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OfflineDeviate
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Registered: 04/20/03
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Re: Good, Evil, and Free Will [Re: shroomydan]
    #5692644 - 05/30/06 09:26 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

well supposedly free-will gives things the freedom to go bad.

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OfflineDoctorJ
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Registered: 06/30/03
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Re: Good, Evil, and Free Will [Re: Deviate]
    #5692680 - 05/30/06 09:33 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

If you are free to succeed, you are also free to fail


If you are free to fly, you are also free to fall.


navigation, people! how many times must I stress the importance of a good moral compass, and proper navigation by it?

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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Registered: 05/07/04
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Re: Good, Evil, and Free Will [Re: shroomydan]
    #5694275 - 05/31/06 10:08 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

shroomydan said:
Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
Quote:

shroomydan said:
The question is why did Satan fall. If God created him good, then why did he choose evil? It is a mystery which cannot be answered.



I can't remember, where I read about that, but perhaps it was in the apocrypha.
Satan simply got jealous, as he heard that god wanted man to have the power over the earth. That made him to trick adam through eve.
Satan was the first one, earth was promised, then god decided to give all power over earth to human.
The gimmick here is, satan is still the overall owner over the 'earth' and human, by having the ultimate power, is to worship satan by using this :wink:

I hope, this did make some sense :heart:




I have also heard that story. I believe it is from one of the medieval mystic saints, but I can't remember which one. The sticking point still remains; if God created Satan Good, then why would he become jealous? It seems there must be some defect of character, because jealousy is not good.



I did expect this answer, but remember:
"Don't have any gods beside me, because I am a jealeaus god" :laugh:
Perhaps it is something a little bit different as we understand it today.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: Good, Evil, and Free Will [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5698150 - 06/01/06 02:24 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

jealous gods do not exist

but monogamous gods do :wink:

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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Good, Evil, and Free Will [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5699185 - 06/01/06 11:33 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Hmm.. I only can imagine that it's meant like, if god sees someone praising something and this someone is not seeing what is behind or the cause, then this is the state what is expressed by the word 'jealous' here.
Isn't it about the loose of love (the loose of 'to be loved') ?

Someone here on the board once said that god seems to have the need to constantly prove and assure him/her/itself. I agree here, as he also has the ability to let something be divided from him, divided from the principle of love.
So, if Satan got jealous, he saw humans praising god again, instead of him as the ruler of 'human' physical existence. He wanted still to be loved by humans and god. For him, it was like god would put the humans between him and god and therefore he preached and acted like god was on the opposite of him, related to human view (god-human-satan).  That is not true, as Satan is still between us and god (god-satan-human). We can praise nature while praising god and we can praise the sun, while praising god. We can praise the universe while praising god.
In fact he is the second powerful angel still and very well 'known' to god and possibly Satan is the one, who 'knows' god the best :wink:
For me they seem still good pals, at least from the view of god :lol:
Michael was only temporarily powerful in letting Satan fall (in Satan's realm), as this only means that Satan lost some/most of his supernatural possibilities, as he got 'natural' :grin:
Michael is 'the shadow' of Satan in 'light', as Satan was before Michael. Perhaps they truly once were one and only got divided by this 'incident'.
Nothing to prove yet here.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Good, Evil, and Free Will [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5699333 - 06/01/06 12:08 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
Good, evil, and free will can be thought of as 3 points on a triangle.

Freedom depends on evil to exist.

Though good could easily destroy evil, it allows evil to exist for the sake of free will.

For in a universe that was nothing but good, there would be no freedom.

Though good and evil are enemies, they tolerate eachother in the name of freedom.

Though some blame good for the existence of evil, and some blame freedom for the existence of evil,

the real entity to blame for evil is the person who commits it without good cause!




you say God put you here to say these things.

So I ask you, why does your god plan to destroy evil once and for all, and make eternal heaven on earth if he actually needs evil?


Evil is like a malfunction on a car. You don't need to get your car broken to know that It was working once.
There are really no benefits of a broken car if your plan is to use it to drive yourself somewhere.
Same with evil. Life is a long drive to places, a motion, a progress, and evil is a malfunction that stops you from getting there.
When people get touched by evil, the crawl into some hole, die and stink there, without any power to heal themselfs.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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OfflineDoctorJ
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Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
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Re: Good, Evil, and Free Will [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5699487 - 06/01/06 12:40 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

why should there be heaven on earth?

there's already a heaven in heaven!

earth is a proving grounds

heaven is where those who pass their tests go. 

reincarnation on earth is for people who still have work to do

hell is for total fuckups who based their lives in torturing others

and outer space is for aliens

and humans who build good spaceships :smile:

Why would God destroy evil?  It exists for a good cause!

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Registered: 02/01/05
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Re: Good, Evil, and Free Will [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5699806 - 06/01/06 02:09 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
why should there be heaven on earth?

there's already a heaven in heaven!

earth is a proving grounds

heaven is where those who pass their tests go. 

reincarnation on earth is for people who still have work to do

hell is for total fuckups who based their lives in torturing others

and outer space is for aliens

and humans who build good spaceships :smile:

Why would God destroy evil?  It exists for a good cause!




Why do you ask me? It's god who plans to make heaven on earth

A human being is not just the spirit, but both the body and the spirit, and gods end plan is to return all souls to flesh and give them eternal bodies in the kingdom of heaven on earth.
Heaven is like a temp folder, the real life of human beings as was planed by god from the begining was to live for all eternity in flesh on perfect earth, as humans as real as you and I are, not as some movie-version of ghosts. And that is something god plans to return to after the armagedon, as it was before the first sin and the rebelion of devil.

It is even open to debate wheather Bible even implies that human consciosuness can exist without the body or not.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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