Home | Community | Message Board

Original Seeds Store
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | Next >  [ show all ]
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: How do religions start? [Re: Deviate]
    #5702963 - 06/02/06 05:31 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
At one time in my life I went through many of the mind gyrations that you are.

My problem was that I had fear of God and damnation deeply programmed into my psyche. It was a hell of a problem and took a lot of shamanic journeys and time to root it out.

With out fear I was free to choose my path. God doesn't concern me now. :thumbup:




Why would you fear God when Jesus taught that God was a god of love?  if God is just and merciful, what reason could there be to fear him? Did you fear the truth?




What a stupid question, considering that I said it was programmed into me. I was raised in a fundamentalist Baptist Hell and brimstone family. Do you understand now. :tongue: :rolleyes:

Did I fear the truth?  No.Do you fear reading and understanding before you post? :thumbdown:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: How do religions start? [Re: Icelander]
    #5704446 - 06/02/06 02:59 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

It seems reasonable to be afraid of the child-God of the Old Testament.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: How do religions start? [Re: Icelander]
    #5704487 - 06/02/06 03:13 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

More important to me than how a religion starts: how does a religion end?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: How do religions start? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5704510 - 06/02/06 03:19 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

a religion ends in finding the other shore.

?


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDeviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: How do religions start? [Re: Icelander]
    #5704543 - 06/02/06 03:29 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
At one time in my life I went through many of the mind gyrations that you are.

My problem was that I had fear of God and damnation deeply programmed into my psyche. It was a hell of a problem and took a lot of shamanic journeys and time to root it out.

With out fear I was free to choose my path. God doesn't concern me now. :thumbup:




Why would you fear God when Jesus taught that God was a god of love?  if God is just and merciful, what reason could there be to fear him? Did you fear the truth?




What a stupid question, considering that I said it was programmed into me. I was raised in a fundamentalist Baptist Hell and brimstone family. Do you understand now. :tongue: :rolleyes:

Did I fear the truth?  No.Do you fear reading and understanding before you post? :thumbdown:




You are responsible for your own mind. No one can program it other than you.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDeviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: How do religions start? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5704555 - 06/02/06 03:31 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:
It seems reasonable to be afraid of the child-God of the Old Testament.




Old Testament yes, it's unfortunate God doesn't smite people that often anymore.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: How do religions start? [Re: Deviate]
    #5704557 - 06/02/06 03:32 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

That's true when you are an adult. I was a child then and I was unable to rationally think about what was going into my mind. Then I had to do the difficult work of reprogramming myself as an adult. It took many years, but I did it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDeviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: How do religions start? [Re: Icelander]
    #5704608 - 06/02/06 03:50 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
That's true when you are an adult. I was a child then and I was unable to rationally think about what was going into my mind. Then I had to do the difficult work of reprogramming myself as an adult. It took many years, but I did it.




Why did it take so long? I guess I'm having a hard time understanding what there would be to fear from a god that is supposed to be just.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: How do religions start? [Re: Deviate]
    #5704623 - 06/02/06 03:57 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

You lack understanding of basic human programming. If programs are instilled at the right time in childhood with the correct intensity (I lived in fear constantly in an abusive household) it goes deep my friend.

Let me ask you. Why are you not enlightened? Why are you not living each and every dream you have to the absolute fullest? You are in charge of yourself. If it's so easy to reprogram yourself you must be perfection by now.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDeviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: How do religions start? [Re: Icelander]
    #5704641 - 06/02/06 04:03 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Because it's easy to change beliefs at the intellectual level but very difficult to change your underlying mental tendencies. I considered fear of god as mainly springing from the intelect (the idea that there is a god, and he is dangerous) rather than being a mental tendency. To me all it would take to change this would be to reason, if god is just I have no reason to fear him.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: How do religions start? [Re: Deviate]
    #5704659 - 06/02/06 04:10 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
At one time in my life I went through many of the mind gyrations that you are.

My problem was that I had fear of God and damnation deeply programmed into my psyche. It was a hell of a problem and took a lot of shamanic journeys and time to root it out.

With out fear I was free to choose my path. God doesn't concern me now. :thumbup:




Why would you fear God when Jesus taught that God was a god of love?  if God is just and merciful, what reason could there be to fear him? Did you fear the truth?




What a stupid question, considering that I said it was programmed into me. I was raised in a fundamentalist Baptist Hell and brimstone family. Do you understand now. :tongue: :rolleyes:

Did I fear the truth?  No.Do you fear reading and understanding before you post? :thumbdown:




You are responsible for your own mind. No one can program it other than you.



