to define marriage. 2. a union of two women or two men should be given the same legal standing as a union between a woman and a man. 3. this country is full of idiots.
/agree
IMHO... Marriage is between people and their god or other beliefs. Gay or straight, we shouldn't have to apply to the government to get married.
It seems to me gay people should just get married however they wish, and just say their married regardless of not having a "legal" marriage license if that is their wish. They could just draft out wills and other legal forms to ensure that their partner would be entitled to their property if they should die (This seems like what straight people should do too).
Regardless stop giving benefits to married couples and then we can cut taxes so people's money will stay in their own hands. Fuck you big government!
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David_vs_Goliath
Informer


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Re: Bush Pushes Gay Marriage Ban [Re: zappaisgod]
#5711122 - 06/04/06 01:02 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: why do gays want to get married so bad?
Why do so many people give a shit that they do?
Live and let live!

In response to the question of why homosexuals would want to get married...
Why do men and women marry?? Why not just be "together"?
Same reason for homosexuals. It is a pact for life. a commitment of fidelity and a lifelong bond. Other than that it means nothing, and don't get started on the church's premarital sex shit.
-------------------- "People living deeply have no fear of death." "Love the animals, love the plants, love everything. If you love everything, you will perceive the divine mystery in things. Once you perceive it, you will begin to comprehend it better every day. And you will come at last to love the whole world with an all-embracing love." "Our problems are man-made, therefore they may be solved by man. No problem of human destiny is beyond human beings."
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mack_tasticlies
Stranger

Registered: 02/25/06
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pre marital sex is the only kind I know!
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mack_tasticlies
Stranger

Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 167
Last seen: 16 years, 4 months
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I can't imagine that it feels all that different from marital sex, but hell someone made it a sin. Marital must be immaculate.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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How do you get a woman to stop sucking your dick? Marry her. Badumdum. I'll be here all week. Don't forget to tip the waitresses
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Edited by zappaisgod (06/04/06 01:43 PM)
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stantonfreedom
Stranger
Registered: 05/11/06
Posts: 27
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Re: Bush Pushes Gay Marriage Ban [Re: Diploid]
#5711644 - 06/04/06 03:31 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I would think that Bush would be FOR gay marriage, since the new world order wants to decrease the size of the population. Hehe.
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero


Registered: 06/29/04
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perhaps the concept of married gay couples is countrproductive for the constant propaganda of how they are all sexually promiscuous, loaded with STDs and out to convert your children.
Besides, I am almost afraid of what the "christians" (and i use the term loosely) will target next, when gay marriage doesn't hold as much leverage.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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Le_Canard
The Duk Abides

Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1
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Re: Bush Pushes Gay Marriage Ban [Re: Diploid]
#5712921 - 06/04/06 09:36 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Having solved all other problems, George turns to this pressing issue.
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
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Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: Bush Pushes Gay Marriage Ban [Re: kotik]
#5712975 - 06/04/06 09:55 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
kotik said: why do gays want to get married so bad? The only reason I can think of, are the tax benefits. In that case, the govt should make a different form for legal couples (seperate from marriage), then this would seem to be resolved.
the problem is condoning homosexuality in the first place, thats the issue with the politicians it seems.
I don't see why potentially condoning homosexuality can even be a bad thing. Gays want to get married because they want to be 100% equal to the majority. Exactly what is wrong with that?
--------------------
    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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Le_Canard
The Duk Abides

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Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1
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Re: Bush Pushes Gay Marriage Ban [Re: Basilides]
#5713016 - 06/04/06 10:04 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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FWIW, I don't see a thing wrong with it. If they want to get legally married, I say let 'em!
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: Bush Pushes Gay Marriage Ban [Re: Le_Canard]
#5713873 - 06/05/06 02:52 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I have a personal opinion and a legal opinion when it comes to gay marriage.
My personal opinion is that I really don't give a shit if gay people get married.
My legal opinion is that the Constitution does not give the federal government the right to intrude upon the realm of marriage at all. The Christians want the federal government to ban gay marriage nationally. The gays and their supporters want the federal government to condone gay marriage nationally. I assert that the federal government do neither and leave it to the states. Marriage is and has always been a state matter.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero


Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
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Re: Bush Pushes Gay Marriage Ban [Re: RandalFlagg]
#5713915 - 06/05/06 04:02 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Sounds like Bush needs to come outa the closet and embrace the source of his homophobia... he might learn a thing or two about himself.
Banning same sex marriage is discrimination, pure and simple. Paint it with whatever pretty colors you want, it is still discrimination.
Don't give me the "honored and sacred institution between a man and a woman under God" crap... nobody cares when atheist couples get married.
The homosexual marriage debate sure does create a lot of noise in the media. I wonder what Bush and company don't want us paying attention to right now...
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
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Re: Bush Pushes Gay Marriage Ban [Re: Seuss]
#5713926 - 06/05/06 04:16 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I think it's hilarious how the Christians try to use the argument that if homosexual marriage is allowed...then what next? Bestiality marriage? etc.. etc..
They just don't want to come out and say the blatant truth; they don't like homosexuality and they don't want it to be legally condoned.
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero


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Re: Bush Pushes Gay Marriage Ban [Re: Basilides]
#5713995 - 06/05/06 05:34 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Basilides said: I don't see why potentially condoning homosexuality can even be a bad thing. Gays want to get married because they want to be 100% equal to the majority. Exactly what is wrong with that?
not saying anything is wrong. just stating the political problem is with politicians appearing to condone it, which may lose votes.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
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Re: Bush Pushes Gay Marriage Ban [Re: RandalFlagg]
#5714231 - 06/05/06 09:08 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
My legal opinion is that the Constitution does not give the federal government the right to intrude upon the realm of marriage at all. The Christians want the federal government to ban gay marriage nationally. The gays and their supporters want the federal government to condone gay marriage nationally. I assert that the federal government do neither and leave it to the states. Marriage is and has always been a state matter.
The problem is that the gov't does have their hands in the marriage business. Since this is the case, it is unconstitutional for the gov't to allow heterosexual marriages, but not homosexual ones.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: Bush Pushes Gay Marriage Ban [Re: Redstorm]
#5714300 - 06/05/06 09:41 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Redstorm said: The problem is that the gov't does have their hands in the marriage business. Since this is the case, it is unconstitutional for the gov't to allow heterosexual marriages, but not homosexual ones.
How does the federal government have its hand in marriage? All of the paperwork and authorizations come through local and state governments.
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero


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Re: Bush Pushes Gay Marriage Ban [Re: RandalFlagg]
#5714398 - 06/05/06 10:37 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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the topic of this entire thread implies a federal hand in these very matters. Regardless of theory, federal law trumps state law. not saying thats right either, just the way the world works.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Bush Pushes Gay Marriage Ban [Re: kotik]
#5714444 - 06/05/06 10:53 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Where there are conflicts of law, the U.S. Constitution is the Supreme Law of the Land because it was created first by the sovereign people.
"This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any state to the Contrary notwithstanding." --Article VI, United States Constitution
Quote:
Amendment XIV
Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
It doesn't say anything in there about "unless said citizen is homosexual." Maybe Bush should have someone read the Constitution to him. If he thinks that amending the consitution in order to limit the rights of certain citizens is in any way appropriate, then he does not understand the principles upon which this country was founded.
Edited by Veritas (06/05/06 11:02 AM)
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Bush Pushes Gay Marriage Ban [Re: Veritas]
#5714609 - 06/05/06 11:45 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Maybe Bush should have someone read the Constitution to him.
"It's just a piece of paper!" -- George W. Bush
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Bush Pushes Gay Marriage Ban [Re: Silversoul]
#5714693 - 06/05/06 12:03 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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So is a marriage license.
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Annapurna1
liberal pussy

Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
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Re: Bush Pushes Gay Marriage Ban [Re: Diploid]
#5714830 - 06/05/06 12:31 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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the good news is that the amendment itself wont even come close to getting a 2/3 majority in congress...the bad newses are that ..a) it might serve to fuel alot of nascent homophobia..in turn leading to a slew of statewise anti-gay legislation.. and b) this is a diversionary cultural red-herring ("fuck the economy..they want to let zappa suck a penis!!")...
it is also worth pointing out that as the religious right is bashing gays..the secular corporatist right has been bashing straights too..being all to happy to give so much free publicity to catherine mckinnon&co on the one hand.. while leaning heavily on anti-male advertizing on the other...as a result..straight men prolly face more legal discrimination than gays of either gender...
pushing aside the electoral red-herring aspects of this issue (which not to downplay the tragedy if it works)..it is not about gay vs straight..but rather two sides of the same puritanist coin...how long will it be before the neocons demand that i dont stick my hand up my skirt..and draught whatever constitutional amendment is necessary to make that possible??...
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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...
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RosettaStoned
Stranger

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Re: Bush Pushes Gay Marriage Ban [Re: Annapurna1]
#5715061 - 06/05/06 01:44 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
President George W. Bush on Saturday urged the Senate to pass a constitutional ban on same-sex marriage
Translation = Chew on this america, leave my war alone. And oh yeah, vote republican!
-------------------- "Government big enough to provide you with all you need is also big enough to take everything you have." ~ Thomas Jefferson "Without stupid, faggy potheads we wouldn't have wars." - Zappa
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stantonfreedom
Stranger
Registered: 05/11/06
Posts: 27
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Re: Bush Pushes Gay Marriage Ban [Re: Diploid]
#5715507 - 06/05/06 03:23 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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What a weak and petty president to be doing this. I don't even think George W. Bush is even a christian. He would have no voter base without his religious right. I think he's posing as a christian for the votes. And right now he's losing support so he pulls back out the same gay ban to refuel his dying presidency.
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ShroominFL
crazy man


Registered: 10/02/05
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Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
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hey if the gays wanna ruin their lives with marriage go for it then we won't even have to worry about them having sex lol
-------------------- You only live once...leave with no regrets.
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nakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque


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Re: Bush Pushes Gay Marriage Ban [Re: Le_Canard]
#5715618 - 06/05/06 03:49 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
ToiletDuk said: Having solved all other problems, George turns to this pressing issue.
lolol rotfl
-------------------- Asshole
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
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Re: Bush Pushes Gay Marriage Ban [Re: ShroominFL]
#5715655 - 06/05/06 04:03 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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