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OfflineShaqAttack
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Wild Bird Seed Soak Question
    #5704329 - 06/02/06 02:22 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

How's it going? I soaked some WBS in a cooler for 30 hours. I used hot water from the faucet. The cooler maintained the heat way longer than I imagined - like 24 hours and it was still warm. When I went to rinse and drain the WBS the water was reallly brown and the WBS stunk a little bit - like fermentation had started. I'll probably toss the $6 worth of birdseed so I guess I'm answering my own question. Does anyone have any input on if I should toss the WBS or not?

TIA
Shaq


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InvisibleAtheist
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Re: Wild Bird Seed Soak Question [Re: ShaqAttack]
    #5704355 - 06/02/06 02:30 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

No its okay.

Just rinse the fuck out of it and let it drain really good.


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OfflineSnaggletooth
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Re: Wild Bird Seed Soak Question [Re: ShaqAttack]
    #5704366 - 06/02/06 02:33 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

It's going pretty good, though I have a very busy weekend ahead of me. My grandmother is coming to visit for a few days. So that's cool but I just hate to have change my lifestyle even for a few days, I am very selfish  :wink:

Anyway on to the WBS. I test mine though it is subjective, just by eating a few seeds to fell the moister level, if there is resistance or if it's soft so on...

I say what the hell PC it, if it turns to mush toss it, no lost.


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OfflineShaqAttack
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Re: Wild Bird Seed Soak Question [Re: Atheist]
    #5704367 - 06/02/06 02:33 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Cool, thanks - I was hoping someone would say that!!!

Best Regards
Shaq


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InvisibleFooMan
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Re: Wild Bird Seed Soak Question [Re: ShaqAttack]
    #5704386 - 06/02/06 02:40 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I say fuck soaking! :grin:


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Offlinedudefromaz
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Re: Wild Bird Seed Soak Question [Re: FooMan]
    #5704393 - 06/02/06 02:44 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

either you soak or you simmer/ pc the hell out of them... i tend to soak then simmer then drain then rinse then simmer then drain then boil the fuck outa them....= good2go


--------------------
Remember, the best drug, is a natural drug.....

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InvisibleFooMan
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Re: Wild Bird Seed Soak Question [Re: dudefromaz]
    #5704404 - 06/02/06 02:47 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

dudefromaz said:
either you soak or you simmer/ pc the hell out of them... i tend to soak then simmer then drain then rinse then simmer then drain then boil the fuck outa them....= good2go




That's overkill and will give you a ton of exploded seeds. Check my sig for the way I do it. Much easier than what you just said.


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Quick WBS Prep


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Offlinesplifner180
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Re: Wild Bird Seed Soak Question [Re: FooMan]
    #5704520 - 06/02/06 03:23 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I think you're fine. Yeah, WBS does smell a little funky once it's been soaked for 24-36 hours but like Spicy mentioned, rinse the grains repeatedly until the water runs clear.

splif


--------------------
First Grow: Ecuador -> LC -> HPoo/Straw -> Monotub
Build a Do-It-Yourself Magnetic Stirrer in thirty minutes with no money.


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InvisibleAtheist
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Re: Wild Bird Seed Soak Question [Re: FooMan]
    #5704538 - 06/02/06 03:28 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

FooManShroom said:
Quote:

dudefromaz said:
either you soak or you simmer/ pc the hell out of them... i tend to soak then simmer then drain then rinse then simmer then drain then boil the fuck outa them....= good2go




That's overkill and will give you a ton of exploded seeds. Check my sig for the way I do it. Much easier than what you just said.




Dude your wbs prep tek is so fucking awesome its easy as hell and it works perfectly, i would never ever soak wbs its pointless and takes too long, i had jars prepared in 2 hours because of you THANKS  :mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2: :mushroom2:


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Invisiblenalbano34
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Re: Wild Bird Seed Soak Question [Re: ShaqAttack]
    #5704567 - 06/02/06 03:35 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

first time doing it and soaked it for like an hour then strained....inoced with 2 holes and took a long while (3weeks) but got the killer growth....did a b+ strain so may have made a difference but what do I know....I am a nooooooooobbbbbb!


