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mr_kite
The Watcher


Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 2,577
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Why are so many things shit instead of good?
#5706764 - 06/03/06 06:27 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Why does so much of popular culture suck so badly? Will the masses of the human race (or the human race as a whole?) ever raise their collective level of cultural consciousness and intellect? Would this involve some serious evolution or change in the gene pool? Am I starting to sound worryingly like Hitler?
-------------------- let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
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Re: Why are so many things shit instead of good? [Re: mr_kite]
#5706791 - 06/03/06 07:08 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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A second Renaissance is in short order.
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero


Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 3,531
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Re: Why are so many things shit instead of good? [Re: mr_kite]
#5706809 - 06/03/06 07:39 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
mr_kite said: Am I starting to sound worryingly like Hitler?
haha i worry about that too. despite the rhetorical nature of your other questions, I'll answer.
Popular culture "sucks", because it represents the lowest common denominator. It's a good reference to see popular things as entry points into more specific areas. Although I am not a fan of metaphors when proving points... its like a comparing a community pool with the ocean. stay with me for one second.
swimming in a pool is predictable, and although it may have shallow/deep areas, its all paved, and the water is the same no matter where you are, or how big the pool is. Unfort, people tend to pee in the pool which normally wouldn't be bad, but an overcrowded pool would probably have more traces of urine than say, the ocean.
in the ocean there is no concrete, everything is always changing: the floor is made of sand, hardly constant. the water moves constantly, etc. its also much easier to get lost, or to drown, or to be eaten up by other creatures much more adapted to the environment of true constant change. more importantly, in the ocean you could come across the coolest shit in the world, but it would be hard to get more than a small group of friends to check it out.
pools, again are much more comfortable. not as many ways to die, and you can swim from one end to the other, but pools are also filled with chemicals, which kill any new forms of life that try to exist in that underwater environment. so here lies the problem, and hopefully a successful analogy? 
if you are unwilling to go outside of popular culture, and people swimming in their own excrement, then you will smell the same shit all day, no matter what color or texture it happens to be at the time. on the other hand, you shouldn't avoid swimming in the water because of that, its just a small accessible version of the a much greater experience.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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dblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
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Re: Why are so many things shit instead of good? [Re: mr_kite]
#5706981 - 06/03/06 10:15 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Why does so much of popular culture suck so badly?
I think it's not really supposed to have much substance. It's supposed to have just enough substance to distract people from their own 'dull' lives and give them some direction.
The herd of humanity is like a bumble bee: don't bother it and it won't bother you, or so I gather.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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David_vs_Goliath
Informer


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Re: Why are so many things shit instead of good? [Re: dblaney]
#5707008 - 06/03/06 10:29 AM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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popular culture thrives on the cheapest way to be entertained.
-------------------- "People living deeply have no fear of death." "Love the animals, love the plants, love everything. If you love everything, you will perceive the divine mystery in things. Once you perceive it, you will begin to comprehend it better every day. And you will come at last to love the whole world with an all-embracing love." "Our problems are man-made, therefore they may be solved by man. No problem of human destiny is beyond human beings."
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
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Re: Why are so many things shit instead of good? [Re: David_vs_Goliath]
#5707576 - 06/03/06 02:06 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Answering the question in the title, perhaps because your head is too far up your ass? 
Hehe, couldn't resist. 
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: Why are so many things shit instead of good? [Re: mr_kite]
#5707683 - 06/03/06 02:57 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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one of the initial signs of an evolution in conciousness is the realization that all dualistic distinctions, such as those between "deep" and "shallow" or "good" and "bad" are entirely self created and self perpetuated.
Dont worry about cultural conciousness. Worry about getting your own conciousness out of the place where it feels like it needs to occupy itself with judgments.
This is only advice.
"be content with the way things are. When you realize that their is nothing lacking, then the whole world belongs to you"
lao-tzu
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Everything I post is fiction.
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OldWoodSpecter
waiting


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Re: Why are so many things shit instead of good? [Re: Moonshoe]
#5707895 - 06/03/06 04:09 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Moonshoe said: one of the initial signs of an evolution in conciousness is the realization that all dualistic distinctions, such as those between "deep" and "shallow" or "good" and "bad" are entirely self created and self perpetuated.
This realisation IS the cause of all the problems human society is facing right now. Why do people kill each other and steal? Because they realise that those things are only bad if they believe they are, and they don't. Once you "realise" that, there is nothing stopping you from living like a true animal.
Evolution is not something with a logical following, it is simply a change that can go in any direction.
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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Telepylus
Babyman


