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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Do you feel guilty that you aren't in Iraq?
    #5707187 - 06/03/06 11:33 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I do. I have this comfortable life and my fellow Americans are getting picked off in a warzone. Granted, I don't think they should be there but they are. It disgusts me that we live comfortable lives while others fight for us.

I have many ambivalent feelings about the whole situation. Part of me wants to be over there. But, another part of me does not want to participate in a military endeavor that I disagree with.


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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Do you feel guilty that you aren't in Iraq? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5707193 - 06/03/06 11:36 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I'm not needed in iraq... neither are you. No sense in feeling guilty because you're not in a peice-of-shit country full of people who want to saw your head off with a steak knife and broadcast it on TV.


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I find your lack of faith disturbing


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InvisibleKoala Koolio
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Re: Do you feel guilty that you aren't in Iraq? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5707198 - 06/03/06 11:37 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

It disgusts me that I'm living a comfortable life while people are dying *anywhere*. Our troops, in Iraq, yes. But, not nearly to the degree as those who are placed into their situations without choice. I don't like to see americans dying, but there are problems all over the world, and people who did nothing to fall into helpless situations.


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You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!


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Offlineevolprim
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Re: Do you feel guilty that you aren't in Iraq? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5707199 - 06/03/06 11:37 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

There's no draft, they go there voluntarily.

Since your life is very comfortable and since you presumabley would like to make a difference in the lives of others you should try volunteering somewhere or sending money to 3rd world countries.

if you feel terribly guilty about not being in iraq, then go, but take a non-combat position :smile:


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Do you feel guilty that you aren't in Iraq? [Re: Konnrade]
    #5707202 - 06/03/06 11:38 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Konnrade said:
I'm not needed in iraq... neither are you. No sense in feeling guilty because you're not in a peice-of-shit country full of people who want to saw your head off with a steak knife and broadcast it on TV.




That's another big reason that I do not have a desire to participate in the Iraq endeavor. The whole exercise has turned from supposedly being about "self-defense" from WMD's to nation-building. I do not support using American money or lives to nation build; especially in a country so fucked up that they can't get their own shit together.


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OfflinePoopShooter
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Re: Do you feel guilty that you aren't in Iraq? [Re: Konnrade]
    #5707215 - 06/03/06 11:41 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Come on, you make it sound like everyone is Iraq is a serial killer...The majority of those problems didn't start until the US invaded.

No, I'm not guilty about not being in Iraq. The soldiers aren't fighting FOR us. They aren't fighting to protect us anyway. They are fighting in our name, but I'm not sure that's something to be proud of. I'm not quite sure why you would feel any worse for the American's than you do the Iraqis (innocent and guilty alike) that we are killing. Just because you have more in common? Isn't the value of human life the same? Even those of cultures that you don't understand?


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Do you feel guilty that you aren't in Iraq? [Re: evolprim]
    #5707224 - 06/03/06 11:43 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

evolprim said:
There's no draft, they go there voluntarily.




True.

Quote:

evolprim said:
Since your life is very comfortable and since you presumabley would like to make a difference in the lives of others you should try volunteering somewhere or sending money to 3rd world countries.





I donate to charity often.  I usually donate to causes that benefit Americans.  When there is a terrible catastrophe (the Indian Ocean tsunami for example) I will donate to foreigners.

Quote:

evolprim said:
if you feel terribly guilty about not being in iraq, then go, but take a non-combat position :smile:




What do you suggest?


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Do you feel guilty that you aren't in Iraq? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5707228 - 06/03/06 11:44 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

No, I do not feel the least bit guilty that I am not halfway across the world, killing innocent people in the name of "freedom and democracy".


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Do you feel guilty that you aren't in Iraq? [Re: PoopShooter]
    #5707235 - 06/03/06 11:45 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

PoopShooter said:
I'm not quite sure why you would feel any worse for the American's than you do the Iraqis (innocent and guilty alike) that we are killing. Just because you have more in common? Isn't the value of human life the same? Even those of cultures that you don't understand?




It is common for most people to feel a kinship with their countrymen. Therefore, it is common for many people to value the lives of their fellow countrymen over those of foreigners.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Do you feel guilty that you aren't in Iraq? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5707239 - 06/03/06 11:47 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

And that's where we've gone terribly, terribly wrong.

Quote:

The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
Thomas Paine
US patriot & political philosopher (1737 - 1809)




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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Do you feel guilty that you aren't in Iraq? [Re: Shroomism]
    #5707241 - 06/03/06 11:47 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
No, I do not feel the least bit guilty that I am not halfway across the world, killing innocent people in the name of "freedom and democracy".