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Invisiblemusher_420
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Re: Wild Bird Seed Soak Question [Re: Atheist]
    #5704584 - 06/02/06 03:41 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

The way I see it, it only takes 5 minutes (of your time) to soak wbs. You just fill up a bucket with seed then fill it up with water and forget about it. Drain before your ready to use it. Perfect moisture content and you don't need to pay any special attention to what your doing on the stove top. Soaking is the most fool proof way of doing WBS IMO.


--------------------
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Btw- You are not what you own!


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Offlinesplifner180
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Re: Wild Bird Seed Soak Question [Re: musher_420]
    #5704694 - 06/02/06 04:25 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I'm with musher_420 on this one BUT that's because I'm always planning ahead. If I needed soaked WBS right now I'd use the simmer method.

The downside with simmer is some amount of burst kernels and it takes time/experience to nail proper moisture content. The upside is speed.

The downside of soak is speed. The upside is no burst kernels and 100% guaranteed perfect moisture.

splif


--------------------
First Grow: Ecuador -> LC -> HPoo/Straw -> Monotub
Build a Do-It-Yourself Magnetic Stirrer in thirty minutes with no money.


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Offlinedudefromaz
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Re: Wild Bird Seed Soak Question [Re: FooMan]
    #5704733 - 06/02/06 04:36 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

FooManShroom said:
Quote:

dudefromaz said:
either you soak or you simmer/ pc the hell out of them... i tend to soak then simmer then drain then rinse then simmer then drain then boil the fuck outa them....= good2go




That's overkill and will give you a ton of exploded seeds. Check my sig for the way I do it. Much easier than what you just said.




tou che


--------------------
Remember, the best drug, is a natural drug.....

Peace, Fratirnityishly, Smoke Da Stuff, Special Chocolate




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Invisiblemusher_420
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Re: Wild Bird Seed Soak Question [Re: splifner180]
    #5704762 - 06/02/06 04:46 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Your right, soaking does that some planning ahead. But I always plan my PC runs ahead of time because I don't want anyone comming over or something of that nature.


--------------------
My Humidifier Reservoir Expansion Tek

Must read links for beginners

Btw- You are not what you own!


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Invisibleindianprincess
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Re: Wild Bird Seed Soak Question [Re: FooMan]
    #5704771 - 06/02/06 04:49 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

FooManShroom said:
Quote:

dudefromaz said:
either you soak or you simmer/ pc the hell out of them... i tend to soak then simmer then drain then rinse then simmer then drain then boil the fuck outa them....= good2go




That's overkill and will give you a ton of exploded seeds. Check my sig for the way I do it. Much easier than what you just said.




I used foomanshroom's tek for my last two batches of wbs and it really doesn't get any easier.


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OfflineShaqAttack
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Re: Wild Bird Seed Soak Question [Re: indianprincess]
    #5704930 - 06/02/06 05:57 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I rinsed the WBS and drained it well - everything looks fine and the stink is gone. I've had water content issues (I think) in my jars lately. From the same batch of jars i did 1/2 of the jars by G2G and i did 1/2 by inoculation. The G2G failed 100% and the inoculated jars were 100% succesful. The G2G grew a little bit around the chunks and then stalled while the inoculated jars finished. They we all in a Tub in Tub incubator at 80ish degrees. All I could figure was the extra water from the inoculation helped everything along.
Anyways my point is: I soaked the WBS in a cooler with warm water from the faucet and the water stayed warm for almost the whole soak. The grain looks great - every single piece looks like its bloated and ready to pop. So after draining I'm hoping the water content will be perfect. I thought I might have killed to birds with one stone - for those who like to soak and then simmer. We'll see how it goes.