Registered: 05/22/06
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Loc: Seattle
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Re: Why are so many things shit instead of good? [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
#5708272 - 06/03/06 06:08 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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A good Boy will make a good Man. Honour your Parents, and the World will honour you. Love your Friends, and your Friends will love you. He that swims in Sin, will sink in Sorrow. Learn to live, as you would wish to die. As you expect all Men should deal by you: So deal by them, and give each Man his Due.
--------------------
Law of Love
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evolprim
human


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Re: Why are so many things shit instead of good? [Re: David_vs_Goliath]
#5708284 - 06/03/06 06:11 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
David_vs_Goliath said: popular culture thrives on the cheapest way to be entertained.
bingo
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David_Scape
Anti Genius


Registered: 08/05/02
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Re: Why are so many things shit instead of good? [Re: mr_kite]
#5708426 - 06/03/06 06:43 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
mr_kite said: Why does so much of popular culture suck so badly?
Well, as far as america's mainstream is concerned, things tend to suck because they are trying to reach as many pockets as possible and as many demographics as possible. This doesn't mean that everything mainstream sucks necessarily, but it does mean alot of it will. At least, to me, since I do not enjoy the things the majority of people do.
Quote:
Will the masses of the human race (or the human race as a whole?) ever raise their collective level of cultural consciousness and intellect? Would this involve some serious evolution or change in the gene pool?
I agree with you to the extent that I find most mainstream things to suck. But my agreement stops when you start using the words "evolve" or "raise their collective level of cultural consciousness" and whatnot. It sounds as if you are trying to rationalize the world into making things palatable to your personal preferences. Confusing what you enjoy with what everybody should/shouldn't enjoy, is a mistake.
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hot48yearolds
Dharmakaya

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Re: Why are so many things shit instead of good? [Re: David_Scape]
#5708581 - 06/03/06 07:26 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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"Confusing what you enjoy with what everybody should/shouldn't enjoy, is a mistake."
Exactly
-------------------- "Truth is more in the process than in the result." - J. Krishnamurti "We ourselves are not an illusory part of Reality; rather are we Reality itself illusorily conceived." Wei Wu Wei
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leery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
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Re: Why are so many things shit instead of good? [Re: hot48yearolds]
#5708705 - 06/03/06 08:00 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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popular culture follows the simplest formulas as possible.
for example..... you learned that for rock music to work you don't need complex musicianship and long solos, you need to repeat only a few riffs that sound a certain way, and add in a few vocals that sound a certain way.
it refines itself down to the bare core of what it is, taking individuality out in the process.
why have 11199993333222111 when you can have 19321
everyone like's the 1s and 9s and 3s and 2s.... cut out the substance, the variety, and put a ton of 1s, 9s, 3s, and 2s out there.
Popular culture is not in the business of quality, nor art, it is in the business of money. Money will find the quickest way to make more money, if that means destroying art in the process, and creating something that looks exactly like art on the surface, but is actually souless, in place.
Look at American Idol. No doubt the contestants can sing. But look at what and how they sing. It is an issue of repetition..... it is a very simple, very crude, very unstimulating repetition on all scales. A mantra of mediocrity.
Or think of it like this. Metallica comes out. Then 12 imitators come out. By the 12th imitator you have a new radio trend, and 12 more bands will follow suit. The complexity and or ingenuity of Metallica is raped in the process them reshelved as "new".
The record companies are behind all of this. They do not experiment. They find what is popular and they make as many similar products as they can, claiming each to be new and fresh. Boy band crazes. Girl band crazes. Pop punk crazes. They market the exact same product with many different faces.
This is why pop culture sucks. There is no room for experimentation for that would waste too much money and risk too many things. This is why many excellent bands stay in the local scene never to particularly be noticed..... and this is why kids that decide to start bands, influenced heavily by the radio, tend to start sucky bands that eventually get signed.
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
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mr_kite
The Watcher


Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 2,577
Loc: shambhala
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Re: Why are so many things shit instead of good? [Re: David_Scape]
#5710946 - 06/04/06 12:13 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
David_Scape said: My agreement stops when you start using the words "evolve" or "raise their collective level of cultural consciousness" and whatnot. It sounds as if you are trying to rationalize the world into making things palatable to your personal preferences. Confusing what you enjoy with what everybody should/shouldn't enjoy, is a mistake.
Thats not what Im doing...I think you're putting words in my mouth. How can you say I was "trying to rationalize the world into making things palatable to [my] personal preferences"??? 
I am merely saying (without wishing to sound like a dick): clearly some areas of culture require greater intellect and understanding than other things (like Britney Spears). These areas of high culture are currently enjoyed by a minority; the majority are more interested in Britney, Big Brother etc. Will it ever turn out that a larger proportion of the human race will appreciate deeper, more meaningful art/culture (like Shostakovich, Dostoevsky, Part etc) ie to put it bluntly will the average iq rate increase and high culture shift to popular?
At the same time there are plenty of things which I know to be of superior cultural significance and quality that I do not enjoy eg Opera. Im not preaching at anyone.
(disclaimer: Im stoned so that may be slightly indigestible/inaccurate/bullshit-orientated)
-------------------- let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love
Edited by mr_kite (06/04/06 12:15 PM)
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sleepy
zZzZzZzZz


Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 3,888
Loc:
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Re: Why are so many things shit instead of good? [Re: mr_kite]
#5711076 - 06/04/06 12:51 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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every thing is suffering -Buddha
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David_Scape
Anti Genius


Registered: 08/05/02
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Re: Why are so many things shit instead of good? [Re: mr_kite]
#5711461 - 06/04/06 02:33 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
mr_kite said: Thats not what Im doing...I think you're putting words in my mouth. How can you say I was "trying to rationalize the world into making things palatable to [my] personal preferences"??? 
That is what it sounded like. The second sentence, as I pointed out, sounded like this. A person who dislikes mainstream culture could rationalize to himself that it is unintelligent, and unevolved, or uncomplex, when the real fact of the matter is, he/she just doesn't like it. The same way a person who likes modern civilization may call indigenous tribal culture "primitive" or of "a lower standard of cultural consciousness". These things are very relative.
Quote:
I am merely saying (without wishing to sound like a dick):
Don't worry, you do not. Perfectly reasonable. And your post is legible.
Quote:
clearly some areas of culture require greater intellect and understanding than other things (like Britney Spears). These areas of high culture are currently enjoyed by a minority; the majority are more interested in Britney, Big Brother etc. Will it ever turn out that a larger proportion of the human race will appreciate deeper, more meaningful art/culture (like Shostakovich, Dostoevsky, Part etc) ie to put it bluntly will the average iq rate increase and high culture shift to popular?
At the same time there are plenty of things which I know to be of superior cultural significance and quality that I do not enjoy eg Opera. Im not preaching at anyone.
I don't know very much about Britany Spears, and the fans who like her. It'd be presumptuous for me to say I do. Don't get me wrong, I dislike her and her music, but I actualy fail to understand how anybody could like her music and (some actually admire) her image. To say that it doesn't/does require "greater intellect" would definitely be presumptous. Through and through.
There are certain things however, that I consider important, like book-reading, that less people seem to do. But, even then, there are other ways of getting information. What is considered high-brow or "deep and meaningfull" is entirely dependent on the differences that one has locked inside their skull.
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mr_kite
The Watcher


Registered: 09/16/02
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Re: Why are so many things shit instead of good? [Re: David_Scape]
#5711471 - 06/04/06 02:38 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I would wager that it is possible to prove, through musical analysis, that Shostakovich's 5th Symphony has more musical and cultural worth and depth, and requires a greater intellect to properly comprehend, than Spears' "Hit Me Baby One More Time".
-------------------- let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love
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David_Scape
Anti Genius


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Re: Why are so many things shit instead of good? [Re: mr_kite]
#5711491 - 06/04/06 02:47 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'm sure Shostakovich's 5th (I am not familiar with it) is more complex as a written piece of music. But I cannot see you proving cultural worth aside from getting as many people as you can to agree with you.
There is also free form jazz, and other types of Jazz and techno that is extremely complicated (I'm a lister of "high-brow" extremely complicated electronic music), and can take time to train the ear, but either way you look at it man, it just sounds good. No musical analysis you can muster subsumes this. I'm sorry.
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David_Scape
Anti Genius


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Re: Why are so many things shit instead of good? [Re: David_Scape]
#5711495 - 06/04/06 02:48 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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Nor depth and meaning, I might add. All relative.
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OldWoodSpecter
waiting


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Re: Why are so many things shit instead of good? [Re: David_Scape]
#5711543 - 06/04/06 03:02 PM (17 years, 7 months ago) |
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he said "than other things (like Britney)"
he used B. Spears as an example of "other things", the ones you don't need to be intelectial to understand
read that part again
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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