I would gander to say that most of the people dying from American actions are enemy combatants, but undoubtedly a significant amount of Iraqi civilians have died.

I don't feel guilty that I am not participating in the endeavor. I feel guilty that there are Americans who are fighting and I am not.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Do you feel guilty that you aren't in Iraq? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5707243 - 06/03/06 11:48 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

It's their choice. Do you feel guilty that people are dying from starvation as well? Or those dying from alcohol poisoning? What about the heroin junkie?


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InvisiblePenguarky Tunguin
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Re: Do you feel guilty that you aren't in Iraq? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5707246 - 06/03/06 11:50 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Not one bit. They're not fighting to protect me. They're fighting in my name as an american. I've never been attacked. I never seen a terrorist incident. I don't beleive terrorism is a threat. They are over there for rich people to get even richer. The soldiers didn't have to enlist, they did, now they're doing what's required of them.

This uppity respect for US armed forces is getting out of control. Support our troops? Support the killing of innocent lives? No thanks. How about support a way to get these fuckers home as soon as possible and let that part of the world continue killing themselves like they have done for thousands of years.


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Every mistake, intentional or otherwise, in the above post, is the fault of the reader.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Do you feel guilty that you aren't in Iraq? [Re: Shroomism]
    #5707247 - 06/03/06 11:50 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
And that's where we've gone terribly, terribly wrong.




I disagree. I see nothing wrong with having an allegiance to a particular group (whether because of nationality, religion, geography, ideology, etc..). It is natural for people to "band together" and have affinity for one another because they are similar.

Now, the problems arise when one group views itself as superior and it seeks to impose their will upon another group.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Do you feel guilty that you aren't in Iraq? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5707252 - 06/03/06 11:52 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Well I agree. Nothing wrong with having an allegiance to a group, a community.

But the problem does indeed arise when one states 'ownership' over land, and seeks to conquer the communities of others. *cough*iraq*cough*

But if history has taught us anything, it is that history is doomed to repeat itself.
And all empires have fallen under their own weight.
The roman empire was once the greatest in the world.
Now it's the American empire.

The only question in my mind. How long until it crumbles.


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OfflinePoopShooter
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Re: Do you feel guilty that you aren't in Iraq? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5707254 - 06/03/06 11:53 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Alright I can accept that I guess. I was just hoping it was something maybe a little more altruistic than some fraternal bond.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Do you feel guilty that you aren't in Iraq? [Re: Shroomism]
    #5707256 - 06/03/06 11:54 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomism said:
It's their choice.




It is their choice to join. But, many do so out of a desire to serve their country which is admirable in my opinion. It is too bad that their efforts are being used in an innapropriate manner.

Quote:

Shroomism said:
Do you feel guilty that people are dying from starvation as well?





Guilty? No.

If some terrible catastrophe happens which causes starvation, I will feel badly for the victims. There is a difference between feeling badly and feeling guilty. If people starve because they are too stupid to get their shit together (like in Africa), then no...I don't feel bad about that.

Quote:

Shroomism said:
Or those dying from alcohol poisoning?




Nope...they do it to themselves.

Quote:

Shroomism said:
What about the heroin junkie?




Nope...they do it to themselves.


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InvisiblePenguarky Tunguin
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Re: Do you feel guilty that you aren't in Iraq? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5707257 - 06/03/06 11:55 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Didn't a lot of people who are over in Iraq sign up because of 9-11? If so, it was their choice. "They did it to themselves."


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Every mistake, intentional or otherwise, in the above post, is the fault of the reader.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Do you feel guilty that you aren't in Iraq? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5707258 - 06/03/06 11:55 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Well the same could be said for those going to iraq and dying.. they do it to themselves.
not my fault they decided to sell their lives to the US government for a "war" that no one believes in.


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Offlinekosmic_charlie
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Re: Do you feel guilty that you aren't in Iraq? [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5707261 - 06/03/06 11:56 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
...while others fight for us.




I don't feel as though they're over their fighting for "us". They're fighting for my government's power-hungry agenda.

Now if I lived back in 1944 I would feel guilty sitting comfortably at home while American troops stormed the beaches of Normandy in an efort to keep the Nazis from world domination. But this war? Gimme a break. Can someone please tell me what we're fighting for again?

BRING THE BOYS BACK HOME!


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Goin' where the water tastes like wine.


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