Thanks
Shaq


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Offlinesplifner180
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Re: Wild Bird Seed Soak Question [Re: ShaqAttack]
    #5705082 - 06/02/06 06:46 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

ShaqAttack writes:
"The G2G failed 100% and the inoculated jars were 100% succesful. The G2G grew a little bit around the chunks and then stalled while the inoculated jars finished."

Were both jars the same setup? I think stalling is (sometimes) related to FAE, no?

splif


--------------------
First Grow: Ecuador -> LC -> HPoo/Straw -> Monotub
Build a Do-It-Yourself Magnetic Stirrer in thirty minutes with no money.


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OfflineBPJohnny
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Re: Wild Bird Seed Soak Question [Re: splifner180]
    #5705098 - 06/02/06 06:53 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

stalling can be caused by bacteria which may be very probable in
this situation as the inoculated jars (low risk) prospered and the
G2G jars (higher risk) did not


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OfflineShaqAttack
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Re: Wild Bird Seed Soak Question [Re: BPJohnny]
    #5705144 - 06/02/06 07:09 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Both sets of jars (inoculated and G2G) were done in the same glove box on the same day. Both we're put in the same inccubator on the same day. I've always had good luck with G2G. I've never had 100% failure (around 6 jars in this case) though. And for the inoculated jars - I just lifted the lid and squirted the spores in, I didn't pierce the tyvek. All jars have tyvek and 2 1/4" holes in the top.

Thanks
Shaq


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Offlinesplifner180
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Re: Wild Bird Seed Soak Question [Re: ShaqAttack]
    #5705247 - 06/02/06 07:48 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Oh. Then never mind. =)

splif


--------------------
First Grow: Ecuador -> LC -> HPoo/Straw -> Monotub
Build a Do-It-Yourself Magnetic Stirrer in thirty minutes with no money.


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InvisibleFooMan
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Re: Wild Bird Seed Soak Question [Re: indianprincess]
    #5705276 - 06/02/06 07:57 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

indianprincess said:
I used foomanshroom's tek for my last two batches of wbs and it really doesn't get any easier.




The way I do it isn't really simmering, but rather steeping the seed. Simmering is nothing new. Doc34 has his tek archived  HERE. In the tek, he states to simmer to ensure you get the "perfect" water content. I agree. The heat of the water forces the grain to absorb the water in a fraction of the time it does by just soaking.

I think because Agar posted the "Soaking- Final Answer" deal, that everyone is stuck on soaking being the only way to do it- I say HORSESHIT! Perfect moisture content? I get it EVERY TIME and it takes less than an hour. It's not that I'm lazy or impatient, I just don't  like to waste time.

I'm not knocking the soaking method. If you want to wait 12,24,48 hours to get the same results I get in 1 - go right ahead!  :smile:


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Offlinedudefromaz
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Re: Wild Bird Seed Soak Question [Re: FooMan]
    #5705447 - 06/02/06 08:50 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

but the soak is also there to germinate the bacterial endospores... isn't it?


--------------------
Remember, the best drug, is a natural drug.....

Peace, Fratirnityishly, Smoke Da Stuff, Special Chocolate




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OfflineBPJohnny
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Re: Wild Bird Seed Soak Question [Re: dudefromaz]
    #5705547 - 06/02/06 09:24 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

maybe there was a problem with the parent jars?


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InvisibleFooMan
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Re: Wild Bird Seed Soak Question [Re: dudefromaz]
    #5705607 - 06/02/06 09:38 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

dudefromaz said:
but the soak is also there to germinate the bacterial endospores... isn't it?




Absolutely. The thing is, WBS doesn't contain large grains for the most part. An endospore is just a spore within the grain. The seed is small, so the heat from PC'ing easily penetrates it. IME, rye needs soaking, not WBS.


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Offlinesplifner180
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Re: Wild Bird Seed Soak Question [Re: BPJohnny]
    #5705635 - 06/02/06 09:45 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

FooManShroom writes:
"I think because Agar posted the "Soaking- Final Answer" deal, that everyone is stuck on soaking being the only way to do it- I say HORSESHIT! Perfect moisture content? I get it EVERY TIME and it takes less than an hour. It's not that I'm lazy or impatient, I just don't like to waste time."