Why do kids believe in Santa Claus or waging Jihads?


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledorkus
don't look back
Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 1,511
Re: How do religions start? [Re: Deviate]
    #5704661 - 06/02/06 04:11 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

"I considered fear of god as mainly springing from the intel[l]ect...."

Very, very wrong. The subconscious knows no time. No common sense. The fear are rooted in the subconsious and stored in the body.

I bet you have alot of unresolved material there yourself, good sir. :smile:

Most of us do. Why do you think your mary jane trips turned sour? Didn't you leave the substance out of fear?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: How do religions start? [Re: Deviate]
    #5704670 - 06/02/06 04:14 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Then you don't understand child psychology. Childen take threats seriously, (as in you are going to hell to burn alone for eternity)especially when coupled with constant emotional abuse.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: How do religions start? [Re: dorkus]
    #5704674 - 06/02/06 04:15 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Because it's easy to change beliefs at the intellectual level but very difficult to change your underlying mental tendencies. I considered fear of god as mainly springing from the intelect (the idea that there is a god, and he is dangerous) rather than being a mental tendency. To me all it would take to change this would be to reason, if god is just I have no reason to fear him.



for me fear of god is an intense and irrational phobia with the caveat of it being impossible to overcome, because God will kill you forever and ever....

it's basically this:
you take the intrinsic fear of death in humans and thrust it upon them... you forge this with an ideology so that every time fear of death is elicited the ULTIMATE fear of GOD is elicited... and the two are inseparable... and while they are terrified of death you convince them that this fear will never ever end and be accompanied with intense eternal agony.

instead of being afraid of your mortality you are afraid of unending torment... just like a dog drools when a bell rings. God is woven intricately into the most intense fear imaginable and he stays there, because that's where the fire and brimstone sermons PLANT him.

He is not wedged into the intellect. Hell is not discussed intellectually.... it is a graphic process of brainwashing and overt conditioning..... it is therefore very hard to uproot.

undergoing a sermon at the right age with the right mind is a bit about like being marched into the showers at a death camp only instead of being gassed at the end they give you hugs and tell you that they love you.

except there is no physical threat of death... but the psychological threat is primed and completely active, it overides all sanity and all rational thinking... the physiological process of fear of death is initiated psychologically.... and you have people SWEARING on authority of GOD who you are tuaght to believe intellectually... that this is how it is... because you believe intellectually in God from normal upbringing suddenly you have a man so serious in agony and fear that he is telling you SAVE YOUSRELF, SAVE YOURSELF IT IS SO TERRIBLE.

I mean there's no difference between him telling you you're going to hell to be damned than there is a news reporter saying a comet is going to hit your town in 5 minutes.

But then he offers you a way out, and you pray... and your emotions flip flop into religious ecstacy as finally you are given the way out of this GOD DRIVEN FEAR.

the only thing it isn't God driven fear... it's cult driven fear... it's brainwashing....


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


Edited by leery11 (06/02/06 04:18 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDeviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: How do religions start? [Re: dorkus]
    #5704676 - 06/02/06 04:16 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

dr_mandelbrot said:
"I considered fear of god as mainly springing from the intel[l]ect...."

Very, very wrong. The subconscious knows no time. No common sense. The fear are rooted in the subconsious and stored in the body.




I don't think its necessarily true that fear always persists once the threat is realized to be non existent. ever felt that feeling of relief when you realize something you feared for very long was in reality perfectly benign?

Quote:

I bet you have alot of unresolved material there yourself, good sir. :smile:




well duh, i have tons of unresolved mental problems.

Quote:

Most of us do. Why do you think your mary jane trips turned sour? Didn't you leave the substance out of fear?







I left the substance because I realized how much it was harming me, not out of fear. I weathered some incredibly awful trips with it without succombing to fear.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: How do religions start? [Re: leery11]
    #5704684 - 06/02/06 04:18 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

leery11 said:
Quote:

Deviate said:
Because it's easy to change beliefs at the intellectual level but very difficult to change your underlying mental tendencies. I considered fear of god as mainly springing from the intelect (the idea that there is a god, and he is dangerous) rather than being a mental tendency. To me all it would take to change this would be to reason, if god is just I have no reason to fear him.



for me fear of god is an intense and irrational phobia with the caveat of it being impossible to overcome, because God will kill you forever and ever....

it's basically this:
you take the intrinsic fear of death in humans and thrust it upon them... you forge this with an ideology so that every time fear of death is elicited the ULTIMATE fear of GOD is elicited... and the two are inseparable... and while they are terrified of death you convince them that this fear will never ever end and be accompanied with intense eternal agony.

instead of being afraid of your mortality you are afraid of unending torment... just like a dog drools when a bell rings. God is woven intricately into the most intense fear imaginable and he stays there, because that's where the fire and brimstone sermons PLANT him.

