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Offlineevolprim
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Registered: 05/07/06
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humans in the big picture
    #5696812 - 05/31/06 09:27 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

hey everyone.. i havent made any posts in the phil & spir forum yet so hello to everyone

now id like to discuss human beings in relation to other species on Earth from a moral, physical, and spiritual standpoint
these are just my opinions, i am not a philosopher and dont have a PHD and am open to hear any arguments

lets consider the following

humans are simply biologically efficent, chemically balanced, physics following creatures (for the most part)

there is no "higher power" all "phenomena" will eventually be able to be explained with science and reason, "spirituality " is mumbo jumbo

humans are simply ANIMALS living on this earth
we are animals with larger brains, and opposable thumbs than our close friends the chimpanzees

when we die it is simply because our biological processes no longer function and we dont go to a "heaven" or "hell" to be judged by a "god"

we are by no means the judges on morality as we are simply animals and we should not be held any more responsbile for making moral decisions than a chimp or chicken is

we ought to do with our short lives what we want and realize that all we have is the fleeting ~30000 days on this planet

humans get sad thinking about this so they turn to dogmatic religions to tell them it is not the case

**important note** while i dont necessarily believe all this id like everyone to consider that this very well could be a possibilty and id like to see if anyone agrees or disagrees with it


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: humans in the big picture [Re: evolprim]
    #5696845 - 05/31/06 09:31 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Welcome to P&S. :mushroom2: You seem quite sane are you sure you want to post here. :grin:

I especially like this one. we ought to do with our short lives what we want and realize that all we have is the fleeting ~30000 days on this planet


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleit stars saddam
Satan

Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 15,571
Loc: Spahn Ranch
Re: humans in the big picture [Re: evolprim]
    #5696847 - 05/31/06 09:31 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I agree.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: humans in the big picture [Re: evolprim]
    #5696895 - 05/31/06 09:39 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I agree with most of it, or at least the general idea that we humans are really no more than smart monkeys :wink:

I think that science has come far enough for me to feel comfortable in saying that we humans, nor any other life on Earth (and, presumably, elsewhere in the universe) had to be "created" by any being of any kind. Humans, and all life, are simply a product of the natural workings of this universe.

With that in mind, I certainly don't think that we humans are anything to rant and rave about. On the other hand, we have accomplished much more in our own way than any other form of life that has existed on the Earth. Destructive as we are, no other single species has caused such change before - we have literally been to terraforming (or techno-forming?) the Earth to suit our own needs as a species. Of course if it wasn't "humans" doing all this, at some point some other species would evolve that could - so we really are nothing special.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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Invisibleit stars saddam
Satan

Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 15,571
Loc: Spahn Ranch
Re: humans in the big picture [Re: evolprim]
    #5696904 - 05/31/06 09:41 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

30000 days... Damn...

I better not waste a single one of them.


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Offlineevolprim
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Re: humans in the big picture [Re: it stars saddam]
    #5696924 - 05/31/06 09:45 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

haha yeah that number really shocked me too.. i was doing the math not too long ago and its a lot less time than one would assume

that is however considering you live to ~82 years old and are ZERO years old right now!!!

if you are of age to be allowed to use the shroomery its about 23000 so ENJOY


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Invisibleit stars saddam
Satan

Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 15,571
Loc: Spahn Ranch
Re: humans in the big picture [Re: evolprim]
    #5696951 - 05/31/06 09:50 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

evolprim said:
if you are of age to be allowed to use the shroomery its about 23000 so ENJOY




Thank you, I will.


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OfflineSchwammel
Auk

Registered: 12/10/05
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Re: humans in the big picture [Re: evolprim]
    #5697012 - 05/31/06 10:01 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

If you believe you Can..or if you believe you Cant...youll be correct.
and that depends on who you beleive you are...

if you beleive you don't exist
then the scenario goes
If "somebody that doesn't exist" believes he Can...or/
if "somebody that doesn't exist" believes he Cant...
that "somebody" will be correct.


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OfflineSchwammel
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Re: humans in the big picture [Re: Schwammel]
    #5697038 - 05/31/06 10:05 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

isn't that waht descartes was hinting at

" i think therfore your not"


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OfflineThe_Hobbit
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Re: humans in the big picture [Re: Schwammel]
    #5697097 - 05/31/06 10:18 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

I used to think that, but then I realized that there is right and wrong, which necessitates some kind of spiritual connection (persay). Whether that is God doing his thing or just the universe as it is, working towards a higher function - I cannot say.