If the issue is expenditure of time I guarantee that you spend more time simmering than I spend soaking.

I dump 5lbs of WBS into a container and fill it with water. My entire participation is about a minute, if that. You have to do all that plus monitor the heat and stir.

I'm not saying soaking is the alpha and the omega of hydrating WBS. Both styles have its pros and cons. But the simmering method clearly requires more babysitting than a soak, and therefore more "wasted time." It also has a steeper learning curve since clearly people can (and do) get the moisture wrong using the simmer method.

On the other hand, if a person can comprehend "remove WBS from water when water level doesn't drop any more," they can do perfect moisture WBS.

But, as you pointed out, what that person won't get is WBS ready to PC in 2 hours.

splif


--------------------
First Grow: Ecuador -> LC -> HPoo/Straw -> Monotub
Build a Do-It-Yourself Magnetic Stirrer in thirty minutes with no money.


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OfflineHippieChick
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Re: Wild Bird Seed Soak Question [Re: splifner180]
    #5705726 - 06/02/06 10:13 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Sometimes I do 50-60 pounds of WBS at a time . I think it would take me forever to do it this way . I just fill 2 five gallon buckets full , let it soak a day , drain and PC .

I can see this being helpful if only doing a few jars . I just don't ever do a few , lol .

Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony
:heart: Hippie Chick  :mushroom2:


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OfflineShaqAttack
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Re: Wild Bird Seed Soak Question [Re: BPJohnny]
    #5705814 - 06/02/06 10:38 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

BPJohnny said:
maybe there was a problem with the parent jars?




That could be BPJohnny. I didn't think of that. The parent jars seemed fully colonized. But a couple of them had "dry" spots that were hard to tell if they were colonized or not. I have one now where 99.9% is colonized but the bottom has like 15 pieces of birdseed that are not colonized - they are seperate from the "mother chunk" and the 15 pieces look just like they did after soaking and rinsing. I tried to take a picture of the bottom - I'm not sure if it showed up well. See what it looks like to you?



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InvisibleTippinthru
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Re: Wild Bird Seed Soak Question [Re: HippieChick]
    #5705849 - 06/02/06 10:47 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

HippieChick said:
Sometimes I do 50-60 pounds of WBS at a time . I think it would take me forever to do it this way . I just fill 2 five gallon buckets full , let it soak a day , drain and PC .

I can see this being helpful if only doing a few jars . I just don't ever do a few , lol .

Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony
:heart: Hippie Chick  :mushroom2:




I'm with HippyChick on this one.  :thumbup:
24/30 hour soak/rinse/drain/load & PC has never failed me :grin:

Pinning now  :laugh:


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InvisibleFooMan
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Re: Wild Bird Seed Soak Question [Re: splifner180]
    #5706711 - 06/03/06 05:07 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

splifner180 said:
But the simmering method clearly requires more babysitting than a soak, and therefore more "wasted time." It also has a steeper learning curve since clearly people can (and do) get the moisture wrong using the simmer method.





As I've mentioned before, I'm not talking about simmering, but steeping. Did you even bother to read the link in my sig? No babysitting required- that's what's great about it! My reference to Doc34's tek was just to show that there is more than one opinion on how to achieve -perfect moisture content-, not that you should stand next to your stove monitoring your seeds while they simmer.

HC- I would agree that for 50-60lbs of WBS, then steeping/simmering is NOT the way to go! That's just not practical for most people though. I can do 30-40 quart jars easily with my method. I just use a large 22 qt pot, get the water to boiling, turn the heat off, dump the WBS in, put the lid on, wait 30min- 1 hour and I'm done. Rinse and load.

Tippinthru- Although I keep my grows at a much smaller scale then HC, I have gotten great results using my method also:





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