He is not wedged into the intellect. Hell is not discussed intellectually.... it is a graphic process of brainwashing and overt conditioning..... it is therefore very hard to uproot.




Thanks for explaining this, so much better than I have.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDeviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: How do religions start? [Re: Icelander]
    #5704685 - 06/02/06 04:18 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Then you don't understand child psychology. Childen take threats seriously, (as in you are going to hell to burn alone for eternity)especially when coupled with constant emotional abuse.




I wasn't aware you were emotionally abused and I understand now. I'm sorry you had to go through something like that.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: How do religions start? [Re: Deviate]
    #5704693 - 06/02/06 04:23 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

basically they hack into the fear center of your brain and plant a button in it that can be pushed at any time against your will.

if you could view, symbollically as if tripping, the process of fear indoctrination it would probably look something like that.

maybe a vampire digging into your brain, scaring the hell out of you, then attaching part of his essence to your brain to stalk you from afar.

Fear is authorities ultimate weapon. Planes only hit the WTC twice. We witnessed the act hundreds of times on television. Fear was what allowed the invasion of Iraq. Fear is what allows the war on drugs, which is just as inexcusable as slavery or any other foolish American endeavour.... just as ridiculous, harmful, and EVIL, just as vindicative and senseless... but fear of our children's safety allows it to happen. (incidentally are children are unsafe only becasue of the drug war's existence).

Fear is what got him back in office. Fear is what kept people voting for the "lesser of two evils" instead of electing the third party officials they truely believed in.

How many times did you see "WMD attack in America?" as a credible news headline on cable news leading up to the Iraq war? That was the IMMEDIATE topic of sepculation after 9/11....

Fear is the great motivator. It's sick and sad......... how free we would be if liberated from such things. Hell is something the preachers only throw out when they want you back in their power....... bird flu, scapegoats such as Sadama bin Hussein..... etc....

just thrown out now and then to keep us in our place... to keep us following a doctrine.

It wouldn't be surprising if the church in the middle ages completely and totally invented hell... many Christians who have studied the Bible in Greek context state that there is no eternal hell, that it is mistranslation and misunderstanding and abused by authority.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: How do religions start? [Re: Deviate]
    #5704695 - 06/02/06 04:25 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Me too. :frown: Yet I did and in spite of it I have managed to reprogram that part of my beliefs. It did take a fuck of a lot of years. Many times when I thought it was gone, it would resurface in times of heavy stress. It's a major accomplishment in my life.

This is the very reason you will see me strongly dispute anyone here who tries to claim God is going to punish people for not believing in him. It's my personal commitment to speak against this kind of bullying, just in case there are others (and I know there are) who are still striving courageously to remove this debilitating fear from their lives.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: How do religions start? [Re: Icelander]
    #5704704 - 06/02/06 04:27 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I think ultimately a free mind, a repgraommed mind...

is a mind empty. A mind in meditation. That's how truth surfaces, how God surfaces, how false prophets and devils fall out of your psyche.

anything else is just replacing some form of dogma with another form of dogma isn't it?

I'm not sure. free will is such a strange concept... I am not sure if it exists.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Why religion obscures the light of God.
( 1 2 3 4 all )
infidelGOD 4,076 79 07/03/23 03:39 PM
by Moses_Davidson
* Cults and Religions- what's the difference, really?
( 1 2 all )
Sclorch 3,070 20 03/06/03 06:43 AM
by Strumpling
* My view on religion . . . djd586 636 4 04/16/03 05:38 PM
by SlapnutRob
* Drugs, and their effect upon Religion... Adamist 1,449 8 10/13/02 01:02 AM
by Xlea321
* More questions about Religion
( 1 2 all )
shroom-girlie 4,037 24 08/07/01 10:50 AM
by CosmicJoke
* Eastern Religions IV: Vedism Kremlin 697 1 11/05/03 05:15 AM
by Spokesman
* How do you get a religion officially sanctioned?
( 1 2 all )
ChiefThunderbong 1,563 22 10/08/03 05:21 AM
by gnrm23
* Is the origins of religion just a form of science? Grav 717 3 09/13/02 08:56 AM
by WhiskeyClone

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
5,160 topic views. 0 members, 13 guests and 3 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.033 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 15 queries.