--------------------
Smoking my hobbit leaf...
Please keep in mind that I am just a human being. Please read my posts carefully and interpret their meaning for yourself.


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Offlineevolprim
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Re: humans in the big picture [Re: The_Hobbit]
    #5697135 - 05/31/06 10:24 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

who is to say there is a definite right or wrong

morality is completely subjective and is another thing that humans have created so that we can interact with one another..

"god" didnt make morality and if there was a god it would be forgiving of the humans for making moral mistakes


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Invisibleit stars saddam
Satan

Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 15,571
Loc: Spahn Ranch
Re: humans in the big picture [Re: evolprim]
    #5697198 - 05/31/06 10:42 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

“Fruit of the terror of some and the frailty of others, that abominable phantom is of no use to the terrestrial scheme and would infallibly be injurious to it, since the will of God would have to be just and should never be able to ally itself to the essential injustices decreed by Nature; since He would constantly have to will the good, while Nature must desire it only as a compensation for the evil which serves her laws; since it would be necessary that he, God, exert his influence at all times, while Nature, one of whose laws is this perpetual activity, could only find herself in competition with and unceasing opposition to Him. Am I to hear in reply, that God and Nature are one? ‘Tis an absurdity. The thing created cannot be the creative being’s equal. Might the pocket watch be the watchmaker? Very well then, they will continue, Nature is nothing, it is God who is all. Another stupidity! There are necessarily two things in the universe: the creative agent and the being created; now, to identify this creative agent is the single task before us, the one question to which one has got to provide a reply.

If matter acts, is moved by combinations unknown to us, if movement is inherent in Nature; if, in short, she alone, by reason of her energy, is able to create, produce, preserve, maintain, hold in equilibrium within the immense plains of space all the spheres that stand before our gaze and whose uniform march, unvarying, fills us with awe and admiration, what then becomes of the need to seek out a foreign agent, since this active faculty essentially is to be found in Nature herself, who is naught else than matter in action? Do you suppose your deific chimera will shed light upon anything? I defy anyone to prove him to me. It being supposed that I am mistaken upon matter’s internal faculties, I have before me, at least, nothing worse than a difficulty. What do you do for me when you offer your God to me? Nothing but offering one more god. And how would you have me acknowledge as cause of what I do not understand, something that I understand even less?”


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OfflineSchwammel
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Re: humans in the big picture [Re: evolprim]
    #5697209 - 05/31/06 10:44 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

"morality is completely subjective "

Hilters morality for killing the Jews certainly must of been subjective.

therefore our morality for condemning him must also be subjective.

what we have here is conflicting morals/

and gods got nothing to do with it




"


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Invisibleit stars saddam
Satan

Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 15,571
Loc: Spahn Ranch
Re: humans in the big picture [Re: Schwammel]
    #5697223 - 05/31/06 10:46 PM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Schwammel said:
"morality is completely subjective "

Hilters morality for killing the Jews certainly must of been subjective.

therefore our morality for condemning him must also be subjective.




Yeah?


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OfflineThe_Hobbit
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Re: humans in the big picture [Re: evolprim]
    #5697678 - 06/01/06 12:26 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

evolprim said:
who is to say there is a definite right or wrong

morality is completely subjective and is another thing that humans have created so that we can interact with one another..

"god" didnt make morality and if there was a god it would be forgiving of the humans for making moral mistakes



My opinion is that morality isn't inherently subjective, but it is subjective to each person. One can use logic to decide what's right and wrong, just like you can use logic to say what's 1 + 3.

I don't doubt that, if there is a god, he is forgiving. However, I do doubt that there is no price to be payed for lack of morality.

P.S. Like I said, this is my opinion. I considered the points you've described in your last few posts, but then I came to a realization about the nature of things, which brings me to this point. =)


--------------------
Smoking my hobbit leaf...
Please keep in mind that I am just a human being. Please read my posts carefully and interpret their meaning for yourself.


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Offlinecapliberty
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Registered: 04/23/06
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Re: humans in the big picture [Re: The_Hobbit]
    #5697818 - 06/01/06 12:56 AM (17 years, 7 months ago)

---My opinion is that morality isn't inherently subjective, but it is subjective to each person. One can use logic to decide what's right and wrong, just like you can use logic to say what's 1 + 3.---

I tend to agree with this, morality is basically like a guided missle but not one that destroys us but preserves us from counter attack.


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